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Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So anyone got any good anti-Harlequin tips? I'm facing off against a Halequin troop this weekend, and I'm just playing my Biker List. What really worries me is their new Sniper unit, I don't know if he's gonna be using 1-3, but I know he's bringing at least 1. I'm guessing with the Relic gun and the Warlord trait that gives him exploding 6s, and MW on 6s. With the Weaver of Fate thing he can auto-turn one of his misses into a 6. How do we counter snipers as Custodes? They bypass Look out sir, so Wardens are out. They have character targeting, I guess I'm just gonna park my captain behind a LOS terrain but within 6" of my shooters, and hope?

Snipers do not bypass the Warden bodyguard rule.

Yeah, bodyguard rule isn't Look Out, Sir and currently blocks snipers.

That said, Emperor's Chosen Characters don't really care about Harlie snipers I think. Might want to take half your bikes as hurricane bolters to just plow the clown bodies down.

Explodo sniper actually is an issue for our characters. He wont flat out delete them, but he will chip 2-3 wounds off per turn which is an issue.

He gets 3 shots, but he makes one a 6 automatically which teslas into 3 hits and if he rolls a 6 those also tesla. So he's getting on average anywhere from 4-9 hits per turn on your characters with a str6 ap-1 gun.

He's one of their better options for dealing with us.

There's a Sniper that makes 3 shots? The Vindicare Assassin must be jealous

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
There's a Sniper that makes 3 shots? The Vindicare Assassin must be jealous

So the Death Jester has an upgrade where a roll of 6 to hit gets three shots. Combine the army ability to get 6s and it's fairly easily to kill a squad or weakened HQ.

Ok, so then Death Jester has a S6, Ap2 Dmg2 gun with 3 shots. He can get a pivotal role where 6s to hit are 3 extra hits and he is often played with a warlord trait where he can make one hit, wound or save a 6, which is then mostly used to turn a hit roll into a 6s, thus guaranteeing extra hits on one dice.

So he does what...about 4 damage to a custodes HQ? That's not bad really. But again, Wardens stop shooting him at HQs entirely, so it's not that bad I guess.

I don't think the Death Jester is a big problem for Custodes, but he can outright delete characters from other factions like Sisters and Admech.

You are all forgetting if he rolls a 6 THAT wound becomes an unstoppable wound. Even FNP is not allowed on it. It just goes through. So that's a thing. A New thing. Fun.

Granted this is all from the Auspex Tactics video review of his rules, but yeah, he can get a relic that makes him 3 flat damage I think, so that's a dead captain easily.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You are all forgetting if he rolls a 6 THAT wound becomes an unstoppable wound. Even FNP is not allowed on it. It just goes through. So that's a thing. A New thing. Fun.

Granted this is all from the Auspex Tactics video review of his rules, but yeah, he can get a relic that makes him 3 flat damage I think, so that's a dead captain easily.

Wait what rule is that again?

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You are all forgetting if he rolls a 6 THAT wound becomes an unstoppable wound. Even FNP is not allowed on it. It just goes through. So that's a thing. A New thing. Fun.

Granted this is all from the Auspex Tactics video review of his rules, but yeah, he can get a relic that makes him 3 flat damage I think, so that's a dead captain easily.

Wait what rule is that again?

]

Apparently it's Favor of Chegorogh (SP?) and it's 3 extra hits per 6, not ignores FNP. Excuse me. I was wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFS_CEmVXB8

Oh jesus. GW Rules team, go home, you're drunk.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/23/cook-up-your-space-marines-with-the-flick-of-a-switch-using-the-new-and-improved-fire-prism/

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Oh jesus. GW Rules team, go home, you're drunk.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/23/cook-up-your-space-marines-with-the-flick-of-a-switch-using-the-new-and-improved-fire-prism/

This is seriously old news, and honestly not even close to the strongest thing in the Aeldari book. Kind of like how Tau Hammerheads turned out to be kind of a nothingburger.

The Aeldari that Custodes should be worried about are the Harlequins. Based on the latest Goonhammer Competitive Innovations article, they are looking extremely strong right now.

Yeah, what is the consensus on anti-harlequin tactics? Include a detachment of inquisitors to deny the Doom/whatever eldar spells, and pray they don't get shot off the table?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, what is the consensus on anti-harlequin tactics? Include a detachment of inquisitors to deny the Doom/whatever eldar spells, and pray they don't get shot off the table?

Mass Sagittarum or Hurricane Bolters are what I've been hearing. Hard match up regardless though.

So charge their transports and melee? Or go 2 Missile/2 HB for bike squads? I feel like no matter what I'm using I'm getting silly outcomes.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So charge their transports and melee? Or go 2 Missile/2 HB for bike squads? I feel like no matter what I'm using I'm getting silly outcomes.

Depends which loadout you take.

If you're taking lots of Sag, you can still have some melta missiles on the bikes to help crack the transport. You can do a fair amount of chip damage with small arms fire though (since Sag are Heavy Bolter profile).

If going Hurricane Bolters (the less popular of the two options just from what I've seen) you pop Rendax and wreck them with auto-wounds on 6's to Hit.

Lots of people seem to be leaning towards Shadow Keepers over Emperor's Chosen now too. A big part of that is Shadow Keepers are seen as having the edge in mirror matchups, but the -1S and -1A on Harlies is also considered good. Makes melee not quite as scary. Also gives you access to a fight last option.

For harlies take the shieldhost (Emissaries) that ignores all modifiers and always strikes first - it counters alot of their plays.

Don't they have inherent "strike last"? Or some such shenanigan?

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, what is the consensus on anti-harlequin tactics? Include a detachment of inquisitors to deny the Doom/whatever eldar spells, and pray they don't get shot off the table?

Mass Sagittarum or Hurricane Bolters are what I've been hearing. Hard match up regardless though.

I played, and barely beat Harlies this weekend in the finals of a small 16 player event... the guy cheating a LOT with misplays of new rules did no favors, but what helped immensely was running Shadowkeepers. I went with my stock 3x 3 Sagitarum, but they are too costly to be truly great anti-Harlequin tech.

I am seriously considering dropping one unit of Salvo bikes for Hurricane Bolter bikes, and switching the Salvo on my Bike Captain to Hurricane as well.

I drastically over-killed Tau in an earlier round and wanted more volume of fire throughout the day. Sag to scoop up shield-drones, plus the other Salvo bikes would've been more than enough.

 WisdomLS wrote:
For harlies take the shieldhost (Emissaries) that ignores all modifiers and always strikes first - it counters alot of their plays.

They and Shadowkeepers are definitely my go-to for Hosts. Just overall universal and not going to be nerfed hahaha

Also a Lockwarden w/Stasis Oubliette absolutely wrecks Harlequin, specifically any player who thinks they're building a cheeky melee beatstick character. That on a Blade Champion massively helped me in that match-up.

Does anyone have a good anti-jetbike method? I'm playing this weekend against my friend's all bike eldar list. Thinking just spam missiles and call it done. It's gonna be a real whoever rolls first is likely going to win. I think he's going full Shining spears/Vypers, with star lances. He's coming loaded for a bear hunt.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, what is the consensus on anti-harlequin tactics? Include a detachment of inquisitors to deny the Doom/whatever eldar spells, and pray they don't get shot off the table?

Mass Sagittarum or Hurricane Bolters are what I've been hearing. Hard match up regardless though.

I played, and barely beat Harlies this weekend in the finals of a small 16 player event... the guy cheating a LOT with misplays of new rules did no favors, but what helped immensely was running Shadowkeepers. I went with my stock 3x 3 Sagitarum, but they are too costly to be truly great anti-Harlequin tech.

I am seriously considering dropping one unit of Salvo bikes for Hurricane Bolter bikes, and switching the Salvo on my Bike Captain to Hurricane as well.

I drastically over-killed Tau in an earlier round and wanted more volume of fire throughout the day. Sag to scoop up shield-drones, plus the other Salvo bikes would've been more than enough.

So I've heard good things about Sag into drones. It's good to have some confirmation!

sagg are good damage into crisis squads, but they are comparitively slow and the crisis delete them fairly easily.

How they thought crisis suits were worth the same points as a saggitarum is laughable.

Sagg get better BS and WS, better armor and LD, ob sec, and better melee.

Crisis suits get 3-4x better shooting, WAY better mobility (fly +4" and auto advance 6), better buffs, better durability on the unit (shield drones, 4+++ on unit leader).

They are definately undercosted by about 5-10pts depending on loadout.




ATM the best shield hosts into harlies is emissaries and solar watch. Shadowkeepers would be good into Dark and twilight saedeth, but noones taking them over light.

Yeah, so my Bike List got straight up deleted by Turn 3. Harlies ain't no-bodies fool. They need to be heavily restricted. My Shield captain was the last survivor, because he was camping my backfield. Foot Captain with a sword and shield. Not Bike Captain.

Point in case - 9th is silly right now, and until we see 10th, or the game gets a few steps closer to even, Bike List is going back on the shelf.

Harlequins with a casual 81% winrate at adepticon 90% without mirror. Voidweavers are totally broken.
Worst placed voidweaver list 44th.

Has anyone advise for how to deal with them? I would say play the mission, trying to win bei killing them is not going to work.

That’s wild

im currently 2/1 against light saedeth with voidweavers atm.

One of the wins was against an admittedly new guy with little experience using harlies though.


I play emissaries though, so out of all the shield hosts, I play into them the best.

What's a good EI concept? Thinking of changing to EI or SK. EI for early touching of Tau and Fight First against Harlequins, SK for mirror. So far I included a Jetbike Cap and Trajann, 2x5 Sags for pushing, 1x3 Shields for staying on home objective and get a 0+ against no-LOS shooting. Then 2x3 salvo bikes, 1 Galatus, 1 Achillus, 3 Spear Vens. I have zero idea how to play with this, I guess Sags do the advance pushing and chaff cleaning, Castellan + Into the Darkness salvos go for the kill early after deploying them first and redeploying to the opponents weak flank.

With EI you will want to leverage Into the Darkness so you either go full tilt with a 6 man vertus squad, or stick with 3 man squads.

You can certainly try to be janky and take a 6 man venetari squad comboed with Kaptaris to first turn charge and potentially tie up multiple units of your opponent army as well.

EI is one of the shield hosts who will take Auric Mortalis a bit more often. Being able to first turn get a 6 man bike unit up the field, shoot, and charge a potential auric mortalis for 15pts on turn one is something you can huild into your list. However be away some opponents will be able to screen or throw said unit into reserve to stop that plan.

I personally just take 3 man units to reduce the cost of both the strat and the potential YOLO sacrificial unit.


Standout units in Emissaries are both saggitarum and venetari. With conversoi as the favored ka'tah, you can potentially Advance, fire, and raise banners on turn 1 with the infantry units.

You can also take BEL and DTH for another secondary wombo combo turn one. Simply boost your Bike captain into your opponents deployment zone and deploy teleport homers turn one. Your opponent would have to dedicate a fair amount of his army to taking him out or you gain 6 points. You can furthur conflate this problem by having another uniit also in your opponents lines with Into the darkness and have a praetorian plate captain ready to intervene on your opponents turn should he charge the bike cap.


Emissaries has alot of play in tournaments because of the varied secondary combos, and the fact that its probably the strongest shield host into harlequins atm.

Don't forget, Abandoned Sanctuaries mission also shuts off Into Darkness. It's one of the reasons I didn't go EI myself. You have to stay in your DZ to start on that one.

It does, but into the darkness is really only something you use if you go first anyway. If you go second you dont really wanna move up closer to the enemy unless your terrain allows you to completely hide somehow.

Prepare for it, expect it only half the time. Its a tool you have to leverage, and its something your opponent has to think about. Just having it available, means he has to deploy very defensibly.