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None of my buddies who played in it even know, they just said a Nurgle list went 5-0, but we assumed there were plenty of others that also went 5-0.

Tourney organizers did everything by hand, ie apparently lists/pairings and such were posted to a wall. They didn’t use any third party app (Ie Best Coast Pairing). Its been a recurring theme with Adepticon AoS through the years. I figured this year would be different, seeing as its under new leadership (I believe? Could be wrong), but they kept it old school.

Adepticon AoS twitter account: “Its true, we are using paper. We’ve unfortunately seen some of the available software fail many times causing long delays and simply chose to avoid that for this year. Its something we do plan to address for 2023”

I’ve not seen anyone gather the lists in a single spot just yet. A few years ago the top 16 or 20 lists were posted a week or two after the event.

On one hand, kind of lame for those of us that like to analyze such things. I’m more interested in the middle rankings myself. There are alot of good stories in a 3-2 or 4-1 record in a big tourney.

On the other hand, I know feth all about running a tourney, so I have no idea why they make the decisions they make, its their prerogative.

Ah yes, I always loved the excitement of seeing the wall mounted table assignments!

Guess there are pros and cons to both. I'm guessing the Honest Wargamer will somehow get ahold of the nitty gritty, just didn't see it on his blog yet.

Wondering how Sons of Behemat fared with the new 'balancing' Battlescroll Primary Targets thing. Or I wonder if that was even in effect?

Guess I'll just hunker down and paint my Bonesplitterz for Midwest Meltdown in July regardless of how things did at Adepticon. I'm looking forward to Wurgogg pandemonium! Unless those get nerfed before then. Then I'll just be grudgy and bring my Dispossessed and not give a crap at all. Honestly the lowest ranking tables always seem the most fun and diverse.

I look forward to reading about the new meta for 2022's crucible.

I will never blame TOs for wanting to avoid Best Coast Pairings.

Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

People being people they are human and make mistakes.

Being an event organizer is a thankless and grimy filthy job where you get to get screamed at whenever you make a mistake.

I don't envy those people, I've done it myself for years and years and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 nels1031 wrote:
Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

There's more; from what I've heard they didn't do any list verification so players could (and did) change their lists between games without it being caught.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

There's more; from what I've heard they didn't do any list verification so players could (and did) change their lists between games without it being caught.

Wow. Has the community gotten that bad that they are just brazenly cheating at the biggest events?

Just wow.

I mean I guess if you aint cheatin you aint tryin right?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

There's more; from what I've heard they didn't do any list verification so players could (and did) change their lists between games without it being caught.

WHAT!??

Insane.

Ah ha! That would explain how one of my gaming buddies got so mad.

He said a dude changed his Grand Strategy (to one he would have achieved) on the turn-in sheet and only realized it afterwards by looking at the other guy's army list sheet again (which had one he did not achieve). That cost him the game.

If he wasn't playing Teclis and 30 Sentinels I would have felt more bad for him

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

There's more; from what I've heard they didn't do any list verification so players could (and did) change their lists between games without it being caught.

Wow. Unacceptable if accurate.

nevermind

As someone who struggled to keep up with the tournament scene for over four years. Just don't bother. Play local, play friendly and your experience will be way, way better.

In short, the Tournaments aren't worth it.

 Togusa wrote:
As someone who struggled to keep up with the tournament scene for over four years. Just don't bother. Play local, play friendly and your experience will be way, way better.

In short, the Tournaments aren't worth it.

The vast majority of AoS tournaments have no drama whatsoever. This is the only 3rd edition tournament that's had any problems as far as I'm aware and I follow the news every week.

Chikout wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
As someone who struggled to keep up with the tournament scene for over four years. Just don't bother. Play local, play friendly and your experience will be way, way better.

In short, the Tournaments aren't worth it.

The vast majority of AoS tournaments have no drama whatsoever. This is the only 3rd edition tournament that's had any problems as far as I'm aware and I follow the news every week.

Ya, it was an honest mistake (whether it could've been avoided/caught faster is up for debate) and there may have been a few bad actors that took advantage of lapses in oversight (as Ninth mentioned above), but its not indicative of the overall scene.

I can respect the mindset that doesn't like tourney's as a thing or has been burnt out by the whole tourney "culture", but I wouldn't advocate avoiding tourney's altogether, personally

Chikout wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
As someone who struggled to keep up with the tournament scene for over four years. Just don't bother. Play local, play friendly and your experience will be way, way better.

In short, the Tournaments aren't worth it.

The vast majority of AoS tournaments have no drama whatsoever. This is the only 3rd edition tournament that's had any problems as far as I'm aware and I follow the news every week.

Not drama, the WAAC mentality is absurd in AoS. All of my competitive games of AoS 2nd and 3rd have ended turn 1 or turn 2. It's just not fun to spend half an hour setting up to get 22 minutes of playtime and then the game is over.

All of my competitive games of AoS 2nd and 3rd have ended turn 1 or turn 2.

Thats the intended game state.

That was most of my games as well. By turn 2 you usually could pack it up. It was almost as much time unpacking and packing and driving as it was playing.

 nels1031 wrote:

Chikout wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
As someone who struggled to keep up with the tournament scene for over four years. Just don't bother. Play local, play friendly and your experience will be way, way better.

In short, the Tournaments aren't worth it.

The vast majority of AoS tournaments have no drama whatsoever. This is the only 3rd edition tournament that's had any problems as far as I'm aware and I follow the news every week.

Ya, it was an honest mistake (whether it could've been avoided/caught faster is up for debate) and there may have been a few bad actors that took advantage of lapses in oversight (as Ninth mentioned above), but its not indicative of the overall scene.

I can respect the mindset that doesn't like tourney's as a thing or has been burnt out by the whole tourney "culture", but I wouldn't advocate avoiding tourney's altogether, personally

As someone who judges them, I would. At least in the US, can't speak for the culture/community of other countries. Bitchy, poor sportsmanship players are a guarantee, and I would say at least a third of players at tournaments are cheating. If not more--there is little to no oversight and relies almost entirely on the opponent catching them. If you don't know your opponent's rules and they conveniently 'misinterpret' them? Oh well. While a lot of top players are perfectly good people playing upstanding games, a large number are getting their consistently strong scoring through 'accidentally' getting rules wrong, fudging half inches of range, moving back line models too far on charges or pile ins... it's the little diet-cheating stuff that adds up. It is rampant and FLG does nothing.

Can't imagine how bad it must be for 40k, since the competitive toxicity there is even worse.

 nels1031 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Seems going old school bit the AoS A-con organizers in the butt.

After discovering an error they had to re-organize the winners, which apparently meant that the original winners invite to the GW finale tourney had to be rescinded and someone else is going in their place. Honest mistake, but that's a big bummer for the original person declared winner.

I remember at the launch of AoS3 a prominent tourney organizer of the past said that he didn't envy what tourney organizers would have to wade through with this new edition.

There's more; from what I've heard they didn't do any list verification so players could (and did) change their lists between games without it being caught.

Wow. Unacceptable if accurate.

Also impractical. I don't care what the prizes were, painting and transporting more models isn't worth it.

Is it really that impractical, to the mind of someone who would cheat to win?

I know they're a gutter-dwelling army, but it makes for the easiest example I can think of.

I'm playing Kruleboyz. My last match was against Skink-spamming Seraphon. I took a fairly standard KB list against it.

My next match is against Sons of Behemat. I exchange some hobgrots or whatever other units out and sneaky slide some Killbows in to the list instead. Two or three extra models to transport?

Not a big deal really. The Killteam/Dominion lids I use for short-distance transport have more than a quarter of their space remaining for nearly any of my 2k point army lists.

Considering the internet fame you get from winning a big Grand Touranment like Adepticon, I think its well within many peoples' frame of mind to cheat and bring extra models to do so.

Once you win an adepticon you basically become an authority on how the game should be played "at the highest level", access to monetary gain through sites where people pay you $100-$200 a pop to build their list, podcast patreon, youtube ad revenue, etc.

For many people, winning a big ticket game like Sigmar or 40k at Adepticon is like a winning lottery ticket.

And yeah - absolutely a good portion of the competitive community cheats if they can get away with it. I was a TO and league organizer for over a decade and we had a dozen or more people banned for being caught cheating in several ways, from loaded dice to changing army lists out under the table, to constantly putting in more models in their units than they should by "accident", to playing rules wrong on purpose to gain an advantage. Its a whole other level when you get to an Adepticon.

Not the majority maybe. But a good portion.

I've told the dice cheating story many times and its worth telling again.

At Baltimore GT some 20 years ago a guy was showing everyone how to cheat rolling 2d6 and guaranteeing the outcome every time.

And the dice were not loaded. He just knew how to roll dice to get what he wanted. And his parting words after we all watched were "and I guarantee there are people here right now that are going to do this same thing in their games tomorrow".

Cheating with dice like that is hard to catch but I've known a lot of people with supernatural dice luck where the supernatural was really them knowing how to roll dice in their favor since no one makes them bank off walls or anything like casinos do.

At least so far, I haven't been able to find a #1 list let alone the winning player's name. so so much for the big fame of the top table

But I also think that some portion of people attending big tournaments aren't opposed to cheating. Probably a small amount in most cases, but they're there.

The post covid world has been interesting. I know before Covid, we would have known the winners of sigmar and 40k pretty much day of and the lists pushed out next day or a few days later, with podcast interviews of said individuals happening later that same week.

 Rihgu wrote:
At least so far, I haven't been able to find a #1 list let alone the winning player's name. so so much for the big fame of the top table

I only know this through twitter, which is solely dedicated to AoS hobby. And without the controversy, I probably wouldn't have known any of the facts below:

At the end of the event, it was a 3 way tie before tiebreaker points were counted up. Battle Points, Sportsmanship, Battle Tactics, Grand Strategy and paint scores were all tabulated to assess the overall winner. Emma Mangles was initially ruled the champion. After their correction, Matthew Swinney was the rightful champion, Emma at #2, with Kaleb Walters in the 3 spot.

It isn't really the chronic cheaters who usually win the biggest events--that's the irony. The tournament-deciding tables are much more heavily watched, and the players who have all the skill needed to win without cheating are the ones that pull through. And those players generally know their stuff, because that level of skill includes not only knowledge of their own army but all the ones they might face.

The players who often do *well* maybe winning regional or smaller tournaments here and there, pulling high ranks often but rarely to never actually pulling the win? That's riddled with cheaters. Not all of them by any measure, I'd hesitate to even suggest a majority, but it is really dam common.

It doesn't even have to do with prizes, there are just a lot of people who care way too much about winning. These aren't calculated thinkers pulling off a heist; they're just asshats who'd cheat even if there was no prize involved.