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They’ve got to be slower than ORKS though, surely??? M4?

Andykp wrote:
They’ve got to be slower than ORKS though, surely??? M4?

Probably. Or even M3, if they really want to copy WHFB Dwarfs.

Andykp wrote:
They’ve got to be slower than ORKS though, surely??? M4?

On the other hand:

Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

KillerAngel wrote:
Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

It would be interesting if GW went full Mobile Infantry and gave Squats jetpacks.

They had hoverboards at the start.

But then, everyone used Shuriken catapults, and had jetbikes too.

['Squats on a hoverboard' is an exercise thing now though.]

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

It would be interesting if GW went full Mobile Infantry and gave Squats jetpacks.

Spoiler:

complete with portable tactical nuke launchers

Doogie Howser: Would you like to know more?

Actually excited to see what the Fast Attack options are going to look like. Drop Pod assault? Winged Jetpacks that put the bird winged Ad Mech to shame? So many options...

KillerAngel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

It would be interesting if GW went full Mobile Infantry and gave Squats jetpacks.

Spoiler:

complete with portable tactical nuke launchers

Doogie Howser: Would you like to know more?

Actually excited to see what the Fast Attack options are going to look like. Drop Pod assault? Winged Jetpacks that put the bird winged Ad Mech to shame? So many options...

Hoping bikes and trikes but not expecting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:

Andykp wrote:
They’ve got to be slower than ORKS though, surely??? M4?

On the other hand:

That made me lol. Have an exalt.

 Skinnereal wrote:
They had hoverboards at the start.

Squat hoverboards? Squat hoverboards. (Art originally from Rogue Trader)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was looking at catalog of the Squat miniatures that GW made since they will turn to the old range for inspiration. There was some stuff that was noted as "designed for 2nd Edition 40K but the squat race was withdrawn prior to their release". I guess just because the models were never released, it doesn't mean they couldn't take ideas from them.


This unreleased 2nd edition model definitely look like a Viking or fantasy dwarf with a bolter. Actually it reminds me of a Blood Bowl dwarf too. There was some cool artwork too of two Squats like this fighting some chaos marines. I think it was in the first edition battle manual. Very different from the "1st edtion" stuff. Interesting to see though... GW was struggling to come up with something different before shelving it all. After seeing the new model, I cant see them creating anything like this...beyond maybe some design cues here and there (belt buckle, etc) or maybe more for a special character.




Ok, these unreleased guys were labeled as "Cyberslayers". Very much from fantasy. The interesting thing here is that the 1st edition range didn't have anything for unique units... there were the guardsmen Squats... and the fat-biker Squats. So if that's needed for the Votann, this is an idea they might reuse? What do you guys think?

The old Inquisitor magazine (#15) published some 2nd edition rules for Squats that included rules for "Berzerkers" (ie slayers). My old local FLGS allowed it for Squat players. As far as homebrew codexes go, it wasn't too weird. For rules, they had two power weapons and a 5+ invulnerable save. I guess they didn't wear much other than a belt with a force field generator on it. They got bonuses for charging as well.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the potential release schedule.

I have a theory, and only a theory that when it’s a big release like this, it’s staggered so “one of everything” equates to what GW have found to be the Average Spend on Big Release Weekends.

I dare say more meat can be put on these bones if anyone cares to look back at such releases and do some basic adding up.

Mmh. I’m thinking campaign book with the first wave and full codex with second to match logistics to the ”no rules without models” fixation. Or multiple campaign books, as two waves seems a bit low…

 Argive wrote:
I recon T4 1W stat line because that's pretty much been vacated by the marines.
Anyone claiming thats not good enough forgets that vast portions of factions run 1w t3 infantry as basic troops...

M5 WS3 BS3 S4 T5 1W 2A 9Ld 3+ Save is my guess.
I could see S3 T4 but don't think Dwarves would like being less tough than Orks.
I could also see 2Ws on the first statline, as they go for an elite technological army.
The more like Space Marines they are, the more they will probably sell.
A Xenos Space Marine faction would seem like a good money maker.

gravitywell wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
They had hoverboards at the start.

Squat hoverboards? Squat hoverboards. (Art originally from Rogue Trader)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was looking at catalog of the Squat miniatures that GW made since they will turn to the old range for inspiration. There was some stuff that was noted as "designed for 2nd Edition 40K but the squat race was withdrawn prior to their release". I guess just because the models were never released, it doesn't mean they couldn't take ideas from them.


This unreleased 2nd edition model definitely look like a Viking or fantasy dwarf with a bolter. Actually it reminds me of a Blood Bowl dwarf too. There was some cool artwork too of two Squats like this fighting some chaos marines. I think it was in the first edition battle manual. Very different from the "1st edtion" stuff. Interesting to see though... GW was struggling to come up with something different before shelving it all. After seeing the new model, I cant see them creating anything like this...beyond maybe some design cues here and there (belt buckle, etc) or maybe more for a special character.




Ok, these unreleased guys were labeled as "Cyberslayers". Very much from fantasy. The interesting thing here is that the 1st edition range didn't have anything for unique units... there were the guardsmen Squats... and the fat-biker Squats. So if that's needed for the Votann, this is an idea they might reuse? What do you guys think?

The old Inquisitor magazine (#15) published some 2nd edition rules for Squats that included rules for "Berzerkers" (ie slayers). My old local FLGS allowed it for Squat players. As far as homebrew codexes go, it wasn't too weird. For rules, they had two power weapons and a 5+ invulnerable save. I guess they didn't wear much other than a belt with a force field generator on it. They got bonuses for charging as well.

Interesting how some of the design aesthetics were shared or transferred over to Orks, 2nd edition Zodrog in particular

KillerAngel wrote:

Actually excited to see what the Fast Attack options are going to look like. Drop Pod assault? Winged Jetpacks that put the bird winged Ad Mech to shame? So many options...

Hovering robots shaped like kegs that buff the League and debuff enemy models.

This release could go the Custodes route as well. If they just make the leaders an accessory part in the troops box, they could get up to three leaders type, plus three infantry/bikes in just three boxes.

If squats have a walker, I'd like to see it be somewhat a blend of a Contemptor and a Crisis Suit in looks, but with a focuss on close combat.

EightFoldPath wrote:

M5 WS3 BS3 S4 T5 1W 2A 9Ld 3+ Save is my guess.

Oof, I'm not sure I'd like that. Seems too elite, they need to fit the middle ground between horde and elite.
M5 WS/BS4+ S3 T4 1W 2A 7LD Sv4+

Andykp wrote:

Hoping bikes and trikes but not expecting.

I think hoverbikes isn't a stretch.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Hovering robots shaped like kegs that buff the League and debuff enemy models.

Ha! Do ale consumption markers need to be a thing?

KillerAngel wrote:

Ha! Do ale consumption markers need to be a thing?

Squat apothecary equivalent is just a dude with a keg on his back to give a FNP aura

The context for this is that I've always loved Squats and I've got about an army's worth of original GW squats (with some Harlequin, Ramshackle, etc auxiliaries), mostly unpainted. It's sort of my paint-some-day dream army.

So many mixed feelings.
First, I love that GW is bringing Squats into the universe again. However, the figure I see suggests that the design is a mix of Tau and Mantic Forgefathers. Not even close to the RT aesthetic. I don't even care that they feel an update is necessary, but the one thing that Squats shouldn't be is shiny, and this guy looks shiny.

The upside is that if the new aesthetic is dominant, I'll be very much free from the temptation to buy more GW figures. This may likely be the case anyway since scale creep is a thing and old squats are veeery smaaalll and unlikely to be compatible with any new range. On the other hand, if the new army units are plausibly representable by RT-era squat figures (I do have a fair number of RT plastics that could be armed alternately), there will be a real temptation to start painting these guys and buy into whatever edition of 40k we're in now.

I will wait and see. Got alot of other projects to keep me busy in the meantime and my squats aren't going anywhere.

I keep hearing people wanting the Squats to have anti-grave tech/vehicles. While I agree that I'd like to see some more advanced human-ish tech, I don't think this is a good fit for them. If their old fluff is still valid, they like higher grav worlds, and these places wouldn't really be conductive to flight at all. Now, I'm not saying that Squats should have zero flying units, only that I think this is one faction where it should be on the rare side.

KillerAngel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

It would be interesting if GW went full Mobile Infantry and gave Squats jetpacks.

Spoiler:

complete with portable tactical nuke launchers

Doogie Howser: Would you like to know more?

Actually excited to see what the Fast Attack options are going to look like. Drop Pod assault? Winged Jetpacks that put the bird winged Ad Mech to shame? So many options...

I'm hoping something exoticish, like a monowheel bike with a driver and gunner pod on either side of a large central wheel.

KillerAngel wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:

M5 WS3 BS3 S4 T5 1W 2A 9Ld 3+ Save is my guess.

Oof, I'm not sure I'd like that. Seems too elite, they need to fit the middle ground between horde and elite.
M5 WS/BS4+ S3 T4 1W 2A 7LD Sv4+

Andykp wrote:

Hoping bikes and trikes but not expecting.

I think hoverbikes isn't a stretch.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Hovering robots shaped like kegs that buff the League and debuff enemy models.

Ha! Do ale consumption markers need to be a thing?

The original Squat statline was
M3,WS4, BS3, S3, T4, W1, A1, LD9, Sv6+ 85pts/5 models for base
M3, WS7, BS6, S4, T5, W3, A3, LD10 Sv4+ 74pts/model for Warlord/ Army Commander.

If they start there, I don't see too many issues.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Necrons and Ratlings are both M5, so I suspect LoV will be as well. Maybe even M7 because of TeChNoLoGy!!!! Those stilt feet must be good for something.

It would be interesting if GW went full Mobile Infantry and gave Squats jetpacks.

Spoiler:

complete with portable tactical nuke launchers

Finally, a use for all those Space Marine combat knives!

gravitywell wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
They had hoverboards at the start.

Squat hoverboards? Squat hoverboards. (Art originally from Rogue Trader)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was looking at catalog of the Squat miniatures that GW made since they will turn to the old range for inspiration. There was some stuff that was noted as "designed for 2nd Edition 40K but the squat race was withdrawn prior to their release". I guess just because the models were never released, it doesn't mean they couldn't take ideas from them.


This unreleased 2nd edition model definitely look like a Viking or fantasy dwarf with a bolter. Actually it reminds me of a Blood Bowl dwarf too. There was some cool artwork too of two Squats like this fighting some chaos marines. I think it was in the first edition battle manual. Very different from the "1st edtion" stuff. Interesting to see though... GW was struggling to come up with something different before shelving it all. After seeing the new model, I cant see them creating anything like this...beyond maybe some design cues here and there (belt buckle, etc) or maybe more for a special character.




Ok, these unreleased guys were labeled as "Cyberslayers". Very much from fantasy. The interesting thing here is that the 1st edition range didn't have anything for unique units... there were the guardsmen Squats... and the fat-biker Squats. So if that's needed for the Votann, this is an idea they might reuse? What do you guys think?

The old Inquisitor magazine (#15) published some 2nd edition rules for Squats that included rules for "Berzerkers" (ie slayers). My old local FLGS allowed it for Squat players. As far as homebrew codexes go, it wasn't too weird. For rules, they had two power weapons and a 5+ invulnerable save. I guess they didn't wear much other than a belt with a force field generator on it. They got bonuses for charging as well.

I actually had 3 squats on hoverboards back in the day, thought I had a a photo somewhere, but can't find it. Anyway I used the boards from the Judge Dredd Skysurfers.

http://solegends.com/citjd/jd13skysurfers.jpg

If anything, Squats needs tracks and wheels.

Anti-grav? What dwarf would trust not having his two feet firmly on the ground! Makes it easier to aim or swing a hammer!

Leave flying to the Karachawhatever overlords.

Their armour look like 4+ armour to me.
Better than Guardsman, worse than Space Marines.
They'll probably have an elite unit with a 3+.

 Easy E wrote:
If anything, Squats needs tracks and wheels.

Anti-grav? What dwarf would trust not having his two feet firmly on the ground! Makes it easier to aim or swing a hammer!

Leave flying to the Karachawhatever overlords.

I agree with this. To me having their vehicles be flying / anti-grav would clash with the whole industrial rugged miner idea. The idea of "more DAoT things left" just ending up translating into more hover stuff would be quite a let down i think, I'd much prefer if they had more advanced/sophisticated technology without having to resort to that. Eldar and Dark Eldar have anti-grav for all their vehicles and have jetbikes, Custodes have Jetbikes, Space Marines have Land speeders and had jetbikes, Primaris Marines have plenty of anti-grav designs, Tau have anti-grav for all their vehicles. I hope Votann comes across as more of like an upgrade of Imperial Guard and Genestealer Cult designs than yet another "Look at how advanced they are, they have anti-grav everywhere!" army.

Almost all the classic squat reference material shows them having heavy tracked vehicles that even out-class the Imperium for insane chunky design and huge profiles.

I could see them having some kind of hover-tech for aircraft, they did have a huge zeppelin design unit. So instead of the sleek and agile anti-grav of the Eldar and Tau.



That said there's been a lot of water under the bridge since those early designs and GW might think of a different approach to give them a unique style. Heck perhaps GW pulls out the mecha-suits angle and instead of the more agile eldar or the jetpack utility tau; the Squats go for the full thick heavy lumbering mechs.

Not sure what I want for them, I don't want them to look and feel like GSC or Guard.
The anti-grav/ hover vehicle I could see looking at some sci-fi art. Something like huge floating slabs/monoliths of metal- like a floating sand crawler or the Atredies ships from Dune. Something with a sense of great weight and presence so not brick -like marine vehicles or the organic forms of Tau and Eldar. Could see tracked vehicles as well, again the Sandcrawler really could work- lumbering fortress which they deploy from.
Dwarfs need mobility though to be fun play otherwise they get stuck as a gun line which gets tiresome really quick.

 silverstu wrote:
Not sure what I want for them, I don't want them to look and feel like GSC or Guard.

I think that's a big thing and might be one reason its taken GW a while. Guard already do the whole heavy tank army and GSC already do the mining vehicle and design angle.

Squats 100% need to have their own identity on the tabletop that allows them to stand out.

The LoV model looks Starcraft lite, so I'm kinda expecting their vehicles to also look Starcraft lite. So likely treads and mechs and even some hovercraft, but not bricks like Imperial vehicles.

I wouldn't be adverse to them having this sort of bike (minus the launching part).



Instead of flight packs, perhaps squats should have burrow packs? Lot easier to keep from getting shot when you're surrounded by walls of earth (or phasing through the ground), then pop up in front of the enemy, instead of sailing through the sky where you're exposed.

Also, I imagine we'll see a fair bit of prosthetics, and with their proclivity for tech, some units may have gone the Admech route and replaced their legs with metal prosthesis for better marching endurance.


Finally, I don't know if anyone noticed, but in the teaser trailer, when they were showing the inside of the Imperial ships, there were signs it had been destroyed by some sort of Tyranid attack (we at least see a scything talon floating next to the guardsman body)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Interesting how some of the design aesthetics were shared or transferred over to Orks, 2nd edition Zodrog in particular

This might not be coincidence. Might be that the original masters were Squats, but might have had a head swap or tweak to turn it into an Ork.