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Durandal wrote:
The aesthetic looks close to the Karmen from AT 43, even down to the paint color choice.

My disappointment stems mostly from the generic SCI-FY aspect and that isn't ameliorated by some extra pouches or a shovel here and there.

God damn, that's a really good observation, they do really have the same style than thos monkeys from AT 43, while their vehicles look like they are out Starfield.

Boosykes wrote:Withought at least loose balance there can be no game withought a game 40k would go the route of Age of Sigmar on its release. Your simply wrong in this regard. The entirity that is 40k would valaps almost overnight withought the game side of things.

Boosykes wrote:Also what unique space do they fill within that game. T4 probably 4 plus save? That's not new. Honestly 40k is monolithic in size and should move to a d10 or d12 system. (die 12 so that people could still use 2 die 6) so that everything within it can be represented more easily and with greater distinction.

Will you please either proofread your posts before you make them, or use a spell-checker? Your posts are too close to gibberish to be worth reading.

And there is a distinct difference in probability between a d12 and 2d6 - if nothing else, you'll find it rather tricky to roll a 1 on 2d6.

Andykp wrote:I can see it, up to the point I put it I’m the battlefield.Then I’m out, sorry. I know it’s stupid letting common sense get in the way of 40k cool, and the death strike is cool.

Should be cool, but firing an ICBM inside an area roughly the size of an American Football stadium is beyond daft - and that's before you establish it seems to be using rubber rounds...

Santtu wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Then the engine was easily destroyed since it wasn't a superheavy.

It was (Codex Titanicus, page 107).

It was a superheavy in the way that Baneblades and Shadowswords were in Epic 2nd edition, mainly that they could not be locked in close combat by anything smaller than them. However one failed armor save against a hit that slipped through the shields would destroy it. It was a flaw in the rule system that made normal superheavies too fragile.

The Land Train was basically then in Epic, 5 vehicles strung together in a line. That makes it difficult to hide or conceal, and even 6 void shields does not last long if you are exposed. Then 1 failed armor save on the engine destroys the mobility and the void shields for good. The remaining cars could then be picked off at leisure.

Boosykes wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
All bickering aside, can we at least all agree that even if there isn't enough "True Squat" in the LoV, that the most important things are: 1. The army has good internal and external balance. 2. They fill a new niche in the game. 3. The fluff is at least okay in quality. 4. There had better be more than 7 units in this army.

withought at least loose balance there can be no game. As Age of Sigmare found out during its inseption games workshop demands such high fees and is spoken about so often I'd derived primarily from the game withought that 40k will go the way age of sigmar was going before they added the game bavk to it. Your simply wrong in this regard.

For me,

Don’t care about 1. Not an issue.
2 and 3 are looking good so far.
4, for units we know are coming it’s sitting around 7 or 8 already. So fingers crossed for a few more.

....What? You don't care about them being balanced?

I know this is a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but the vast majority of people buying GW products don't give two shakes about balance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Withought at least loose balance there can be no game withought a game 40k would go the route of Age of Sigmar on its release. Your simply wrong in this regard. The entirity that is 40k would valaps almost overnight withought the game side of things.

There are more people who purchase GW products(for painting, collecting, reading the novels, etc.) than there are that play 40K. Those people don't care a jot about whether the game is balanced or not.

Dosent matter those people simply orbit the game. Withought the game 40k dies. It's why you will never see 40k withought a game aspect. Basically the lifeblood.

As AOS proved simply gw loses money on all the rules writing but they understand partially thanks to AOS its value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

Boosykes wrote:Withought at least loose balance there can be no game withought a game 40k would go the route of Age of Sigmar on its release. Your simply wrong in this regard. The entirity that is 40k would valaps almost overnight withought the game side of things.

Boosykes wrote:Also what unique space do they fill within that game. T4 probably 4 plus save? That's not new. Honestly 40k is monolithic in size and should move to a d10 or d12 system. (die 12 so that people could still use 2 die 6) so that everything within it can be represented more easily and with greater distinction.

Will you please either proofread your posts before you make them, or use a spell-checker? Your posts are too close to gibberish to be worth reading.

And there is a distinct difference in probability between a d12 and 2d6 - if nothing else, you'll find it rather tricky to roll a 1 on 2d6.

Andykp wrote:I can see it, up to the point I put it I’m the battlefield.Then I’m out, sorry. I know it’s stupid letting common sense get in the way of 40k cool, and the death strike is cool.

Should be cool, but firing an ICBM inside an area roughly the size of an American Football stadium is beyond daft - and that's before you establish it seems to be using rubber rounds...

No. Read it or don't. I could care less.

Boosykes wrote:
Dosent matter those people simply orbit the game. Withought the game 40k dies. It's why you will never see 40k withought a game aspect. Basically the lifeblood.

I find this claim questionable, given the sales of Black Library and merch and stuff, and looking at all the lore-nerds who even buy codices for background information but don’t play 40k miniatures games. The 40k universe has become much bigger than just the army game.

Also, there are many painters who don’t play, or play other sci-fi games with 40k minis. Heck, even I probably have more than 2,000 points of imperial guard and I’ve never played 40k proper.

I could care less.

This sentence probably doesn‘t say what you think it does.

Boosykes wrote:
I could care less.

And there it is... Go on then, care less.

If you cannot be bothered to write clearly, do not expect anyone to respond in a manner you would want.
If there is a reason you cannot write clearly, put it in your sig. Disclaimers help if you have valid reasons for things people will take objection to.

Sorry, off-topic rant over.

Andykp wrote:

Why are you so aggressive all the time? This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Just had a look through your previous posts and you have been on the attack from the get go? What’s wrong?

If a hobby isn't worth being passionate about, for good or ill, what's the point?

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Rev 3:16)

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

....What? You don't care about them being balanced?

Personally I fail to see the appeal of playing the game in the first place. Take a look at this thread, at your fellow community members. Why the hell would I want to spend several hours of my life playing a game with ... them? Nothing about the prospect is not repulsive to me. You people disgust me.

So, with the Plastic Squats kit coming out for Necromunda, and every other gang getting one eventually, how long until the Squats mining gang gets a FW weapon set? The kit itself does not have a lot of options to go around.

Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

I do not like Golf. But I don't go around telling everyone how much I don't like Golf. I don't hang out on the Golf.com forums and complain about the look of Golf, the design of Golf.

I simply move on. Which is what some of you really need to do. Move. On.

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

I do not like Golf. But I don't go around telling everyone how much I don't like Golf. I don't hang out on the Golf.com forums and complain about the look of Golf, the design of Golf.

I simply move on. Which is what some of you really need to do. Move. On.

"Don't criticize something you're interested in, you have to think it's perfect, only positive comments allowed" is the vibe this gives off.

Acting like everyone who is disappointed with some parts of them isn't allowed to still be interested in them and to discuss those negative aspects is just absurd. It isn't just a binary choice where the only options are either outright love them or hate them.

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

It takes two sides, you know. Certain people keep acting as if no one is allowed to find something less than perfect and keep giving completely asinine, condescending responses as if just disagreeing is some slight against them so they need to find whatever nonsensical reason they can to argue against anyone being critical of the new direction of the Leagues. If those people misconstruing what's said and being disingenuous didn't keep happening then it wouldn't have gone on for so long.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

It takes two sides, you know. Certain people keep acting as if no one is allowed to find something less than perfect and keep giving completely asinine, condescending responses as if just disagreeing is some slight against them so they need to find whatever nonsensical reason they can to attempt some sort of "Gotcha! at any less than entirely positive comments.

You're allowed not to like things. What I don't understand is 15 plus pages of the same comments over and over and over about how you don't like things. It's the same tired crap, like Trump screaming over and over again how he won like a toddler. We all get it, the Leagues of Votann aren't for you. Just like how nothing Chaos Deamons is for me. The difference is I don't spend endless hours complaining about Chaos deamons whenever they get a release. The modes are made, the style is set. Your complaining will change nothing and very few people will change their opinion on it. The community who will be wanting this army will be one side or the other and very few in-between. So, what exactly is the purpose of jerking each other off over how much you dislike something? What are you attempting to accomplish? Who are you trying to convert and why?

It's just an endless waste of everyone's time, this fething argument is literally no different from the idiots who argue over how steak should be cooked. It's all personal preference.

Jesus a lot of folks on this forum really need to get laid or something...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

I've noticed this being a trend more and more, and anytime someone tries to change the subject they just get pummeled with smooth brained "Toxic Positivity" strawmen arguments. It's getting really, really old.

You say "laid," I say "shot," let's agree to call the whole thing off.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
You say "laid," I say "shot," let's agree to call the whole thing off.

It was mostly my attempt to add a little humor. But seriously people need to chill, myself included.

I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

Still, at least we'll always have "Masters of Teräs Käsi"...

 Togusa wrote:


You're allowed not to like things. What I don't understand is 15 plus pages of the same comments over and over and over about how you don't like things. It's the same tired crap,

I'm getting delirious from the irony. Are you really setting out to insult yourself this way?

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

Still, at least we'll always have "Masters of Teräs Käsi"...

Huh! I learned a thing today. Teräs Käsi is Finnish for "Steel Hand" in case anyone else was going to google.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

Still, at least we'll always have "Masters of Teräs Käsi"...

I haven't kept up with the lore for the army as much. 40K is in a tough spot for me right now as I personally think this edition is very bad and player unfriendly. I've been working a lot more on my HH stuff, but LoV look interesting enough to me that I might take a crack at them in 10th edition. I am a bit concerned that they'll do with LoV what they did with Lumineth, Daughters of Khaine, Sisters of Battle where they tossed out two codexs and a wave 2 release all within a year of the original release. So I feel like it might be better to wait and get in with wave 2, if that's how it ends up happening.

 Togusa wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

It takes two sides, you know. Certain people keep acting as if no one is allowed to find something less than perfect and keep giving completely asinine, condescending responses as if just disagreeing is some slight against them so they need to find whatever nonsensical reason they can to attempt some sort of "Gotcha! at any less than entirely positive comments.

You're allowed not to like things. What I don't understand is 15 plus pages of the same comments over and over and over about how you don't like things. It's the same tired crap, like Trump screaming over and over again how he won like a toddler. We all get it, the Leagues of Votann aren't for you. Just like how nothing Chaos Deamons is for me. The difference is I don't spend endless hours complaining about Chaos deamons whenever they get a release. The modes are made, the style is set. Your complaining will change nothing and very few people will change their opinion on it. The community who will be wanting this army will be one side or the other and very few in-between. So, what exactly is the purpose of jerking each other off over how much you dislike something? What are you attempting to accomplish? Who are you trying to convert and why?

It's just an endless waste of everyone's time, this fething argument is literally no different from the idiots who argue over how steak should be cooked. It's all personal preference.

Jesus a lot of folks on this forum really need to get laid or something...

I totally get that the whole thing is just becoming repetitive bickering but the reason it's been going on for so long because of the same few posters keep giving just terrible nonsensical arguments against anyone being critical. Both sides of opinions should be equally valid but the way some responses have been act as if that's not the case at all. It's gone from being a reasonable discussion to this because of those disingenuous comments (and strangely, has got worse over the past month for some reason...hmm...)

Again though, it's not some love them or hate them situation where anyone who expresses disappointment must be on the "hate" side of things and therefore isn't allowed as saying "The Leagues aren't for you" makes it seem. People can be interested in them and enjoy them despite being critical, that's certainly the case for me at least. The Leagues are great and potentially my new favourite faction, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that are negative about them. The reason I'm here is because I'm passionate about them, because they're Space Dwarfs and that's just cool regardless.

As for trying to "convert" someones opinion...who's said anything about that? The Leagues are being discussed in a thread for discussing them, that's all. There should be multiple angles of opinion, unless you want it to be some sort of positive echo chamber. Acting like it's critical comments that are "worthless" while positive stuff somehow isn't pointless is an odd perspective to have, neither side will change how the models turn out. That shouldn't mean people don't discuss both the good and the bad.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Jesus Christ this thread is insufferable. Five pages since Friday and it's all the same rehashed bickering.

Every attempt to break this weird repetitive, useless, boring and toxic bickering is short lived and it only takes a few posts for the same people to flood the topic yet again with same bickering.
Its borderline unreadable.

It takes two sides, you know. Certain people keep acting as if no one is allowed to find something less than perfect and keep giving completely asinine, condescending responses as if just disagreeing is some slight against them so they need to find whatever nonsensical reason they can to attempt some sort of "Gotcha! at any less than entirely positive comments.

You're allowed not to like things. What I don't understand is 15 plus pages of the same comments over and over and over about how you don't like things. It's the same tired crap, like Trump screaming over and over again how he won like a toddler. We all get it, the Leagues of Votann aren't for you. Just like how nothing Chaos Deamons is for me. The difference is I don't spend endless hours complaining about Chaos deamons whenever they get a release. The modes are made, the style is set. Your complaining will change nothing and very few people will change their opinion on it. The community who will be wanting this army will be one side or the other and very few in-between. So, what exactly is the purpose of jerking each other off over how much you dislike something? What are you attempting to accomplish? Who are you trying to convert and why?

It's just an endless waste of everyone's time, this fething argument is literally no different from the idiots who argue over how steak should be cooked. It's all personal preference.

Jesus a lot of folks on this forum really need to get laid or something...

I totally get that the whole thing is just becoming repetitive bickering but the reason it's been going on for so long because of the same few posters keep giving just terrible nonsensical arguments against anyone being critical. Both sides of opinions should be equally valid but the way some responses have been act as if that's not the case at all. It's gone from being a reasonable discussion to this because of those disingenuous comments (and strangely, has got worse over the past month for some reason...hmm...)

Again though, it's not some love them or hate them situation where anyone who expresses disappointment must be on the "hate" side of things and therefore isn't allowed as saying "The Leagues aren't for you" makes it seem. People can be interested in them and enjoy them despite being critical, that's certainly the case for me at least. The Leagues are great and potentially my new favourite faction, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that are negative about them.

As for trying to "convert" someones opinion...who's said anything about that? The Leagues are being discussed in a thread for discussing them, that's all. There should be multiple angles of opinion, unless you want it to be some sort of positive echo chamber. Acting like it's critical comments that are "worthless" while positive stuff somehow isn't pointless is an odd perspective to have, neither side will change how the models turn out. That shouldn't mean people don't discuss both the good and the bad.

It comes across from some posters that the idea is to get others to jump on the train, at least to me. Critical comments about design, art direction, etc aren't worthless. It's rehashing them over and over and over and over again as if they're a nail that needs to be hammered that gets old. Having a discussion about a thing is fine, having the same discussion over and over again isn't really all that helpful and just comes across as people arguing because they think their opinion (positive or negative) is superior to the other.

As for the "gotten worse over the last month" quote, I assume there is an insinuation as to a specific someone you feel is egging it on?

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

Still, at least we'll always have "Masters of Teräs Käsi"...

I haven't kept up with the lore for the army as much. 40K is in a tough spot for me right now as I personally think this edition is very bad and player unfriendly. I've been working a lot more on my HH stuff, but LoV look interesting enough to me that I might take a crack at them in 10th edition. I am a bit concerned that they'll do with LoV what they did with Lumineth, Daughters of Khaine, Sisters of Battle where they tossed out two codexs and a wave 2 release all within a year of the original release. So I feel like it might be better to wait and get in with wave 2, if that's how it ends up happening.

Not to be overly negative but 10th ed is very likely going to suck because it's made by the same clowns that have been consistently unable to write good rules so far. And GW isn't going to drop their obsessive book release model that makes them so much money.

So if you actually enjoy Heresy and like the new Squats enough to buy an army of them, perhaps you'd be better off using them as Imperial Army/Solar Auxilia in Horus Heresy?

Seems like a safer bet than hoping that GW is going to improve things overnight that work out for them fine the way they are. You buy one book, probably get to use it for a longer time than any 40k codex and in the unlikely event that 40k gets good again you may be able to use your Squats without much alteration in that game, too.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

And here I was hoping that they'd reveal the Pyrkyl battle tank.

 Geifer wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I am curious, though, why the exosuit is called a "Vartijan". I don't think it's a cromulent word in any other language besides Finnish (where it means "(the) guard's" (genitive case)). Having Squats speak a mangled mishmash of future-Finnish would of course be very amusing, but that's sadly not the route they've gone with, it seems.

Still, at least we'll always have "Masters of Teräs Käsi"...

I haven't kept up with the lore for the army as much. 40K is in a tough spot for me right now as I personally think this edition is very bad and player unfriendly. I've been working a lot more on my HH stuff, but LoV look interesting enough to me that I might take a crack at them in 10th edition. I am a bit concerned that they'll do with LoV what they did with Lumineth, Daughters of Khaine, Sisters of Battle where they tossed out two codexs and a wave 2 release all within a year of the original release. So I feel like it might be better to wait and get in with wave 2, if that's how it ends up happening.

Not to be overly negative but 10th ed is very likely going to suck because it's made by the same clowns that have been consistently unable to write good rules so far. And GW isn't going to drop their obsessive book release model that makes them so much money.

So if you actually enjoy Heresy and like the new Squats enough to buy an army of them, perhaps you'd be better off using them as Imperial Army/Solar Auxilia in Horus Heresy?

Seems like a safer bet than hoping that GW is going to improve things overnight that work out for them fine the way they are. You buy one book, probably get to use it for a longer time than any 40k codex and in the unlikely event that 40k gets good again you may be able to use your Squats without much alteration in that game, too.

I'm not planning to buy them at this time. I'll evaluate them in the next edition once I see how that all works out, assuming the rumors about 10th coming next year are correct. I really liked 8th edition a lot and mostly still play it when I do play 40K. While it's true that 10th could very well be as bad as 9th edition, it could also be better. For the book model, I don't know about that. I'd say a lot more people use alternative rules sources these days, rather than getting books. That doesn't work for tournaments, but in the casual setting (were the majority of players are) it works just fine.

 Geifer wrote:


Not to be overly negative but 10th ed is very likely going to suck because it's made by the same clowns that have been consistently unable to write good rules so far. And GW isn't going to drop their obsessive book release model that makes them so much money.

So if you actually enjoy Heresy and like the new Squats enough to buy an army of them, perhaps you'd be better off using them as Imperial Army/Solar Auxilia in Horus Heresy?

Seems like a safer bet than hoping that GW is going to improve things overnight that work out for them fine the way they are. You buy one book, probably get to use it for a longer time than any 40k codex and in the unlikely event that 40k gets good again you may be able to use your Squats without much alteration in that game, too.

I don't think it's likely to be bad looking at the facts.

GW has been doing good rules recently, Killteam and Warcry are both great, Horus Heresy has been well received, Age of Sigmar is doing quite well.

The largest complaint for 9th seems to be the bloat and hassle and mess. The rumours going around say 10th is slimmed down in that regard.

 Togusa wrote:
I'd say a lot more people use alternative rules sources these days, rather than getting books. That doesn't work for tournaments, but in the casual setting (were the majority of players are) it works just fine.

I don't know anyone who uses the older or alternate rules at all. To say 'most' is projecting your local experience out. GW is doing well enough with the sale of new books, because a 'lot' of people still use the current rules.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I'd say a lot more people use alternative rules sources these days, rather than getting books. That doesn't work for tournaments, but in the casual setting (were the majority of players are) it works just fine.

I don't know anyone who uses the older or alternate rules at all. To say 'most' is projecting your local experience out. GW is doing well enough with the sale of new books, because a 'lot' of people still use the current rules.

I think he was more referring to using pirated rules, pdfs and online sources of current rules rather than older rules sets.

Probably, but that's against the Dakkadakka rules, so I didn't go there.
Whether people buy their new books, gain them though some other means, or don't use them at all, only the first option is done around here. To say "a lot more people" do otherwise is not my experience.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I'd say a lot more people use alternative rules sources these days, rather than getting books. That doesn't work for tournaments, but in the casual setting (were the majority of players are) it works just fine.

I don't know anyone who uses the older or alternate rules at all. To say 'most' is projecting your local experience out. GW is doing well enough with the sale of new books, because a 'lot' of people still use the current rules.

.....

Let me try it this way: "Yo Ho Ho Ho a Pirate's life for me" if you catch my driftwood. I don't advocate for it, but it is a reality that is becoming more accessible in the current era.