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I'm thinking of starting a Crimson Fists army. What appeals to me lore-wise, is they are xenos specialists, namely Orks, and fleet-based.

Alien civilizations are personally, my favorite enemy lore-wise, over Chaos (whether it be Orks, Eldar, Tyranids or Necrons). I like the idea of foiling alien plots to acquire advantages against the Imperium; destroying Necron relics before they can be re-awakened for example. I want an army that can conceivably be called upon to fight Xenos across the galaxy (please suggest another if there is a better choice). Deployed to space hulks, to planetary surfaces, against Tyranid hive fleets, against Ork waaaghs, against Necron tombs, and Dark Eldar slavers.

What I was wondering, is how far and wide do chapters deploy? Is it more fluff-appropriate to collect Ordo Xenos, or some other force? Do the Crimson Fists generally just hang around within 1000 light years of Rynn's World, in the Loki Sector, in Ultima Segmentum? I would like the force to be able to be able to turn up anywhere, fluff wise. (I guess judging by space hulk type games, Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and other first founding chapters turn up everywhere, and board a lot of space hulks...)

RomulanSoldier wrote:
I'm thinking of starting a Crimson Fists army. What appeals to me lore-wise, is they are xenos specialists, namely Orks, and fleet-based.

Alien civilizations are personally, my favorite enemy lore-wise, over Chaos (whether it be Orks, Eldar, Tyranids or Necrons). I like the idea of foiling alien plots to acquire advantages against the Imperium; destroying Necron relics before they can be re-awakened for example. I want an army that can conceivably be called upon to fight Xenos across the galaxy (please suggest another if there is a better choice). Deployed to space hulks, to planetary surfaces, against Tyranid hive fleets, against Ork waaaghs, against Necron tombs, and Dark Eldar slavers.

What I was wondering, is how far and wide do chapters deploy? Is it more fluff-appropriate to collect Ordo Xenos, or some other force? Do the Crimson Fists generally just hang around within 1000 light years of Rynn's World, in the Loki Sector, in Ultima Segmentum? I would like the force to be able to be able to turn up anywhere, fluff wise. (I guess judging by space hulk type games, Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and other first founding chapters turn up everywhere, and board a lot of space hulks...)

Thier is no canonical limit on where a chapter might deploy, and plenty of examples of them being somewhere they probably "should not".

Marine chapters are almost sovereign within the imperium. They are beholden to no one, and bound by almost no rules they do not impose upon themselves. No one, not even the High Lords of Terra themselves, can actually order them to do something against their will*. The rest of the imperium can only request for aid, or entreat them, or call upon them to honour oaths made previously. The marines themselves decide when and where they will fight, for the greatest benefit to the imperium.



so, yhea, they can go anywhere they want and fight whoever they choose to fight.


* they can compel via threats, of coruse, but they;d need to find more marines to back up those threats.

Generally wherever the narrative requires a Chapter will show up.

I can't speak to Crimson Fists specifically, but I think it tends to vary from chapter to chapter. The Nova Marines chapter is tasked with patrolling/protecting a specific area of space, for instance, so they'd likely keep the bulk of their forces near that area. SW, WS, DA, and Salamanders have all been known to send at least small forces pretty far afield in order to complete "hunts", deal with the Fallen, or hunt for Vulkan's treasures. Chapters that are low on numbers and trying to rebuild might focus on keeping the regions near their recruitment worlds safe (with the added bonus that they can more easily rescue/reinforce each other by staying nearby).

So it all just depends. If I'm correct in understanding that the CF no longer have a home world, I imagine they basically go wherever they like; probably preferring to deploy most of their small chapter to a single battlefront at a time to better support eachother. (Not sure how much of that still applies after Guilliman handed out primaris reinforcements.)

Well, some have very specific postings, such as out by the Ghoul Stars, where if memory serves a few Chapters are deployed to contain the Barghesi Xenos.

Others may not operate too far from their Chapter World.

Fleet Based Chapters can and will go wherever they damn well please.

Others will be a mix - such as long standing permanent garrisons, with mobile reserves.

But as xerxes said, outside of very specific deployments, Chapters are beholden to no-one. Even an Inquisitor can only petition Chapters for aid. Some will be free in giving their help. Others might tell you to sod off.

Badab had the Malestrom Warders and I seem to remember others for hotspots.

But yes a Chapter(esp Legion) can go do whatever they want, wherever they want. It's why many stories have a random chapter showing up on the other side of the galaxy. Well either that or shoddy writing...

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess Crimson Fists are okay, especially being a fleet based chapter. I was also considering Deathwatch.

It seems to me that Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines turn up everywhere, judging from space hulk deployments in video games and stuff.

I'm guessing there must be an in-universe reason why some chapters seem more liable to do this, perhaps just their fame means they get petitioned more, or they are more secure in terms of recruitment. The distinction between stationary chapters, say guarding the Ghoul Stars, and mobile ones, is a good thing for me to remember.

Where ever they are needed most!

Or, where ever the warp decided to spit them out really ha.

Deathwatch is interesting. I have a 25PL Deathwatch crusade- a Watchmaster leading a 5 man Proteus kill team (ie. firstborn) and Inquisitor Kyria Draxos (Ordo Xenos) leading a 5 man Fortis Kill Team (Primaris).

It plays more like a Kill Team than an army, but it's fun. As far as their current rules, some love them some hate them- personally I like them.

I think their fluff makes something like a fleet likely- they have Watch Fortresses, but they deploy from there to go where the aliens are. I also like their connections with the Ordo Xenos.

PenitentJake wrote:
Deathwatch is interesting. I have a 25PL Deathwatch crusade- a Watchmaster leading a 5 man Proteus kill team (ie. firstborn) and Inquisitor Kyria Draxos (Ordo Xenos) leading a 5 man Fortis Kill Team (Primaris).

It plays more like a Kill Team than an army, but it's fun. As far as their current rules, some love them some hate them- personally I like them.

I think their fluff makes something like a fleet likely- they have Watch Fortresses, but they deploy from there to go where the aliens are. I also like their connections with the Ordo Xenos.

deathwatch also have two big advantages: numbers and coverage. because they are not a formal chapter, bound by the codex Astartes, their are many thousands of deathwatch marines at any one time, but becuase they are spread out in "Penny packets*" across the entire imperium, they are not a unified force that would present a threat to the imperum. but they are everwhere, form segmentum solar to the depths of the ghoul starts, the deathwatch....watch.


*most watch fortresses have, at most, 5 half strength companies, so maybe 250-300 marines, or what a single battle barge might deploy.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But as xerxes said, outside of very specific deployments, Chapters are beholden to no-one. Even an Inquisitor can only petition Chapters for aid. Some will be free in giving their help. Others might tell you to sod off.

I think, technically, an inquisitor has authority over Space Marines, because Inquisitors are given the authority of the Emperor, and the Emperor themselves does have authority over Space Marines.

In practice, however, it is a bit of a case of "you and whose army?" when an inquistor would seek to order marines.

Width of plot.

 Haighus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But as xerxes said, outside of very specific deployments, Chapters are beholden to no-one. Even an Inquisitor can only petition Chapters for aid. Some will be free in giving their help. Others might tell you to sod off.

I think, technically, an inquisitor has authority over Space Marines, because Inquisitors are given the authority of the Emperor, and the Emperor themselves does have authority over Space Marines.

In practice, however, it is a bit of a case of "you and whose army?" when an inquistor would seek to order marines.

Oh an Inquisitor has certain authority, sure. But I don’t believe they can order Astartes into battle, or compel them to do anything in particular outside of “I’m here to check your Geneseed stores” etc.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But as xerxes said, outside of very specific deployments, Chapters are beholden to no-one. Even an Inquisitor can only petition Chapters for aid. Some will be free in giving their help. Others might tell you to sod off.

I think, technically, an inquisitor has authority over Space Marines, because Inquisitors are given the authority of the Emperor, and the Emperor themselves does have authority over Space Marines.

In practice, however, it is a bit of a case of "you and whose army?" when an inquistor would seek to order marines.

Oh an Inquisitor has certain authority, sure. But I don’t believe they can order Astartes into battle, or compel them to do anything in particular outside of “I’m here to check your Geneseed stores” etc.

Also don't forget an Inquisitors power and influence varies a lot one to the next. Some operate in small groups with specialist teams; others command starships and small fleets. Some are tightly bound to the Order they come form and can call upon their brothers and sisters and the full weight of the Inquisition very easily; others are more outcast.

They are a bit like the romantic ideal of the US Marshal. In theory a lot of power and skill, but often out in the wilds on their own or in a small team. What influence they have depends on how much those around respect and fear the Imperial Seal. OI they are out on the fringe the governor of a world or system might not challenge them face to face, but they might not be opposed to sending the Inquisitor to their doom via bad information or dark dealings. Hoping that the Inquisitor is just lost and no one comes looking too hard. Meanwhile worlds closer to the powerbase of the Inquisition might well never dare step out of line for fear of the full military weight that could be brought down upon them.



But yep when it comes to Marines pretty much everyone that isn't part of the Marines or the Emperor, has to treat and negotiate for their support. They are not men, they are angels from the Emperor himself.

There might be a slight gap between "no one can compel a Space Marine chapter to do anything" and "Space Marine chapters can do whatever they want."

Space Marines exist outside of the standard imperial command structure. Just like a Fleet Captain can't issue an order to an Imperial Guard colonel.

There have been situations where a Chapter has been compelled to act in a certain way, usually by the Inquisition or High Lords. The example I can think of is when the Lamentors were stripped of their recruiting grounds and the rights to replenish their numbers pending a redemption Crusade (last I heard, they had less than three companies left).

There have also been Chapters that have subordinated themselves to other entities. The Minotaurs and Redemptors come to mind. In theory, there could be any other number of Chapters that have done the same.

I'm also unsure of where a Crusade's Warmaster like in Gaunt's Ghosts would be as far as command goes. The title *might* give them the technical authority to command the Chapters in their command. I'm guessing in practice, it's mostly done by requesting since Space Marines wouldn't be there if they weren't going to contribute to the war effort there.

Altima wrote:
There might be a slight gap between "no one can compel a Space Marine chapter to do anything" and "Space Marine chapters can do whatever they want."

Space Marines exist outside of the standard imperial command structure. Just like a Fleet Captain can't issue an order to an Imperial Guard colonel.

There have been situations where a Chapter has been compelled to act in a certain way, usually by the Inquisition or High Lords. The example I can think of is when the Lamentors were stripped of their recruiting grounds and the rights to replenish their numbers pending a redemption Crusade (last I heard, they had less than three companies left).

There have also been Chapters that have subordinated themselves to other entities. The Minotaurs and Redemptors come to mind. In theory, there could be any other number of Chapters that have done the same.

I'm also unsure of where a Crusade's Warmaster like in Gaunt's Ghosts would be as far as command goes. The title *might* give them the technical authority to command the Chapters in their command. I'm guessing in practice, it's mostly done by requesting since Space Marines wouldn't be there if they weren't going to contribute to the war effort there.

ive discovered, after some digging, that i was slightly wrong in my initial post, in that the Marines DO fall under the formal authority of the adeptus terra and the High Lords, but basically outside the authority of anyone else, so i apologise for my mistake.

however, as you say, thiers plenty of cases of a chapter either being coerced to action by threat of death, or willingly subordinating themselves to someone else to create unity of command (for example, during the 3rd war for armageddon, or the black crusades, the local marines would nominate a chapter master to be in charge of all marines present to coordinate their use).


not clear on the authority of Warmaster/Lord Commander/Lord Solar (thiers a few titles used, as warmaster has....unfortunate history for the imperium). i think that again, they only have formal authority over the guard and navy assets of the campaign, and any astartes or sororitas joining in are thier under thier own authority and will just closely co-ordinate with the Warmaster on what they are doing, but still be strictly speaking, under thier own chain of command. that doesnt preclude them choosing to subordinate themselves, or being bound by thier own oaths to furfill the mission, etc.

Astartes Chapters are still only nominally under the command of the High Lords if one considers the High Lords to be the representatives of the Emperor. Space Marines are the one institution that isn't represented at all in the Senate or High Lords and that gives them that edge of freedom, meaning that even the High Lords still have to petition Chapters to do things. The petitions are almost always answered but a Chapter can still refuse anything but matters regarding geneseed or corruption.