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I do like Parente's art, and the miniatures and game look great, but it's Mythic, whom I can't stand due to their piss-poor customer service and inevitable delays, so unfortunately I'll have to pass.
Not sure if I have just been lucky but have backed 3 Mythic projects and received all my items each time (had a damaged KS exclusive for one of the games which they replaced without any issue). Both games were late but I have come to expect that with any Kickstarter (I am still waiting for a book I backed on KS to help my sister with her maths when she was 9, she is now in her 20s and the book has long since been of no use to me - the last update was in 2017 when it all got a bit tragic with him marrying and then divorcing one of the backers, losing his job and facing homelessness).
I've backed a few Mythic games, and gotten everything, eventually...
But it's more how they interact with backers annoys me, as well as the half-assed games design, so they've made my 'no back' list.
I was blown away by the quality of the original Joan of Arc 1.0 base pledge, then made the mistake of backing heavy for the 1.5 rules revamp & Teutonic expansion. While I got most of it, I'll never touch a Mythic KS again
Long rant about Joan of Arc:Time of Legends:
Spoiler:
Delays are fine, even extensive delays, but what is unforgivable is how bad the rules we got are. Their primary way of "proving" they were working on the game was to release new versions of the rulebook for proofreading....then just ignore any and all feedback from the KS comments, update comments, emails and even the BGG thread dedicated to proofreading the releases. Spelling errors, ability conflicts, mistranslations etc would go months and months and months and never be addressed or updated. Finally they released the "final proof" for review and people were screaming about long unfixed changes that sure enough all went into the printed rulebook and required an immediate FAQ, all of which had been pointed out before many times.
I was missing some addons, I bought a CRAPLOAD of extra bases and some extra terrain so I could base all my 15mm Demonworld elves and orcs and dwarves, almost $100 in extras missing. Emailed with exactly what I was short, exact numbers and SKUs and invoice#s and order#s, almost 3 months later I got a copy&pasted generic response email saying they were "working on a system to report missing items and to keep tuned for it". At this point I'm instead basing my JoA stuff for other systems when I had planned on basing them for JoA conversions
And because they fell out with the game designer over payment disputes, they lost the rights to even continue using the game system and JoA: Time of Legends name. Game is kaput, hope you ordered (and actually received) everything you wanted, because they lost the rights to their own game before it even delivered to most backers. They own the figures and the art, and they plan on making some kind of new wargame from those assets, but JoA is done, all the game mechanics revert to the original designer.
Figures are amazing, terrain is incredible, very fun to paint so far, but the rules issues and delays and missing items killed all my enthusiasm. I was able to find the few items I didn't have for an OK price on ebay, but I've barely touched it.
@Kalamadea: Thanks for sharing that. It helps my resolve to stay away from this KS. It was mainly not wanting yet another big box game that at best sees the table only once a year, but I'd heard a bit about their games being flawed and requiring copious FAQs and errata. So I'll heed the costly lesson you've shared.
@Kalamadea - Ouch that hurts to read - I was sorely tempted by the Joan of Arc KS the first time around. (I long for a 15mm game with modern design standards/material) - I'm glad the KS turned out to just be too much stuff for me to handle. Sad to see it all got bungled so badly :(
With China's lockdowns, supply chains are disrupted, and some companies aren't even operating. Shipping costs have increased dramatically, and ports need to be operational for stuff to ship.
So, imo, anything plastic should be yellow-flagged. Don't pledge more than you can afford to lose.
Don't get me too wrong, if you exclude the company shenanigans and take it on it's own then JoA is a great game and is completely playable after the FAQ, and I'm very happy to own it.
It's just that all of the errata that Mythic had to rush out to fix their supposedly "complete" 1.5 rulebook, every single bit of it, had been earmarked and documented and consolidated by page, paragragh, and line by the players long before it went to print, and there seams to be similar issues with their other games.
If you find it online for a decent price and have the space, I still 100% recommend getting it, I'm happy to own as much as I do. It's a good narrative game, alternately has rules for a good straight-up wargame, and also great for other 15mm fantasy games too, they're just straight up good models. But I wouldn't willingly go through that KS experience again if you paid for my pledge.
For what it is worth my Solomon Kane pledge and experience turned out great.
The game has generally been pretty well received, and the faqs and spelling errors have been pretty limited as I understand.
I am a big enough sucker for cool minis that I end up happy if I at least get cool miniatures. Mythic delivered in spades on that front with Solomon Kane, and I'm pretty confident they will again.
The game will almost certainly be wildly late and I put the odds of the game itself being bad at something like 30%.
Always easy enough to just toss bad game materials.
I have high hopes for this one as it has a limited narrative complexity (the reason both Solomon Kane was late and Hel is running late), doesn't appear to have a ton of cardboard and special tokens and cards etc. so should be more of a "big box of minis with many exclusives" style game.
Plus just the simple mechanic of being able to hop on different creatures looks so fun I'm sure to try it at least once.
Im out. The last straw was their marketing pushing anastyr on me without anyway of stopping the spam.
They arent interested in finishing their projects, only about creating churn. So im backing out of a $1k pledge for Monpoc from them.
Im sick of seeing Sam Healy's smarmy face and minimizing quips, im tired of lackluster CS, or even any real CS at all. I am not going to be their cheerleader any longer. There has to be some ethics in business, and they are showing they are just as bad as David Doust and Newwave Miniatures. Lots of excuses, and not much delivery on promises made. All while ignoring their customers who have given them cash.
For example, their monpoc update today is them saying they received the updated monpoc stats from PP. Woohoo! Yay! Now mythic has the exact same update from pp that everyone else on the planet has had access to for months! What an amazing triumph for further fulfilling the ks! So on top of things. Much impressed. Wow.
FFS, their ad for anastyr immediately afterwards had as much substsnce as that update.
It amounted to essentially "We really got nothing new for you, but hey, in case you havent seen the other dozen adverts weve been flooding your inbox about anastyr, here is yet another reminder that we have 7 pokers in the fire and nothing cooking for your meal"
They arent getting a chance to fool me twice. Now to wait 6 months for them to actually read my request for a refund and for it to be remitted...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/20 22:09:38
I'd much rather have regular updates (even when there is not much new to say) than radio silence with the occasional splurge of news
that way if they stop you at least get some warning that something odd is going on behind the scenes
(although i agree the videos with Sam are a bit cringeworthy)
as for having multiple projects on the go any big company really does have to do it due to the time it takes from even a finished fully playtested idea to product arriving in their warehouse, let alone a game further back in the development cycle
i've been pleased with solomon kane which did take a lot longer than planned, but is a decent game, at the end of it
If they're well managed they'll keep the pots of money separate from project to project, if not they risk problems but that's always going to be hard to tell from the outside so backers have to come to their own judgements on it
They went radio silent on the monpoc ks for the last month, only pulling out of their cave coveniently to say nothing in the update about that product and instead mention their new ks campaign.
I mean, i realize there is not much to say about anything other than "we're still working on it" and such updates are only there to keep people from being frantic until it gets fulfilled.
But saying the updates are regular is giving them far more credit than they deserve. Especially when they finally do decide to say something, its full of nothing burgers.2
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/21 11:36:43
I've not been a fan of Mythic's communication since Jake and Az were made departed. I just can't generate the level of enthusiasm for the campaigns anymore.
Having said that, I've backed five of their games so far and four of them have delivered flawlessly for me, Monsterpoc obviously still ongoing at this point in time.
With the exception of MB: P (which actually delivered early!), they've been delayed by 6-12 months each, but everything landed present and correct. The only QC issue I've had was a bent weapon on my Devil model from JoA, which was one bowl of hot water away from being a non-issue. Obviously, the JoA 1.5 campaign was a complete snafu, but it got there in the end.
Having said that I'm hoping that I'm done with their games (with the exception of whatever emerges from JoA), because I don't feel like dedicating anymore money or shelf space to the mountains of plastic and cardboard that I've accumulated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/21 20:23:09
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Two years ago I would have been all about this, but by now I'm out of game space and I've still got a backorder of several KS projects coming in.
It's funny how so many people during these campaigns complain they want "more gameplay, more gameplay!" while I now am so sick of the cardboard bloat that just seeing the map tiles and cards on this campaign page makes me recoil. My ideal KS game would have one large bifold board, a couple decks of cards at most, some dice, and then three side boxes with all the minis laid out for easy access in plastic trays. So I can just take the game out in five minutes and play. I need 10kg of cardboard map tiles and 2,000 gameplay cards about as much as I need to step on a nail.
I've always liked Mythic though and had good experiences with them, and it's cool to see them do a Paolo Parente project.
frankelee wrote: Two years ago I would have been all about this, but by now I'm out of game space and I've still got a backorder of several KS projects coming in.
It's funny how so many people during these campaigns complain they want "more gameplay, more gameplay!" while I now am so sick of the cardboard bloat that just seeing the map tiles and cards on this campaign page makes me recoil. My ideal KS game would have one large bifold board, a couple decks of cards at most, some dice, and then three side boxes with all the minis laid out for easy access in plastic trays. So I can just take the game out in five minutes and play. I need 10kg of cardboard map tiles and 2,000 gameplay cards about as much as I need to step on a nail.
I've always liked Mythic though and had good experiences with them, and it's cool to see them do a Paolo Parente project.
You raise a really good point about total closet space. I think people go through stages of Kickstarter backing.
You start out bright eyed and excited, back a couple projects, love the thrill of seeing new stuff get unlocked and get hooked. A couple years later and the projects have started arriving. The first big delivery one feels like Christmas. You have forgotten the sting of the money you shelled out years ago. It is just a big box of happy, with great value.
Then the boxes start piling up, some of the stuff you back goes sideways. You find yourself only pledging a dollar to keep your options open since you can't pledge everything you want. You regret some of the money you spent on projects for which your enthusiasm has waned in the intervening years. Some creators end up being some mixture of wildly incompetent or only good at selling hopium.
Then you reach stage three where you are still tempted by many campaigns, but you have so many still "on the way" and you realize you haven't even played some of the games you got and you are already at a loss of where the incoming dozen or so boxes from old campaigns...
Stage four is you just stop. There is nowhere for the games to go. You want to just pay the game you already have at some point.
I've seen a number of friends go through this cycle.
I love the art and setting for Anastyr, but I have no idea where I will put it. And the two plus years it will take to deliver... I'm finding it harder by the day to keep my pledge. And I really really love the miniatures and art, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/23 14:44:39
lol Gallahad, that's exactly what happened to me. I was in on Marvel Zombicide for a dollar, and I was thinking that would be my last one, but then I realized I didn't want it. It looks great, but why spend the $300 to get it, when I'm not even sure I'll have a bookshelf left to clear the knick-knacks off the top of to pile it up on.
frankelee wrote: lol Gallahad, that's exactly what happened to me. I was in on Marvel Zombicide for a dollar, and I was thinking that would be my last one, but then I realized I didn't want it. It looks great, but why spend the $300 to get it, when I'm not even sure I'll have a bookshelf left to clear the knick-knacks off the top of to pile it up on.
Yeah, I got real about the number of boxes I have coming in the next 8 months...
It is just two all in type pledges but... I honestly have no idea how to cram more than I have in the closet.
Wait - there is a sexy Dragon Queen - and you want me to fight AGAINST her.....
Oh but they got Becca Scott to do a How to......
Tempting....but Gallahad is so right
I am in Stage 3 but moving to Stage 4
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/24 20:55:20
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I love me some barbarians...
This campaign is offering me barbarians in the plains, barbarians in the jungle, barbarians in the hills, barbarians in the swamps...
Surely I could fit the boxes under my bed or... Something.
Gallahad wrote: This is getting harder to resist by the day.
I bet if you just ignore it completely, and no longer do Mythics marketing work for them by posting for each of their updates in hopes of raking in others to jack up the numbers to get stuff that was already predetermined before the campaign was ever posted...
Looks great tbh, they've somehow reigned in Parente so only most if the woman are dressed like his ideal warrior whore, the rest have big blood rage vibes. Mythic themselves are the only potential issue for me
I'm sure it will be late, I'm a bit dubious of the gameplay because I find games hard to judge without playing them in person, there is a risk that China invades Taiwan or something and gets hit with sanctions preventing Mythic from delivering.
There are definitely risks.
But on the other hand...
I'm confident the miniatures will be fantastic, there are a bunch of cool creatures to ride, the design work is fantastic imo, and the whole bronze age barbarian/sword and sorcery vibe it all has is very very appealing to me.
I would love to just purchase the boss miniatures and their mounts seperately...I don't need another fantasy game, but I definitely have a use for most of those characters...even if just as alts for Confrontation and Darklands.
Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood?
NO.
