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If they do introduce another Primarch, it should definitely be a foil to Guilliman - either a cynical Lion or maybe, just to troll, an Alpharius who claims he was loyal all along.

gungo wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dysartes wrote:

gungo wrote:
Every primarch coming back will be heavily flawed.
The crazed Wulven Logan
The 1 handed dorn
The mentally broken Corvus
The deranged vulkan
The undead sanguinus
And the corrupted lion el Johnson

We have no idea what state Leman Russ would be in these days - I can't rule out a Wulfen form, but I wouldn't assume it, either.

As noted above, Dorn having lost a hand shouldn't be a major issue - at the very least, cybernetics are a thing.

I'd be less worried about Corax's mental state, and more his shadow form, really.

I don't think we have any idea what Vulkan's mental state is like following the War of the Beast, do we, even assuming he survived?

Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus shouldn't make a return at all.

What evidence do you that the Lion is corrupted?

And I find it interesting that you forgot about the Khan altogether, though he'd probably like it that way.

There is literally Almost nothing known about what happened to khan… he chased after some raiders and disappeared into webway or something.. no one knows…
Vulkan is a perpetual that was killed over and over until he went insane..
Corax went emo into the warp
Lion was reportedly taken by the watchers in the dark but he’s the least known about… it basically comes down to is Luther lying?
Sanguinius is reportedly in stasis too…
Ferrus should be dead.. he was decapitated.
We really don’t know how much of dorn is around as all that is left of him was a hand.

Guilliman was literally the least broken primarch.

If we don't know where the Khan ended up in the Webway, we can't definitively say what state he's in - he could be chilling in the Black Library, he could be stuck in the pits of Commoragh, he could be looking for somewhere to refuel whatever vehicle he was riding when he entered the place...

Vulkan was definitely messed up by the end of the Heresy - to those who read the material when he crops up in The War of the Beast, did he seem like he'd recovered at all by that point? If so, the extra 6-7k years since that war may have helped even more (again, assuming he survived that death).

Going by the last story we've seen him in, Corax seems to still be loyal, and has leaned into the shadow manipulation stuff he had to go hunting his Traitor brethren within the Eye.

We know as an out-of-universe party that the Lion was taken by the Watchers, and that he is stashed away in The Rock. He definitely appears to be the obvious choice to wake up if you need to bring a second Loyalist Primarch into the fold.

As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Aye, the current status of Dorn is an interesting one - and he's one I don't see voluntarily vanishing if he just lost a hand. There's a question mark hanging over him, for sure, but that's true of most of these thanks to the logic of fiction when it comes to deaths...

gungo wrote:
your assuming Luther and cypher are bad… they haven’t been corrupted by chaos in all these years which lends me to beleive they aren’t exactly following chaos either.

I'll grant you that Cypher is, well, a cipher in that regard, and was at least non-Chaos enough to not get smited by Guilliman's crew during the events that lead to 8th - The Gathering Storm, wasn't it? - but Luther is definitely corrupted. After all, there's a reason a Daemon Prince broken him out of The Rock, and they're teaming up to unite an army of the corrupted Fallen. I'd also note that it isn't a given that any individual Fallen has been corrupted either, but from how things have been described, I'd image the majority are.

 Argive wrote:
Something that could work is Lion returning, everyone is happy. Until he tells the ecclesiarch to F off and does his own thing without telling anyone anything. Th ecclesiarchy would then try to instigate a power coup and force g man to declare against the lion by bringing up the "fallen" as a reason why he cant be trusted.

...that would imply the Church is aware of the Fallen, which is not a given.

Kind of a tangent, but Fabius has cloned primarchs, and the Black Rage seems to be passed on to those who share Sanguinius's genetic material. Would a hypothetical Sanguinius clone be afflicted with the Black Rage?

 Dysartes wrote:
As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Dreadnought Ferrus?

Living Metal Ferrus! When his head got chopped off, the metal of his hands slooooowly started creeping through his corpse, cyborging him until it could start the process of growing a silver head for him. Turns out he has Alpharius style super blood that conducts his memories, and his soul is currently stuck in the RP buffer of some necron tombworld, stubbornly refusing to be purged by the tomb spirit. So now he's healed but only dimly connected to his own body. A silver brain piloted by a distant ghost and built with the patchwork memories of demigod blood.

The flesh is weak, his sons chant, but oh how that distant ghost longs to see, taste, and touch with present, living flesh instead of the hazy numbness of his silver form.

Still, being tied to poorly-guarded xenos supertech has its advantages. On occassion, he can wrangle the powers of the tomb spirit to do his bidding, possessing the machines of the foes near his body. He is at once both in perfect communion with the machine and yet the ultimate perversion of mechanicus faith.

The flesh is weak, yes, but the primarch is not. Now. Where is his brother? Where is Fulgrim?

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Dreadnought Ferrus?

Given the decapitation, I'd say it is unlikely - did the IH even manage to recover his body (and/or head) from Istvaan, or was it lost?

No! Guilliman was a mistake already. If you want a foil from him, then just accept that people other than superhuman Mary Sues can have agency.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Something that could work is Lion returning, everyone is happy. Until he tells the ecclesiarch to F off and does his own thing without telling anyone anything. Th ecclesiarchy would then try to instigate a power coup and force g man to declare against the lion by bringing up the "fallen" as a reason why he cant be trusted.

 Dysartes wrote:
...that would imply the Church is aware of the Fallen, which is not a given.

I think that's a very small obstacle. If it specifically and categorically said somewhere they didn't.. then yeah that would be a ret con. But its not like GW has ever worried much about minor lack of information

Hecaton wrote:
If they do introduce another Primarch, it should definitely be a foil to Guilliman - either a cynical Lion or maybe, just to troll, an Alpharius who claims he was loyal all along.

That’s would be a good twist, to have a traitor primarch come back as a loyalist. Maybe omegon comes back as a loyalist and alpharius as a renegade or CSM

The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

I prefer no other loyalist Primarch at all. It adds to Guilliman's loneliness and isolation if he has no peers. He is the only one walking around in 40K with memories of the Great Crusade and 30K (not counting the daemon Primarchs or other immortal beings). Guilliman is thematically the one sane man fighting the insanity of the Imperium, and he has to act strong for all his followers and to avoid showing weakness to his enemies. He can never rest or let down his guard, or confide in anyone that actually understands him as a peer.

Iracundus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

I prefer no other loyalist Primarch at all. It adds to Guilliman's loneliness and isolation if he has no peers. He is the only one walking around in 40K with memories of the Great Crusade and 30K (not counting the daemon Primarchs or other immortal beings). Guilliman is thematically the one sane man fighting the insanity of the Imperium, and he has to act strong for all his followers and to avoid showing weakness to his enemies. He can never rest or let down his guard, or confide in anyone that actually understands him as a peer.

Iracundus, Bjorn the Fell-Handed would like a word...

I feel like Alpharius/Omegon would still be around, but just doing their thing in the background. Too bad any plan would be countered by immediate action from robottle o Guinness.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I feel like Alpharius/Omegon would still be around, but just doing their thing in the background. Too bad any plan would be countered by immediate action from robottle o Guinness.

I was under the impression that one of the twins was confirmed as dead, but I could be wrong there.

Alpharius got shanked by Dorn and Omegon took up the mantle.
As for whether the "Alpharius" on Eskrador got "killed" by Guilliman, it's anyone's bet as to if the remaining twin actually died. The Alpha Legion were noted to have become incredibly violent after the fact and even drove the Ultramarines off-world before scattering into the wider Galaxy.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I feel like Alpharius/Omegon would still be around, but just doing their thing in the background. Too bad any plan would be countered by immediate action from robottle o Guinness.

I was under the impression that one of the twins was confirmed as dead, but I could be wrong there.

One of them could be dead, it’s a massive argument but the “killed” twin could easily be alive due to all the abilities AL have.
Regardless, one is for sure alive and out there, hopefully making g man crazy by making small clerical errors appear on his paperwork.

 Dysartes wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Dreadnought Ferrus?

Given the decapitation, I'd say it is unlikely - did the IH even manage to recover his body (and/or head) from Istvaan, or was it lost?

His skull ended up on horus' desk, where horus apparently talked to it.

It was clearly recovered as apparently returning ferrus skull was one thing RG offered the iron hands as a bribe to get them on side with the whole codex thing, though we don't know how HE got it.

Given 'Ghost Ferrus' appearing in the ranks of the first appearance of the Legion of the damned in master of mankind, its possible his skull is what ultimately becomes the Animus Malorem.

 Dysartes wrote:

Given the decapitation, I'd say it is unlikely - did the IH even manage to recover his body (and/or head) from Istvaan, or was it lost?

I think Fulgrim's got it and does the "Alas, poor Yorick" routine with it. Would make a worthy quest to get it back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrFickle wrote:
That’s would be a good twist, to have a traitor primarch come back as a loyalist. Maybe omegon comes back as a loyalist and alpharius as a renegade or CSM

Have the Lion come back and be like "No, the Fallen were my team all along." The shitstorm among DA players would be amazing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

Iracundus, Bjorn the Fell-Handed would like a word...

Has there ever been a meeting between Guilliman and Bjorn?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

It would also work well with someone else who could challenge Guilliman. They never got along very well and Rob was going on in the Imperium Secundus book how he'd take almost any other Primarch over the Lion when it came to "leading" Imperium Secundus.

With the way everything's been built up, it's very likely that the Lion will be next, probably fairly early in 10th, especially if we do get Angron with the World Eaters in 9th.

After that, I'm sure all the others will eventually come back in some way. Russ would be a good bet from a meta perspective to give another marine codex their Primarch. As well as one who could technically be on the Imperium side but be functionally uncontrollable and cause a lot of headaches.

Personally, if any where to come back I'd like to see either the Khan (my favorite Primarch) or Vulkan. Either of these could basically just be handwaved into showing up anyway.

Hecaton wrote:


Has there ever been a meeting between Guilliman and Bjorn?

Id be down for reading about that.

 Tawnis wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

It would also work well with someone else who could challenge Guilliman. They never got along very well and Rob was going on in the Imperium Secundus book how he'd take almost any other Primarch over the Lion when it came to "leading" Imperium Secundus.

With the way everything's been built up, it's very likely that the Lion will be next, probably fairly early in 10th, especially if we do get Angron with the World Eaters in 9th.

After that, I'm sure all the others will eventually come back in some way. Russ would be a good bet from a meta perspective to give another marine codex their Primarch. As well as one who could technically be on the Imperium side but be functionally uncontrollable and cause a lot of headaches.

Personally, if any where to come back I'd like to see either the Khan (my favorite Primarch) or Vulkan. Either of these could basically just be handwaved into showing up anyway.

I’d be very interested to see the background explore The Lion and Guilliman’s relationship in the modern era.

It’s my (by no means correct) understanding that in terms of warfare, the Lion was second only to Horus. So as a War Leader, Guilliman could do a lot worse than having The Lion leading the overall war effort in a very literal, front line way, whilst Guilliman (a fantastic Statesman) rallied the wider Imperium and starting to make real progress in terms of currently hypothetical reforms.

I do accept the criticism of this post’s concept that the fact Guilliman is on his own creates further despair.

But, in my previous bit in this very post? Guilliman as Regent, directing things, The Lion as the Man of Action? You don’t need to be a particularly good write to create tensions between the brothers with shadowing of Horus’ own fall.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Tawnis wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Lion makes the most narrative sense, as we the players know exactly where he is (The Rock) and that he’s in Stasis.

Being a Primarch, he’s likely healing from his wounds suffered during the destruction of Caliban. So all that really needs to happen is for the old Stasis Field to switched off, and Bob’s Your Aunty’s Live In Lover.

It would also work well with someone else who could challenge Guilliman. They never got along very well and Rob was going on in the Imperium Secundus book how he'd take almost any other Primarch over the Lion when it came to "leading" Imperium Secundus.

With the way everything's been built up, it's very likely that the Lion will be next, probably fairly early in 10th, especially if we do get Angron with the World Eaters in 9th.

After that, I'm sure all the others will eventually come back in some way. Russ would be a good bet from a meta perspective to give another marine codex their Primarch. As well as one who could technically be on the Imperium side but be functionally uncontrollable and cause a lot of headaches.

Personally, if any where to come back I'd like to see either the Khan (my favorite Primarch) or Vulkan. Either of these could basically just be handwaved into showing up anyway.

I’d be very interested to see the background explore The Lion and Guilliman’s relationship in the modern era.

It’s my (by no means correct) understanding that in terms of warfare, the Lion was second only to Horus. So as a War Leader, Guilliman could do a lot worse than having The Lion leading the overall war effort in a very literal, front line way, whilst Guilliman (a fantastic Statesman) rallied the wider Imperium and starting to make real progress in terms of currently hypothetical reforms.

I do accept the criticism of this post’s concept that the fact Guilliman is on his own creates further despair.

But, in my previous bit in this very post? Guilliman as Regent, directing things, The Lion as the Man of Action? You don’t need to be a particularly good write to create tensions between the brothers with shadowing of Horus’ own fall.

The Lion is also super suspicious of basically everyone, one of the reasons he would have made a poor Warmaster despite potentially being a better general than Horus.

This was clear in the HH series where he was initially super unimpressed with Guilliman’s Imperium Secundus plan and it took a lot of diplomacy (and putting Sanguinius in charge) to pacify him.

If the Lion came back to Guilliman doing essentially the same thing again but writ large and with himself in charge this time he’s likely to be incandescent. And he’s certainly not likely to take any sort of orders from Guilliman so you’d get some pretty massive infighting.

The Lion is definitely the best choice if you brought another loyalist back. I think even Russ is likely to be much more diplomatic than he would be.

I like to think it’s more a certain level of Pragmatism.

Guilliman and The Lion are both ultimately Loyal.

And remember. Despite a lot of nefarious activity by his former legion? The Lion is not, and has never been, party to that cover up.

Indeed, he was there. Not just for the breaking of Caliban, but the entire Heresy. If anyone other than Guilliman, possibly more than Guilliman knows a Legion can have it’s, well let’s call them failures purely for arguments sake, it’s The Lion.

There’s a lot of a pure and rare narrativium to mined right there.

I think this tread is an excellent demonstration of why bringing back another Primarch is a terrible idea. It would just make the setting even more wrap around the tedious and inane demigod man-child soap opera. There is already an entire book series and a dedicated separate game for that, how on Earth is that not enough?

 Dysartes wrote:

gungo wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dysartes wrote:

gungo wrote:
Every primarch coming back will be heavily flawed.
The crazed Wulven Logan
The 1 handed dorn
The mentally broken Corvus
The deranged vulkan
The undead sanguinus
And the corrupted lion el Johnson

We have no idea what state Leman Russ would be in these days - I can't rule out a Wulfen form, but I wouldn't assume it, either.

As noted above, Dorn having lost a hand shouldn't be a major issue - at the very least, cybernetics are a thing.

I'd be less worried about Corax's mental state, and more his shadow form, really.

I don't think we have any idea what Vulkan's mental state is like following the War of the Beast, do we, even assuming he survived?

Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus shouldn't make a return at all.

What evidence do you that the Lion is corrupted?

And I find it interesting that you forgot about the Khan altogether, though he'd probably like it that way.

There is literally Almost nothing known about what happened to khan… he chased after some raiders and disappeared into webway or something.. no one knows…
Vulkan is a perpetual that was killed over and over until he went insane..
Corax went emo into the warp
Lion was reportedly taken by the watchers in the dark but he’s the least known about… it basically comes down to is Luther lying?
Sanguinius is reportedly in stasis too…
Ferrus should be dead.. he was decapitated.
We really don’t know how much of dorn is around as all that is left of him was a hand.

Guilliman was literally the least broken primarch.

If we don't know where the Khan ended up in the Webway, we can't definitively say what state he's in - he could be chilling in the Black Library, he could be stuck in the pits of Commoragh, he could be looking for somewhere to refuel whatever vehicle he was riding when he entered the place...

Vulkan was definitely messed up by the end of the Heresy - to those who read the material when he crops up in The War of the Beast, did he seem like he'd recovered at all by that point? If so, the extra 6-7k years since that war may have helped even more (again, assuming he survived that death).

Going by the last story we've seen him in, Corax seems to still be loyal, and has leaned into the shadow manipulation stuff he had to go hunting his Traitor brethren within the Eye.

We know as an out-of-universe party that the Lion was taken by the Watchers, and that he is stashed away in The Rock. He definitely appears to be the obvious choice to wake up if you need to bring a second Loyalist Primarch into the fold.

As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Aye, the current status of Dorn is an interesting one - and he's one I don't see voluntarily vanishing if he just lost a hand. There's a question mark hanging over him, for sure, but that's true of most of these thanks to the logic of fiction when it comes to deaths...

gungo wrote:
your assuming Luther and cypher are bad… they haven’t been corrupted by chaos in all these years which lends me to beleive they aren’t exactly following chaos either.

I'll grant you that Cypher is, well, a cipher in that regard, and was at least non-Chaos enough to not get smited by Guilliman's crew during the events that lead to 8th - The Gathering Storm, wasn't it? - but Luther is definitely corrupted. After all, there's a reason a Daemon Prince broken him out of The Rock, and they're teaming up to unite an army of the corrupted Fallen. I'd also note that it isn't a given that any individual Fallen has been corrupted either, but from how things have been described, I'd image the majority are.

 Argive wrote:
Something that could work is Lion returning, everyone is happy. Until he tells the ecclesiarch to F off and does his own thing without telling anyone anything. Th ecclesiarchy would then try to instigate a power coup and force g man to declare against the lion by bringing up the "fallen" as a reason why he cant be trusted.

...that would imply the Church is aware of the Fallen, which is not a given.

Tryzan heavily implies he has at least one of the primarchs on ice somewhere….. at least one of those lost boys is a statue in his museum is my guess.

Regarding sanguinus I Wouldn’t be surprised if they retcon it to being mostly dead

Ferrus is dead… I don’t even think they got his head back… i mean they can claim they made him into a dreadnaught but that would be stupid. When all that was left was a skull…

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I like to think it’s more a certain level of Pragmatism.

Guilliman and The Lion are both ultimately Loyal.

And remember. Despite a lot of nefarious activity by his former legion? The Lion is not, and has never been, party to that cover up.

Indeed, he was there. Not just for the breaking of Caliban, but the entire Heresy. If anyone other than Guilliman, possibly more than Guilliman knows a Legion can have it’s, well let’s call them failures purely for arguments sake, it’s The Lion.

There’s a lot of a pure and rare narrativium to mined right there.

Zarkov said most of what I was going to in my reply, but I did want to add this.

That is part of why the tension would work well, even though they are both totally loyal, Lion suspects everyone. IMHO there is nothing Rob could ever do to earn his trust, nothing I think anyone could ever do. I would really like to see their dynamic, Lion having to come to terms with his distrust, knowing that if he moved against Rob in any way, it would mean the end for what's left of the Imperium, yet still not being comfortable with all the power he'd amassed.

Lord Zarkov wrote:


The Lion is definitely the best choice if you brought another loyalist back. I think even Russ is likely to be much more diplomatic than he would be.

Yeah, I think between those three it would be Russ who was the peacemaker, ironically, considering his personality and relationships with both of them.

Wyldhunt wrote:

leerm02 wrote:
I think there is a good chance that we will get a second "returned" primarch and then have a second Horus Heresy style civil war.

Think about it: GW likes making money, HH has been rather successful, and right now we have a whole bunch of Imperial factions that are all mostly buddy-buddy.

You throw in a second "returned primarch" and you have a perfect excuse to split the Imperium, differentiating the factions more and adding a lot of the narrative hook that drove the HH.

That's my prediction anyway!

Respectfully, I hope GW doesn't go that direction. They already have HH (a new edition even) for players that want to smash primarchs together. If 40k started focusing on a civil war where primarchs fight each other, that would be a bit too redundant for my taste.

And it wouldn’t add much monetary wise for them.
“A primarch model coming back and a few campaign books” well that fits whether he’s loyal or not.
So is what it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tawnis wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I like to think it’s more a certain level of Pragmatism.

Guilliman and The Lion are both ultimately Loyal.

And remember. Despite a lot of nefarious activity by his former legion? The Lion is not, and has never been, party to that cover up.

Indeed, he was there. Not just for the breaking of Caliban, but the entire Heresy. If anyone other than Guilliman, possibly more than Guilliman knows a Legion can have it’s, well let’s call them failures purely for arguments sake, it’s The Lion.

There’s a lot of a pure and rare narrativium to mined right there.

But surely the Lion would listen to his father?

Zarkov said most of what I was going to in my reply, but I did want to add this.

That is part of why the tension would work well, even though they are both totally loyal, Lion suspects everyone. IMHO there is nothing Rob could ever do to earn his trust, nothing I think anyone could ever do. I would really like to see their dynamic, Lion having to come to terms with his distrust, knowing that if he moved against Rob in any way, it would mean the end for what's left of the Imperium, yet still not being comfortable with all the power he'd amassed.

When he's alone he talks to the ghost or hallucination of Sanguinius. I know this.

gungo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

gungo wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dysartes wrote:

gungo wrote:
Every primarch coming back will be heavily flawed.
The crazed Wulven Logan
The 1 handed dorn
The mentally broken Corvus
The deranged vulkan
The undead sanguinus
And the corrupted lion el Johnson

We have no idea what state Leman Russ would be in these days - I can't rule out a Wulfen form, but I wouldn't assume it, either.

As noted above, Dorn having lost a hand shouldn't be a major issue - at the very least, cybernetics are a thing.

I'd be less worried about Corax's mental state, and more his shadow form, really.

I don't think we have any idea what Vulkan's mental state is like following the War of the Beast, do we, even assuming he survived?

Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus shouldn't make a return at all.

What evidence do you that the Lion is corrupted?

And I find it interesting that you forgot about the Khan altogether, though he'd probably like it that way.

There is literally Almost nothing known about what happened to khan… he chased after some raiders and disappeared into webway or something.. no one knows…
Vulkan is a perpetual that was killed over and over until he went insane..
Corax went emo into the warp
Lion was reportedly taken by the watchers in the dark but he’s the least known about… it basically comes down to is Luther lying?
Sanguinius is reportedly in stasis too…
Ferrus should be dead.. he was decapitated.
We really don’t know how much of dorn is around as all that is left of him was a hand.

Guilliman was literally the least broken primarch.

If we don't know where the Khan ended up in the Webway, we can't definitively say what state he's in - he could be chilling in the Black Library, he could be stuck in the pits of Commoragh, he could be looking for somewhere to refuel whatever vehicle he was riding when he entered the place...

Vulkan was definitely messed up by the end of the Heresy - to those who read the material when he crops up in The War of the Beast, did he seem like he'd recovered at all by that point? If so, the extra 6-7k years since that war may have helped even more (again, assuming he survived that death).

Going by the last story we've seen him in, Corax seems to still be loyal, and has leaned into the shadow manipulation stuff he had to go hunting his Traitor brethren within the Eye.

We know as an out-of-universe party that the Lion was taken by the Watchers, and that he is stashed away in The Rock. He definitely appears to be the obvious choice to wake up if you need to bring a second Loyalist Primarch into the fold.

As noted by another poster, Sanguinius' corpse went into stasis, but Horus had definitely killed him before hand - though there is a chance that this may get tweaked when the Siege of Terra series reaches its climax. Assuming he stays dead, he and Ferrus should remain dead, IMO, though I do kinda like the idea of Legion of the Damned Ferrus as a legit option - just not flesh-and-blood Ferrus.

Aye, the current status of Dorn is an interesting one - and he's one I don't see voluntarily vanishing if he just lost a hand. There's a question mark hanging over him, for sure, but that's true of most of these thanks to the logic of fiction when it comes to deaths...

gungo wrote:
your assuming Luther and cypher are bad… they haven’t been corrupted by chaos in all these years which lends me to beleive they aren’t exactly following chaos either.

I'll grant you that Cypher is, well, a cipher in that regard, and was at least non-Chaos enough to not get smited by Guilliman's crew during the events that lead to 8th - The Gathering Storm, wasn't it? - but Luther is definitely corrupted. After all, there's a reason a Daemon Prince broken him out of The Rock, and they're teaming up to unite an army of the corrupted Fallen. I'd also note that it isn't a given that any individual Fallen has been corrupted either, but from how things have been described, I'd image the majority are.

 Argive wrote:
Something that could work is Lion returning, everyone is happy. Until he tells the ecclesiarch to F off and does his own thing without telling anyone anything. Th ecclesiarchy would then try to instigate a power coup and force g man to declare against the lion by bringing up the "fallen" as a reason why he cant be trusted.

...that would imply the Church is aware of the Fallen, which is not a given.

Tryzan heavily implies he has at least one of the primarchs on ice somewhere….. at least one of those lost boys is a statue in his museum is my guess.

Regarding sanguinus I Wouldn’t be surprised if they retcon it to being mostly dead

Ferrus is dead… I don’t even think they got his head back… i mean they can claim they made him into a dreadnaught but that would be stupid. When all that was left was a skull…

Trazyn has a clone of fulgrim in his museum, is that what you are thinking?