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They are entirely redundant in that they are elite infantry based, with heavy mech support in dreadnaughts, that shine in upclose combat scenarios, and are extremely CP dependent.

The only difference between us and SM now is our inate 4++, which is a pointless reason to make us an independant faction. Everything and it's mother can dish out mortals or ignore invulns anyway, so who cares?

PenitentJake wrote:
Custodes' role is twofold: First and foremost, defend Terra. I don't think there are any Chapters pledged to do the same, and even if there were, they'd be a mere 1000 fighters.

Somewhere I can hear the gnashing of Imperial Fists' players' teeth.

Grey Knights need storm bolters that aren't a complete joke.

 Just_Breathe wrote:
Grey Knights need storm bolters that aren't a complete joke.

Grey Knights get Storm Bolters, when other Marines get Boltguns. A Wolf Guard with a similar loadout (Power Sword and Storm Bolter) is 28 points a model compared to 22, and the Power Sword they have isn't master-crafted. Strike Squad is also a Troop, and has a psychic power and can deep strike. Seems balanced.

If I was rebooting I'd do an Inquisition faction where GKs, DW, Custodes, etc were all elite choices. And Custodes would be like, 1 custodes.

But I'm not in charge so ah well.

I mean honestly once you have primarchs (both spikey and smooth) and baby titans taking the field who's to say Custodes don't make sense.

Just figure every tabletop game is the Ultimate Battle For the Fate of the Universe if it takes the sting off.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If I was rebooting I'd do an Inquisition faction where GKs, DW, Custodes, etc were all elite choices. And Custodes would be like, 1 custodes.

But I'm not in charge so ah well.

I mean honestly once you have primarchs (both spikey and smooth) and baby titans taking the field who's to say Custodes don't make sense.

Just figure every tabletop game is the Ultimate Battle For the Fate of the Universe if it takes the sting off.

See, this is essentially what I mean. Lump all the red headed kids into a "this codex will never get published, why are we even writing this?" book that will only be sold through a 5 issue run of White Dwarf. Each page 30-35 will be 5 pages, and at the end you will have all 25 pages, with such hits as:
Every named inquisitor, and the generic ones too
The Grey Knight Serfs
The Custodes
DeathStrike Missile Launchers
Servitors
Regular old Boxy Coffin Dreads
The Elysium Drop Troops
and Everyone's favorite useless models,
EVERY. LANDRAIDER. EVER.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Custodes: A meaningful place in the game. We are currently just over costed Marines. We shoot like crap, our attacks are worthless against anything with multi-wound or -1 to damage, and our ability to hold objectives is doo doo. The majority of our plastic models are not worth their points, and we rely entirely on over priced FW models.

Considering their place in the setting is redundant it makes sense their place in the game is too.

You aren't wrong, and I fully admit they need to be removed to be a fluff only faction, but at the rate GW is throwing crap at the walls, no way they are giving up a faction.

Back in 7th edition, one of the last codexes released for the edition was superb and the idea could be used again to make Custodes better and bring them into the game in their own way. That codex was Imperial Agents.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/12/10/codex-imperial-agents-review/

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If I was rebooting I'd do an Inquisition faction where GKs, DW, Custodes, etc were all elite choices. And Custodes would be like, 1 custodes.

But I'm not in charge so ah well.

I mean honestly once you have primarchs (both spikey and smooth) and baby titans taking the field who's to say Custodes don't make sense.

Just figure every tabletop game is the Ultimate Battle For the Fate of the Universe if it takes the sting off.

I wouldn't mind this at all.
More than one Imperial Agent in my army?

Awesome.

I would like Marine vehicles to be viable again. Right now it seems like we are still paying for the sins of Iron Hands mechanised armies at the end of 8th edition.

 Karhedron wrote:
I would like Marine vehicles to be viable again. Right now it seems like we are still paying for the sins of Iron Hands mechanised armies at the end of 8th edition.

I assume you mean the non-dread vehicles?

I main Mono-Khorne, it is a nightmare to not have both Shooting and Psychic phases, while not having the durability to get to Fight phases consistently.

I would love more anti-psyker resistance, and much better saves agains BS, or even army wide invulnerable saves — maybe we the Demons are immaterial and harder to shoot from afar, to force short distance conflict.

Or make our units BRUTAL in melee: Skarbrand and Bloodthirsters should be way more harder to kill and absolute blender in melee. Also gives us Slaughterbrutes and Khorgoraths as well.

If Skull Cannons are going to be our only shooting focused unit, make it devastating, either with decent shooting, or a mixed shooting/mobile/melee platform.

For BA
- reboxing the BA command squad box with a sprue of jump packs so we can have jump packs for our company vets, company champion, apothecary and company ancient again.

A 9th edition codex.

Necrons: just give us a Canoptek HQ already!

Unaligned: an HQ of some kind (personally I'd request a Drone, along with removing the 0-1 on Spindle Drones), so we can finally run small unaligned forces!

For Orkz

1st and most importantly: A design team that both understands orkz and wants them to be a successful faction as opposed to the NPC race that they occasionally give a good build to by accident, which the tournament players then immediately screams "NERF".

2nd: If you can't have #1 (because lord knows we haven't for decades) then orkz are missing a useful Mob Rule. Current iteration of Mob Rule is pathetic, and in hundreds of games of 9th I have successfully used it 1 time and it saved a grand total of 9pts.

3rd: Useful shooting. To fix that I would bring back Dakka Dakka Dakka into the ork game. except this time its "Orkz always hit on 5s" Losing 50% of your armies shooting vs some opponents is just flat out ridiculous. Making it so Orkz always hit on 5s means other armies -1 to hit isn't as catastrophic for us but it can also serve a purpose vs our more shooty builds, +1 to hit for Freebootas as an example, and our better guns like Mek gunz would still be hit with -1 bringing them to 5+.

4th: Squigz/Snakebites competent rules.
a. Make Transfungus (Transhuman) work across the board for Snakebites. Its current rule of only wound on 4s against S7 and below is stupid since orkz are T5 which means it only works on S6 and S7 weapons and the rare +1 to wound mechanic.
b. give snakebites a natural 6+ FNP as well and allow for stacking mechanic with painboy/boss.
c. give units with squigs in them the fething squig key word.
d. reduce the price of beastboss on squig and killrig by 10-20%

5th: Useful vehicle saves: Improve all Ork vehicle saves by 1 and bring back the KFF to be a 5+ save ALWAYS with the strat making it a 4+ for 1 turn.

SemperMortis wrote:


3rd: Useful shooting.

That's interesting. I think orks shooting is ok, it's close combat that is actually a joke. And for an army that is supposed to be badass in melee that's something really hard to accept.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


3rd: Useful shooting.

That's interesting. I think orks shooting is ok, it's close combat that is actually a joke. And for an army that is supposed to be badass in melee that's something really hard to accept.

Shoota boyz are functionally useless
Burna Boyz are functionally useless
Tankbusta boyz are used for their squigz and hammers not their shooting
Flashgitz aren't taken because their shooting isn't worth what GW prices them at.

And pretty much everything else runs headlong into the problem of a single -1 to hit reduces dmg output by 50%!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With that said, Ork CC isn't in a good place. It wasn't in a terrible place compared to shooting but it wasn't great. And AoC neutered that even more so.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Designers who understand the army's mechanics.

So I decided to really sit down and make a post expounding upon this.

I'm going to use AdMech as my example, so bear with me.

Looking at the Warlord Traits for Tech-Priests, all of the ones which affect other units? They affect <Forge World> Cult Mechanicus Core units only.

You know what has Core from the Cult Mechanicus side of things?
Electro-Priests. Not the Servitors that are supposed to form the core of the Cult side of things...just the Electro-Priests.

In a book that's already divided into 2 subfactions, one would think that the designers would have actually gone through and spent some time sussing out how the army should work...especially since it's not like they kept Knights in the book like there was before.


Anyways, my army is missing some genuine care and concern fixated within it. They could have easily done, to address the bullgak that would come up from their changes of special weapon costs, some additional units of Skitarii specialized towards certain things--or even added in a Primus as an Elite/back-up Skitarii HQ choice toting some special weapons/wargear.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


3rd: Useful shooting.

That's interesting. I think orks shooting is ok, it's close combat that is actually a joke. And for an army that is supposed to be badass in melee that's something really hard to accept.

Shoota boyz are functionally useless
Burna Boyz are functionally useless
Tankbusta boyz are used for their squigz and hammers not their shooting
Flashgitz aren't taken because their shooting isn't worth what GW prices them at.

And pretty much everything else runs headlong into the problem of a single -1 to hit reduces dmg output by 50%!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With that said, Ork CC isn't in a good place. It wasn't in a terrible place compared to shooting but it wasn't great. And AoC neutered that even more so.

All true, but bikes, koptas, flyers, buggies, mek gunz... all have decent shooting. Bomb squigs are also a shooting tool and a quite effective one. I can't possibly think of a really good close combat ork unit, barring some characters. Meganobz, our supposed heavy hitters and my favorite ork models, don't really hit that hard. A lot of other stuff is either a wet noodle or too slow to achieve something reliably. The close combat oriented ork lists are all about board control and tarpitting, which is a style of playing I can't stand. That's why I play shooting oriented ork lists.

Proppa tanks - Orks.

Seriously, we used to have looted wagons, big trakks, and all sorts. Now, we have trukks, battlewagons, and buggies.

Why on earth would orks not go down the route of putting as much armour and as much gun on a vehicle as possible and then driving it at the enemy?

All I can say is....

"Dude, where is my Traitor Guard"

I have IA13 but no army...abeit some headway has been made with the latest Kill Team release and BSF.

Additional points:

IA13 is no longer valid as I understand; and

I haven't the time for kitbashing.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
All I can say is....

"Dude, where is my Traitor Guard"

I have IA13 but no army...abeit some headway has been made with the latest Kill Team release and BSF.

Additional points:

IA13 is no longer valid as I understand; and

I haven't the time for kitbashing.

Renegades and Heretics is Legends now. Compared to what they had before it's nothing, but, personally, I'm gonna be building a R&H force. Just a small 500ish points force.

After reading this article about Ukraine I really want more technicals for the GSC.

https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/why-mad-max-style-technicals-have-become-a-staple-of-ukraines-fight-against-russia/

I guess the dune buggy thing counts but I want something more haphazzard and with more gun options.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
After reading this article about Ukraine I really want more technicals for the GSC.

https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/why-mad-max-style-technicals-have-become-a-staple-of-ukraines-fight-against-russia/

I guess the dune buggy thing counts but I want something more haphazzard and with more gun options.

Looks like someone from AQX (Al-Quida in x=Place) is training militia fighters. That is the exact same method they have been using to kick our ass, the Russians asses, and the Iraqi Army's asses for the past 50 years. Weld a rocket pod onto a pickup, put a slant lever on it, drive it to the middle of field, fire, have spotter report, fire again, log results. When it's sighted, drive to within 1-2 miles of target, fire for effect, then drive away like hell, to avoid counter battery fire from IDF. Tried, true, and extremely effective method of harassment attacks for little to no actual cost. Comparably, a Rus Mobile Arty platform like the 2S19 Msta costs between 2-3 million each, and about 50k per shot, in USD.

A Crappy old pickup with a welded rocket tube is about 80k total. If that.

Well, my Iron Hands are missing a Primaris HQ that has a standard Power Axe. I currently can't use the Iron Hands relic weapon without taking a firstborn HQ.

Everything