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 Jadenim wrote:
I can’t even imagine how that would work? It’s one step away from suggesting competitive DND.

Well, about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%26D_Championship_Series

We havnet seen it yet. But have seen all previous attempts at making the bestest newest fully up to date rulebook haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
About comptetitive neceomunda, feels like the majority of list building discussions online are pulling more or less in that direction. Some new players come from 40k or other games with that mindset.

if GW ever made a game that really should be in a ring binder its Necromunda (and Mordhiem), sell the base rules in a binder, with a nice set of dividers, have all the expansions as a pad with a cover, have the inside of the binder include reference tables in plastic pockets (so as to be replacable)

then handle the printing so no physical page has more than one rules "section" so individual pages can be replaced as well as other pages added.

annual update with errata reprinted pages, new tables etc, then all the add ones designed to slot into an ever growing and ever changing book

leopard wrote:
if GW ever made a game that really should be in a ring binder its Necromunda (and Mordhiem), sell the base rules in a binder, with a nice set of dividers, have all the expansions as a pad with a cover, have the inside of the binder include reference tables in plastic pockets (so as to be replacable)

then handle the printing so no physical page has more than one rules "section" so individual pages can be replaced as well as other pages added.

annual update with errata reprinted pages, new tables etc, then all the add ones designed to slot into an ever growing and ever changing book

You just reminded me of a long time ago, when young-me purchased a copy of Waaagh The Orks. I didn't know that the pages were unbinded until I got home and opened it, I felt cheated

From a practical viewpoint you are correct, of course, but the part of me that likes nice, shiny things doesn't ever want to buy an unbinded book again

I like the rules changes presented in the link.

However i cant shake the feeling this book is sold really to count the amount of players playing the game. I might be wrong ofcourse.

I will buy the book just like i bought every publication and big box so far. I play the game very rarely as i am too much invested in the HH system but i know i will come back to it.

leopard wrote:
if GW ever made a game that really should be in a ring binder its Necromunda (and Mordhiem), sell the base rules in a binder, with a nice set of dividers, have all the expansions as a pad with a cover, have the inside of the binder include reference tables in plastic pockets (so as to be replacable)

then handle the printing so no physical page has more than one rules "section" so individual pages can be replaced as well as other pages added.

annual update with errata reprinted pages, new tables etc, then all the add ones designed to slot into an ever growing and ever changing book

I do have pages from the old, soft-back N17 books in binders - the scenarios that haven't been reprinted, along with whichever pieces of art weren't reprinted in newer books. Binned the other pages.

This is rulebook number... 8? 9? Or has it successfully reached double digits?

Voss wrote:
This is rulebook number... 8? 9? Or has it successfully reached double digits?

It's only the second big, 'proper' hardback rulebook, if that helps?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Voss wrote:
This is rulebook number... 8? 9? Or has it successfully reached double digits?

It's only the second big, 'proper' hardback rulebook, if that helps?

Not at all.

There's been quite a few core rulebooks for Necro, far more than 2.

Big oops wrong thread

Voss wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Voss wrote:
This is rulebook number... 8? 9? Or has it successfully reached double digits?

It's only the second big, 'proper' hardback rulebook, if that helps?

Not at all.

There's been quite a few core rulebooks for Necro, far more than 2.

There have been other books that have included the core rules (all in boxed sets) but this is only the second actual "Core" Rulebook this edition.





.

By that standard, BB2016 didn't have a core rulebook because it relied on the boxed rulebook of 2016. Likewise with the first year of Necromunda 2017-1018 only had boxed rulebook. In total there are:
N17 (boxed/demo)
N18 (standalone)
N19 (boxed)
N21 (boxed/demo)
N22 (boxed)
N23 (standalone)

6 rulebooks in 6 years. All uniquely different. That's not healthy for any game. In comparison current and previous editions of Kill Team and Blood Bowl got 1 rulebook (per edition).

Ouch. Seeing it written out like this, it's fairly alarming. I am just getting into Necromunda and I'm excited for the new book, but I've already found lots of inconsistencies in the the book I have and it was worrying.

Yeah, that's pretty daming if they're on a yearly just different enough to be inconvienent edition schedule.

5 starter sets (IIRC) and two main rulebooks, including this one.

Not quite double digits yet.

No one needed to buy all those books. Any one of them would do, but if you did, you did get something for your trouble like a unique campaign.

This new rulebook, available separately instead of in an expensive box set, is only a good thing for the game after the last stand alone hardcover was printed 5 years ago and due for an update.

"Good thing" is relative.

If it starts invalidating tons of books, necessitating a complete new set of House Books (like I said, 3rd and sometimes 4th time over for the main 6 gang), then I wouldn't call it good.

We just need more information about how much this is invalidating.

The glass is for sure half empty.

Don’t worry. People will keep buying it, if for nothing else than the belief that GW might make necromunda a real boy if we’re all good enough and keep purchasing.


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Also I would love to see Baxx list the gang supplements that way to show what happens when GW supports your game

I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

I honestly think necromunda is an experiment, just like a lot of their product lines. How much churning can a game support as long as you don’t declare anything as a new edition? Answer: A helluva lot.

AoS is the proving ground for 40k, for example.

BB is their slow dissection experiment. It began with the relaunch of a very closely aligned version of the living rules and then they split the community with second season, making it almost compatible but adding a passing stat as their means of taking back over the conversation.

How few boxes and how high a price to build profitability while lowering production, transportation and storage costs.

If they anounce in the future the end of Necromunda all remaining gang boxes will be sold in no time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Good thing" is relative.

If it starts invalidating tons of books, necessitating a complete new set of House Books (like I said, 3rd and sometimes 4th time over for the main 6 gang), then I wouldn't call it good.

We just need more information about how much this is invalidating.

while this is true, indeed very true, from what they have said it doesn't sound like the sort of changes that would invalidate the gang books

of course we only have the bits GW have put out, for example they could decide you no longer pay for upgrades and that to play the scenarios now requires a further deck of cards, which will be limited edition and printed incorrectly

It should be obvious this is a summary of core rules. All non-universal rules will be unaffected. Known changes are XP boost, TP/BM, shooting blast nerf, charge blind nerf, injury, permanent injury, doc post battle and skill rebalance

What we don't know are which old rules to be copy-pasted without accounting for FAQ updates, how much will be messed up Just by being reprinted, incorrect weapon ststs etc. The normal dirt we get in every book.

Also, how much is trimmed off? GW is never going to publish anything complete. Some stuff will be lost in the prosess. Good example is Trading post.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

It never used to be this way. So what changed?

In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene. It's easier to create gaming balance when you have limited or no options in game to speak of.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

It never used to be this way. So what changed?

In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene. It's easier to create gaming balance when you have limited or no options in game to speak of.

that and a desire to stop people using 3rd party models

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene.

It's about control. CHS shook GW to its core, and made them realise that they don't own all the things they think they own.

Ever since then everything has been about controlling what's in their game so that they can be the only ones that produce them. It's why we have no model/no rule. It's why unit options are now kit-based. It's why squad sizes are becoming increasingly box-based. It's why Warcry and Combat Patrol are the way they are. It's why there's a "minimum table size". It's one of the reasons Age of Sigmar happened, and why we have Aelves, Orruks and Ogors rather than Elves, Orcs and Ogres. It's even why they changed from 28mm bases to 32mm bases - every third party and his dog made 28mm bases, but no one made 32mm, so GW changed to that so that everyone would have to dance to their tune.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene.

It's about control. CHS shook GW to its core, and made them realise that they don't own all the things they think they own.

Ever since then everything has been about controlling what's in their game so that they can be the only ones that produce them. It's why we have no model/no rule. It's why unit options are now kit-based. It's why squad sizes are becoming increasingly box-based. It's why Warcry and Combat Patrol are the way they are. It's why there's a "minimum table size". It's one of the reasons Age of Sigmar happened, and why we have Aelves, Orruks and Ogors rather than Elves, Orcs and Ogres. It's even why they changed from 28mm bases to 32mm bases - every third party and his dog made 28mm bases, but no one made 32mm, so GW changed to that so that everyone would have to dance to their tune.

Weren't bases 25mm or was that just circular? I didn't play fantasy so don't know if they used 28mm square there in the last couple of editions and that's what you're referring to. I fully admit that I never actually measured either and just took companies at their word on the measurements.

 warboss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene.

It's about control. CHS shook GW to its core, and made them realise that they don't own all the things they think they own.

Ever since then everything has been about controlling what's in their game so that they can be the only ones that produce them. It's why we have no model/no rule. It's why unit options are now kit-based. It's why squad sizes are becoming increasingly box-based. It's why Warcry and Combat Patrol are the way they are. It's why there's a "minimum table size". It's one of the reasons Age of Sigmar happened, and why we have Aelves, Orruks and Ogors rather than Elves, Orcs and Ogres. It's even why they changed from 28mm bases to 32mm bases - every third party and his dog made 28mm bases, but no one made 32mm, so GW changed to that so that everyone would have to dance to their tune.

Weren't bases 25mm or was that just circular? I didn't play fantasy so don't know if they used 28mm square there in the last couple of editions and that's what you're referring to. I fully admit that I never actually measured either and just took companies at their word on the measurements.

Yes, he meant 25mm bases.

28mm were just added to the mix when Warcry came out, and have been replacing 25mm where they haven't just jumping up to 32mm.

Thanks. I really didn't know 28mm bases were a thing whether in core games or more niche boxed games.