Horus Heresy / 30K N&R

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**lord_blackfang**

Dudeface wrote:

- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GW hq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at

This sounds like complete nonsense, what does "it exists" mean? The tools have been cut and they cast one up to stare at but after paying 99.9% of the costs of production up front they're afraid to start selling it?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Definitely sounds like nonsense.

Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense. Even if you released it and sold relatively few? The tooling isn’t that expensive, so it wouldn’t take long to recoup its production costs at all.

**CragHack**

Tidy up would be good, but only if they released all armies at the same time. Having to wait 6 months to be able to play Custodes (and get rules for Sisters models that don't even exist, lol) is nonsense.

**beast_gts**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.

Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?

But yeah, it fails the sniff test...

**Dawnbringer**

beast_gts wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?

But yeah, it fails the sniff test...

Yeah, depends on what is meant by 'existing'. If it's just digital files then sure, I'd believe it. If it exists physically, then I'd say it's a 3D print (which I believe they do as tests, so could see it). But zero chance they've tooled it and are now wondering if it's financially viable.

**Dudeface**

beast_gts wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?

But yeah, it fails the sniff test...

That's what I took it to mean tbh, they have it, they can enter mass production but aren't sure how to market/sell atm.

Edit: Imagine if it comes out in a HH branded box and no 40k rules for example, as we know they don't like to do cross range releases.

**Dryaktylus**

Dudeface wrote:
Given mechnicum will drop before next summer (which is neither a 40k nor an AoS year) then it might be a fair point to rebalance having the core of 3 factions done.

Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.

I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.

**Kanluwen**

Dudeface wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?

But yeah, it fails the sniff test...

That's what I took it to mean tbh, they have it, they can enter mass production but aren't sure how to market/sell atm.

Edit: Imagine if it comes out in a HH branded box and no 40k rules for example, as we know they don't like to do cross range releases.

Frankly, it feels like a thing that was meant to happen ages ago. When the Skitarii codex dropped, there's a Warhound(and an Enginseer, who didn't appear in either book--they literally had to add the Enginseer and basic Servitors in via the Imperial Agents codex) in the opening art.

I wouldn't be shocked if the issue is they don't think it would be well-received getting released as something like the larger Knights, with different weapons locked to specific SKUs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dryaktylus wrote:

Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.

I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.

Solar Auxilia didn't "just" get the Sentinels. They added the Lifeward section as well.

**lord_blackfang**

Oh I bet they've had the sprues laid out for years... hence this being a nothingburger. Either it's going to production or it's not, I can't see there being different substates of "not being in production" so meaningfully distinct they warrant leaking

On the Mk2 box, if that's from a different source, I look forward to it. More for the terminators than for the Mk2, albeit I also kinda expect that to actually be upscaled Cataphractii or Tartarus, not Saturnine.

**Dudeface**

Dryaktylus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Given mechnicum will drop before next summer (which is neither a 40k nor an AoS year) then it might be a fair point to rebalance having the core of 3 factions done.

Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.

I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.

I fully understand the factions were done from a rules writing perspective, but it's the optics and marketing that make the big change. They just blew open a game known commonly for being marines vs marines with new factions to people who didn't want to buy FW etc. this is a good time and platform for them to try and grab new players.

**lord_blackfang**

Unfortunately HH isn't getting GW's best and brightest assigned to its rules writing, so any new edition is at least as likely to get worse than better. From a marketing standpoint, it does make sense to release what is intended as a powerup for Auxilia and Mechanicum, but invalidating expensive hardcovers with something that might end up weaker is a big risk.

**Undead_Love-Machine**

I really hope that those rumours aren't true, especially the part about no more FW resin.

Fine detail on faces would be lost, there are some things that simply aren't as good in plastic.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

From Valrak’s FB page.

The thought plickens.

**Gert**

The command squad was coming with special transfer sheets, wasn't it?

Also, anyone expecting a new edition of HH is huffing serious paint.

**lord_blackfang**

Sallies and IW, check... but Fists also?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’d suspect the full sheet also shows Sons of Horus, so those used to getting their transfers that way and not paying £22 for a pretty if of largely mixed usefulness continue to do so.

**Dryaktylus**

Kanluwen wrote:

Dryaktylus wrote:

Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.

I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.

Solar Auxilia didn't "just" get the Sentinels. They added the Lifeward section as well.

Ah yes. Though it's a 0-1 unit without own kit you build with leftover Legate Marshal parts or Auxilia commanders if you don't want to give them heavy void armour. It's like one of those kitbash units from the exemplary battles.

**The Phazer**

Dudeface wrote:
Unsure if we're up to date on valrak rumours but as of yesterday for HH:

Reiterates high confidence in these on his side:

- box with Mk2 and saturnine reiterated, but confirmed they're painted/themed around sallies and IW.

- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition

- angron (mortal) to be the first HH plastic primarch

- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GW hq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at

- FW want to be off resin in 4-5 years, he does himself point out the new characters sort of fly in the face of this though

He said that he was very confident that the MK2 and Saturnine box existing was correct and that source is the very reliable one going back to the Black Templar release, but that the other rumours were from a different source.

I think the ones from the newer source are bunk. GW will barely get rid of Finecast in five years, never mind Specialist Games. They're still releasing new product!

**Dudeface**

Gert wrote:
The command squad was coming with special transfer sheets, wasn't it?

Also, anyone expecting a new edition of HH is huffing serious paint.

Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.

**Dawnbringer**

Dudeface wrote:
Gert wrote:
The command squad was coming with special transfer sheets, wasn't it?

Also, anyone expecting a new edition of HH is huffing serious paint.

Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.

They could actually release Old World. Ha.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Could be Battle Fleet Gothic for all we know.

**morganfreeman**

I call BS on a new edition of HH that fast. Especially as "clean-up", when that's something that could be done with FAQs or some such.

That said, if it does turn out to be true, then I'd purely be into heresy for the modelling perspective. HH not having the chase-the-dragon edition release churn is part of the big appeal, and if that goes out the window then so do I.

**beast_gts**

Dudeface wrote:
- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition

I'm wondering if 'edition' is the wrong word here, and they mean a new box set to replace Age of Darkness with a slightly tweaked rulebook - mirroring how Necromunda does things?

**No One Important**

A new rulebook that combined all the special rules from the core book and the libers into a single place would be very handy.

**morganfreeman**

No One Important wrote:
A new rulebook that combined all the special rules from the core book and the libers into a single place would be very handy.

That I agree with. A rulebook which included FAQ / clarifications, and had all the special rules compiled, would be nice.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

And like, had an index and ingredients page, so we don’t have to flip flop constantly playing “find the stupid rule”

**Gert**

Dudeface wrote:
Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.

A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.

So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Sorry Gert, gonna have to disagree Heresy is a specialist game.

It has its own tab in the main game bit of the new Website, and has had waaaaay more releases in it short plastic life time than most specialist games.

Not on par with AoS or 40K I’ll grant you, but it is positioned as a core game overall.

**Gert**

If it's not 40k or AoS then it's specialist. TOW and MESBG are both "main" systems but they aren't the same as 40k or AoS, Heresy is the third of these.

That's also a pretty shaky foundation on which to validate the rumour that it's getting a new edition.

**Gimgamgoo**

Maybe keywords/USRs all in the same section this tome?
I so hate flicking through the rulebook for a keyword rule, and fail to find it because it's in the faction book. (And v.v.)

Mind you, I was hoping HH wouldn't go into the 3 year cycle gap year with AoS and 40k. At least use that 3rd gap year to alternate between HH and ToW giving us at least 6 years with our books.