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 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

 mattl wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
They have been for weeks too. It's not like they sold a ton overnight.

I'd assume they're out of stock for repackaging for the new edition.

Its been impossible to get any of the resin stuff for years now. Unless you are actively checking your emails for restock alerts daily they might come back in stock with 3 or 4 and then they're gone again.

I've been on the watch list for an Alpha Legion model: "Exodus," since January.

 Gert wrote:
Goonhammer reviews are up as well on their website for all the books.

Read the article on generic Legion units and main rules.
They don't pull punches on talking about how the wargear removals will have an impact on people's armies and the fact the core rules are written like a corporate legal document.

Even in the sections where the articles are positive (Challenges being one) they are still clear the way its written is going to put people off.

The most hilarious takeaway is that there is apparently a big note in the book that every single rule should be read through because this edition is nothing like any previous edition and assuming the rules are similar will mean you'll get them wrong.
So much for "The Horus Heresy you all know and love".

2nd edition had the same line in the rulebook.

Yeah, but at least 2.0 wasn't sold to us as "basically" the same game while being fundamentally different in both unit stats, USR & USR(*), weapon profiles, etc.

2.0 was pretty much everything they said it was, on its face.
3.0 is basically a boat that's falling apart and in need of repairs and or being scuttled.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah, but at least 2.0 wasn't sold to us as "basically" the same game while being fundamentally different in both unit stats, USR & USR(*), weapon profiles, etc.

2.0 was pretty much everything they said it was, on its face.
3.0 is basically a boat that's falling apart and in need of repairs and or being scuttled.

I've seen it said there's apparently a blurb in the book explicitly telling the reader to take their time understanding the new rules because they're a significant change to previous versions which, if right, would make their "basically the same" WarCom marketing even more egregious. Honestly we owe the leaker/s a lot, especially given the way many of the hobby influencers are *still* trying to spin things in a positive/wait-and-see way despite the fact we can read in plain english(well, actually in english that looks like the product of a thousand monkeys at a thousand keyboards prompting chatGPT, but you know what I mean) all the BS - I have no doubt they would have happily sold it as a completely positive situation and thoroughly glossed over all the bad stuff if they'd had a chance and a lot of people would be preordering a nasty surprise.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah, but at least 2.0 wasn't sold to us as "basically" the same game while being fundamentally different in both unit stats, USR & USR(*), weapon profiles, etc.

2.0 was pretty much everything they said it was, on its face.
3.0 is basically a boat that's falling apart and in need of repairs and or being scuttled.

I've seen it said there's apparently a blurb in the book explicitly telling the reader to take their time understanding the new rules because they're a significant change to previous versions which, if right, would make their "basically the same" WarCom marketing even more egregious. Honestly we owe the leaker/s a lot, especially given the way many of the hobby influencers are *still* trying to spin things in a positive/wait-and-see way despite the fact we can read in plain english(well, actually in english that looks like the product of a thousand monkeys at a thousand keyboards prompting chatGPT, but you know what I mean) all the BS - I have no doubt they would have happily sold it as a completely positive situation and thoroughly glossed over all the bad stuff if they'd had a chance and a lot of people would be preordering a nasty surprise.

Would also explain the rather complete set of leaks of someone that is unhappy.
Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

 Rihgu wrote:


2nd edition had the same line in the rulebook.

Did it? News to me but that doesn't really matter because HH2 was still largely similar to previous editions in terms of general rules.
Army construction was the same, core rules largely unchanged, weapon stat lines being the same as previous editions, Rites Of War still existed, and unit statlines were the same style.

Not the case with HH3, which is the point I was making about all the marketing/messaging saying "It's the same game" when it clearly isn't.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:
(well, actually in english that looks like the product of a thousand monkeys at a thousand keyboards prompting chatGPT, but you know what I mean)

It looks like they decided to let their legal team do the final revision, which might actually be worse than the monkeys at typewriters...

Not Online!!! wrote:
.Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

Oh come on - that’s just pure speculation. You know perfectly well that there are all sorts of motives for leaking stuff like this.

 Snord wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
.Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

Oh come on - that’s just pure speculation. You know perfectly well that there are all sorts of motives for leaking stuff like this.

Yeah, cause leaked information about movies is definitely a warning about a horrible film, if those multi-billion dollar earning Avengers films were any indication.

Things get leaked all the time. You can't say, leaks = future bad product. It just doesn't fit. There have been leaks for most GW products.

 Snord wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Has anyone leaked any info on the grey slayers/general SW options?

Yes - that’s been leaked. I think they are in this link: https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre

Who the hell is pardo and why does whoever posted those want to have relations with them so bad?

Also, are all the Primarchs like that? The Sire ability being "if you fill the four primary troop slots with {signature unit/upgrade} they're all Prime" plus "everyone with the right legion trait gets a thematic bonus ability" I mean?

 Snord wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
.Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

Oh come on - that’s just pure speculation. You know perfectly well that there are all sorts of motives for leaking stuff like this.

True. But the fact that this steaming pile of needs hazard stripes is quite correct.

Seems like quite an astute observation to me. The chances of someone leaking something surely go up if they think that thing is controversial and people will be interested.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Snord wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
.Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

Oh come on - that’s just pure speculation. You know perfectly well that there are all sorts of motives for leaking stuff like this.

True. But the fact that this steaming pile of needs hazard stripes is quite correct.

Yeah. But going by all the people hating on it in this thread, then saying "I'm only buying 2 boxes of it" sends the success signals to GW, who will just double down on the 40k-isation and option removal for v4 in three years time.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Snord wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
.Leakage is generally a product of low morale of the process or completely hyped up (marketing strategy). In this case it's hard to not get the feeling that someone decided that nope, this needs warning stripes more than even Iron warriors.

Oh come on - that’s just pure speculation. You know perfectly well that there are all sorts of motives for leaking stuff like this.

True. But the fact that this steaming pile of needs hazard stripes is quite correct.

Yeah. But going by all the people hating on it in this thread, then saying "I'm only buying 2 boxes of it" sends the success signals to GW, who will just double down on the 40k-isation and option removal for v4 in three years time.

It not selling well will send the message not to invest however.

If someone think that forum outrage will result in people not buying their products, I think that that someone has not been in the hobby long enough.

On a topic not involving outrage-

Just had a thought about the monoloadout consuls- they may match the resin ones, but a single load out could make it easier for beancounters to justify plastic clampacks for them. Maybe?

No you're a step behind - a single loadout means in a few months they can unveil a shiny plastic version with TWO loadouts, all the rules for which can be found in this thrilling new supplement, "the war for whatever somesuch"

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I've been going back and forth over whether or not I should buy the Saturnine set. Alchemist Workshop have 300 in stock at the time of writing, so I guess that there's no rush

A day and a half later they are down to 278. 12 sold in a day and a half. Some retailers are going to get burnt by this release.

 Tamereth wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I've been going back and forth over whether or not I should buy the Saturnine set. Alchemist Workshop have 300 in stock at the time of writing, so I guess that there's no rush

A day and a half later they are down to 278. 12 sold in a day and a half. Some retailers are going to get burnt by this release.

They have 3 years to sell them, it's not a splash release

A lot of places depend on stock selling fast so the money can be re-invested in the next round of releases. If it doesn't go within the month they have problems (and will end up trying to sell cheap to get rid of them... without coming up on GWs radar for offering loo big a discount)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
A lot of places depend on stock selling fast so the money can be re-invested in the next round of releases. If it doesn't go within the month they have problems (and will end up trying to sell cheap to get rid of them... without coming up on GWs radar for offering loo big a discount)

Ok, but ordering 300 on a whim feels like it was a bad choice.

Dudeface wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
A lot of places depend on stock selling fast so the money can be re-invested in the next round of releases. If it doesn't go within the month they have problems (and will end up trying to sell cheap to get rid of them... without coming up on GWs radar for offering loo big a discount)

Ok, but ordering 300 on a whim feels like it was a bad choice.

I’m guessing it wasn’t a “whim”

How did the prior edition starter do? How about similar boxes for other GW games? The person placing the order did not pull a number out of a hat. You want to make sure you order enough stock to cover expected sales, with enough buffer to bridge reordering, but not so much that you’ve got capital locked up in stock warming the shelves. It’s an educated guess, and if those number are right, might have been a real bad one in this case.

The problem (and hence opportunity) with a lot of these launch boxes is that they sell out quickly. Even if they are being restocked, gamers are impatient and want the thing now, so a lot of retailers will overorder these products gambling on the idea that they will fly off the shelves and then they will be sitting on a stash of stuff they can flip for easy cash, potentially even above MSRP. Works great, until it doesn't.

Even at trade price 300 boxes will be £30,000 of stock. How many one shop wargaming retailers can afford to have that much tied up in a stock that isn't shifting.

They would have thought it was a safe bet, and with good reason. The rules leaks didn't happen until the last minute so their stock orders will have been in with GW before the backlash hit social media.

I've just spent 10 minutes on facebook, every third post was a flgs I either follow, or don't, pushing the pre-order. Not seen that before for any release. Could just be facebooks algorithm or another sign of trouble.

I mean, ive not seen too many indicators that this release is flying off the shelves so far so yeah I think theres a lot of energy being put behind trying to market to folks

If we're scouring pre-order pages for signs of sales deficiency, it looks like the new standalone rulebook is out of stock at GW, as is the Carta Galactica, but the Saturnine box and the various libers are all still available.

I'm pretty sure historically speaking $300+ boxes have been a harder sell. You really can't expect them to go flying off the shelves quickly. This is a big hype release and decent value by GW's standards, but it's still up against the limits of what you can move to most hobbyists in a single purchase.

I don't recall the first AoD 2nd Edition boxed set selling out on release. So it's hard to assess how the new edition is doing. I think GW must be anticipating a big surge in sales, since that's presumably the main reason for the 3 year edition cycle. And they have hyped it quite a bit. I wonder it they have factored in the potential risks involved in selling a new edition with both rules revisions that the players didn't ask for and new models which players seem to either love or hate and don't therefore have general appeal.

 Fayric wrote:
If someone think that forum outrage will result in people not buying their products, I think that that someone has not been in the hobby long enough.

If someone thinks this is normal levels, intensity, and reasoning of forum outrage they haven't been in the hobby long enough. When someone like *Valrak* is echoing the basic sentiments of the complainers, it's not just "usual suspects" rawr me hate change griping.

Dudeface wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I've been going back and forth over whether or not I should buy the Saturnine set. Alchemist Workshop have 300 in stock at the time of writing, so I guess that there's no rush

A day and a half later they are down to 278. 12 sold in a day and a half. Some retailers are going to get burnt by this release.

They have 3 years to sell them, it's not a splash release

That's...not how this works man. It not being a splash release doesn't mean retailers were planning on having the initial wave sat on their shelves for three years, it means they were expecting to *sell out*(or close to it) of the initial wave rapidly - as GW products usually do - and then be able to order more.

They are doing always the same, difference is just that the HH community reacts differently than AoS or 40k or even Lord of the Rings community to unnecessary changes that reduce options. (there are a lot of people who switched from 40k in 6th/7th and again in 9th/10th because they didn't like the changes there, now that game going the same direction isn't something people looking forward too, no matter if it is good or bad)

Also day 1 DLC doesn't really help to create hype for a pre-order were you know you need another book already.

Last point would be that the current rules aren't bad enough that everyone wants to switch, something that drives new Editions with 40k when people already ask for a new one a year before.

For the numbers, on previous sets 300 was what the stores sold out on preorder, smaller ones usually got 10 copies and sold them to regulars before preorder goes live
That said I didn't got a notification from my store this time and no one is really talking about it.