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Might very well be a combination of issues:

- Big, expensive box that back in the day would be what you get for a big Christmas present ticket, price wise,
- Big rule changes that I'm not too sure anyone was asking for,
- New army construction rules much more limiting that puts a crimp on people who already was building armies (and who are probably the target audience for this),
- FLGS that are used to GW selling out and seem to have bought big,
- FLGSs ordering big because GW usually shrinks their orders on big items...

If many independent stores have ordered more than they're selling fast, they will notice, fast, as in the above example: that's way too much money not moving.

Looking for detailed reviews of the Liber books, specifically Liber Auxilia and Mechanicum. Has anyone found any good ones?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Looking for detailed reviews of the Liber books, specifically Liber Auxilia and Mechanicum. Has anyone found any good ones?

Here are Goonhammer's reviews. I don't play either faction so I can't vouch for their reliability, but I found their reviews of the Marines fairly useful.

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-horus-heresy-third-edition-liber-solar-auxilia/

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-horus-heresy-third-edition-liber-mechanicum/

How big and active is HH community?

How much of HH can be used in or converted to other main games like 40k?

300 units sounds like a very very popular product and Im just wondering if its really that popular.

 NAVARRO wrote:
How big and active is HH community?

How much of HH can be used in or converted to other main games like 40k?

300 units sounds like a very very popular product and Im just wondering if its really that popular.

Apparently it's GW's third most popular game after WH40k and AoS.

Where does that metric come from? Not that i'm doubting it, if only due to space marines. But just curious.

HH isn't in the top 10 of games for US retailers, yet it is GWs 3rd main so one could assume it sells more than the other non main GW games as those don't make the top 10 either

But as the only public information are from US retailers and GW sells a lot via their own stores and non-US online shops, it is impossible to say how popular it really is
In addition some GW games being more popular in different regions is a thing, like how US favoured 40k and EU WHFB back in the days

Is there a list of whats been removed somewhere?

 Snord wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
How big and active is HH community?

How much of HH can be used in or converted to other main games like 40k?

300 units sounds like a very very popular product and Im just wondering if its really that popular.

Apparently it's GW's third most popular game after WH40k and AoS.

3rd most popular gw game? Thats impressive.
I dont follow specifically HH but overall I dont see relevant numbers of people painting it, blogging it, streaming, playing etc. Maybe its just one of those systems that online community is not that active but IRL they doing it etc... I see product boxes on the shelves but thats it.
Is there even gaming events for such big system?
Still 300 boxes at such price is a Huge investment

I've started getting emails from retailers pushing it today, some with increased discount.

 kodos wrote:
HH isn't in the top 10 of games for US retailers, yet it is GWs 3rd main so one could assume it sells more than the other non main GW games as those don't make the top 10 either

But as the only public information are from US retailers and GW sells a lot via their own stores and non-US online shops, it is impossible to say how popular it really is
In addition some GW games being more popular in different regions is a thing, like how US favoured 40k and EU WHFB back in the days

The metrics youre referring to are very flawed and shouldnt really be used as the basis for any discussion.

I'm reading chatter saying retailers are offering discounts for Saturnine. If you're considered buying a box, mayber better to hold off for a bit and see if you can get it at savings?

This sort of feels like Saturnine wasnt the summer blockbuster GW hoped it would be.. I hope they learn their lesson about cutting off options from their army books, absolutely HARAM

 NAVARRO wrote:

3rd most popular gw game? Thats impressive.
I dont follow specifically HH but overall I dont see relevant numbers of people painting it, blogging it, streaming, playing etc. Maybe its just one of those systems that online community is not that active but IRL they doing it etc... I see product boxes on the shelves but thats it.
Is there even gaming events for such big system?
Still 300 boxes at such price is a Huge investment

If you don't follow it you won't see it. Dakka doesn't have a large HH presence but B&C used to be a big hub for it. Instagram as well.

In the UK there are a lot of local communities especially in London and the Lead Belt that do a lot of HH gaming and it's pretty easy to get events in England.

I didn't expect what is essentially a new starter box to sell out when the 2E one didn't.

I guess you might be able to track how well things are selling by add on sales. For example if you look at webstores like Darksphere you can see stock levels. Meaning if nothing really moves post launch then we might be dealing with a dud. On that note Darksphere probably have the best discount available atm. £156 pounds not including shipping.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 kodos wrote:
HH isn't in the top 10 of games for US retailers, yet it is GWs 3rd main so one could assume it sells more than the other non main GW games as those don't make the top 10 either

But as the only public information are from US retailers and GW sells a lot via their own stores and non-US online shops, it is impossible to say how popular it really is
In addition some GW games being more popular in different regions is a thing, like how US favoured 40k and EU WHFB back in the days

The metrics youre referring to are very flawed and shouldnt really be used as the basis for any discussion.

I know, but it is still the only thing we have
How popular is HH? Only GW knows
Does 3rd Edi fails? Only GW knows
Are they ever going to tell us? For sure not

We only know that US retailers in the past didn't sold a lot
Maybe EU or Asia sold a lot but we have no data
The only thing we know is that starter boxes not selling out on pre-order is a bad sign in the GW bubble as overestimate demand doesn't go well with their business model

 Gael Knight wrote:
I didn't expect what is essentially a new starter box to sell out when the 2E one didn't.

I guess you might be able to track how well things are selling by add on sales. For example if you look at webstores like Darksphere you can see stock levels. Meaning if nothing really moves post launch then we might be dealing with a dud. On that note Darksphere probably have the best discount available atm. £156 pounds not including shipping.

The 2E one didn't? I mean, it absolutely did sell out on release, at least over here, and on the GW page from what I remember seeing here at the time (I guess I might be misremembering?).

You could buy it after restocks, of course... because it wasn't a one-off. Buit that's a different thing.

 tauist wrote:
I'm reading chatter saying retailers are offering discounts for Saturnine. If you're considered buying a box, mayber better to hold off for a bit and see if you can get it at savings?

This sort of feels like Saturnine wasnt the summer blockbuster GW hoped it would be.. I hope they learn their lesson about cutting off options from their army books, absolutely HARAM

The shops bought the stock already GW won't care.

I will 100% get dumped on for this but just to throw out some factors against it being a big hit, YMMV on a person to person basis on how each much impacts:

Existing players:
- They cut off a lot of units/options upsetting people
- Mental load of being on the edition treadmill is off-putting
- People are very marmite on the new minis in the launch box
- There's some strong whiff of modern 40k to the rules
- DLC roadmap feeling like a milking opportunity
- Division over played editions

I'll preface this by making a fairly safe assumption the majority of people segway into HH from 40k, happy to be wrong.

New players:
- Met with a wall of negativity
- All marines all the time is something a lot of 40k players want less of anyway
- No small game size support
- Other factions largely suffer from relying on large volumes of resin support
- The rules and rulebook aren't easy to parse or get on with compared to other offerings
- Same concerns on DLC and being milked
- Seemingly smaller/harder to access community
- It's a lot of money to buy Saturnine in the first place

So when you factor that all in, the box is mostly aimed at people wanting the new shiny stuff for their army and either being ignorant of the wider context, not caring or being new to the system but on board with the marine-centric nature.

It's not a game as easy to pick up and get into as 40k, the player base is smaller, regardless anyone's protestations there are certainly more gatekeeper elements and demands a larger cash and time investment to get up and running on the whole. So I am shocked any retailer would be expecting to shift hundreds of this box to be honest. Even without knowledge of the online state, it still exists as a niche product in a setting that's a stream branching off the mile wide river of 40k, so you'd have to assume the stock levels wouldn't need to be anywhere near. Add to the removed FOMO of it being a shelf product and not a launch box and there's less incentive to drop on it day 1 at a higher than usual price for an entry product.

 Albertorius wrote:

- FLGS that are used to GW selling out and seem to have bought big,
- FLGSs ordering big because GW usually shrinks their orders on big items...

Not sure this is so accurate for new edition starter boxes. Neither Leviathan nor Skaventide sold out, did they? And stores were able to order their fill.

Its probably nothing but I just noticed something interesting in the URL of the Saturnine images.
They are all called AgeofDarknessSaturnine2ndEditionFirstWaveCoreGame
2nd Edition makes sense if they see it as the second edition since HH joined the main games but the FirstWaveCoreGame makes me think we might get another (probably smaller) starter during this edition instead of keeping the big box for the whole edition like last time

 Altruizine wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

- FLGS that are used to GW selling out and seem to have bought big,
- FLGSs ordering big because GW usually shrinks their orders on big items...

Not sure this is so accurate for new edition starter boxes. Neither Leviathan nor Skaventide sold out, did they? And stores were able to order their fill.

Locally Leviathan at least did sell out too, I can't really say for Skaventide.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

- FLGS that are used to GW selling out and seem to have bought big,
- FLGSs ordering big because GW usually shrinks their orders on big items...

Not sure this is so accurate for new edition starter boxes. Neither Leviathan nor Skaventide sold out, did they? And stores were able to order their fill.

Nah, neither did. A couple of my locals had stacks of Leviathan for a long time and Element had it plastered on their front page long after the initial Fomo passed. I wish they would rethink this whole launch box strategy, i feel like Indomitus was lightning in a bottle and has never really worked for any system since.

I'm pretty sure it will fix itself, given time.

Have we seen the pages for Techmarines and Apothocarys?

 Nicorex wrote:
Have we seen the pages for Techmarines and Apothocarys?

Yes. The Apothecary page is quite... hard to parse.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

- FLGS that are used to GW selling out and seem to have bought big,
- FLGSs ordering big because GW usually shrinks their orders on big items...

Not sure this is so accurate for new edition starter boxes. Neither Leviathan nor Skaventide sold out, did they? And stores were able to order their fill.

Nah, neither did. A couple of my locals had stacks of Leviathan for a long time and Element had it plastered on their front page long after the initial Fomo passed. I wish they would rethink this whole launch box strategy, i feel like Indomitus was lightning in a bottle and has never really worked for any system since.

Wait, what's wrong with it? Everybody who wants a copy has like ~6 months to get one or whatever. That's cool. It's only a bad paradigm from the POV of pundit freaks who think not selling out means the game is dying or whatever.

 Snord wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Looking for detailed reviews of the Liber books, specifically Liber Auxilia and Mechanicum. Has anyone found any good ones?

Here are Goonhammer's reviews. I don't play either faction so I can't vouch for their reliability, but I found their reviews of the Marines fairly useful.

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-horus-heresy-third-edition-liber-solar-auxilia/

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-horus-heresy-third-edition-liber-mechanicum/

The Solar Auxilia review, in conjunction with Sprues and Brews youtube video review have me pretty hyped for Solar Auxilia.

Just assembled my first 10 Veletaris and a Tactical Command last night. Going to prime them when I get home tonight then jump into the two boxes of Lasrifle Sections.

Anyone care to share the sources for supposedly discounted Saturnine sets?

lol

I'd also like to know this.

Cheapest in the UK is £155 as far as I know?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I'd also like to know this.

Cheapest in the UK is £155 as far as I know?

Same, it's more I've seen places that offer 10 or 15% discount going to 20%.

 Matrindur wrote:
Its probably nothing but I just noticed something interesting in the URL of the Saturnine images.
They are all called AgeofDarknessSaturnine2ndEditionFirstWaveCoreGame
2nd Edition makes sense if they see it as the second edition since HH joined the main games but the FirstWaveCoreGame makes me think we might get another (probably smaller) starter during this edition instead of keeping the big box for the whole edition like last time

It's nothing. Title page of the book of the book literally says "Warhammer The Horus Heresy 3rd Edition Rules".