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As the title suggests, I would be interested to see opinions - now that the price point for entry into 30K has dropped.

Edit: In terms of popularity.

No.

It'll be more popular than before, mostly due to being more accessible, but no, it won't surpass 40k.
For starters it pretty much outright excludes anyone who doesn't want to play some color of Marines....

I doubt it. It excludes too many popular factions. Marines may be the most popular and iconic army in 40K but variety is the spice of life (along with chilli of course).

Doubt it. It's a nice thought but those of us who don't play marines aren't invited, and eventually marines vs. marines is going to get boring.

It won't be a pure marine-fest forever, Mechanicum and the other imperial armies will be along over the next few months. Though they should have been in from the get go IMO.

Xenos players need not apply unless people want to do what they did in HH 1.0 and adapt old 7th ed codexes unofficially.

I think there's a bit surge of interest with the new (relatively, for GW) cheap box and more plastic, plus people being a bit fed up with 9th potentially. So it will be a huge shot in the arm, and definitely bigger than your average specialist game for at least a while.

I can see it replacing 40k in a specific small group, e.g. a group of friends or a club switch to playing it because they like the rules more, already have or want to start heresy armies etc. I can see it outpacing AoS in a local area even, as AoS is still a bit marmite.

But being more popular than 40k at more than an individual group level? Not a chance.

I'm probably gonna switch to 30k for my FB Salamanders. They were already almost completely 30k minis so not a big switch. My Primaris will stay current but I'm not gonna play them any more and make it more of a modeling project.

As for my EC/FH, I'm not sure the Jury's still out on that.
Metallica, modeling & maybe allies for 30k
Ynarri, modeling

So for all intents and purposes I'm moving to 30k.

No. Mirror matches bore people very soon.

But maybe I'm biased since I refuse to play marines vs marines since 5th edition and of all the 10 factions I like in 40k only one (Space Wolves) is in 30k but without all the stuff that makes it one of my favorite factions. I also strongly dislike HH models.

I think it'll compete with Necromunda in terms of popularity, not with 40k or AoS.

It is hardly mirror matches when all armies have different rules. But I there is no way w30k will rival w40k. It can be very popular, specialy for droughts in content for marine factions. And the rules themself look nice.

It's an interesting question. While I agree with those who are saying that it doesn't have as wide an appeal as 40K it might cause some disruption.

Don't most 40K players play some form of Space Marines anyway? While the unit choices aren't identical across 30K and 40K some imagination and proxying goes a long way.

The two systems being pretty different could be an issue too. The revamped 30K rules seem to have been well received, we'll see if that's still the case in a few months time. 9th edition on the other hand is not in a great place. If 10th edition only exacerbates the issues we might see more people choosing to spend their gaming time playing with the 30K rules.

If people want to play 40K factions in 30K then fan made rules will help. These don't tend to be universally accepted so this is certainly a barrier. Probably why 40K will still be the go to choice for most people.

Personally since I don't collect Marines in 40K (I do have some Deathwatch, but tend to use them as allies for my Imperial Guard rather than on their own) 30K doesn't really appeal.

Not a chance. It doesn't have the variety of 40k so it appeals to less people.

 Blackie wrote:
No. Mirror matches bore people very soon.

But maybe I'm biased since I refuse to play marines vs marines since 5th edition and of all the 10 factions I like in 40k only one (Space Wolves) is in 30k but without all the stuff that makes it one of my favorite factions. I also strongly dislike HH models.

I think it'll compete with Necromunda in terms of popularity, not with 40k or AoS.

30k marines have a lot more diversity than 40k marines do, an army from one legion plays very differently from an army from another legion, and even two armies from the same legion can vary dramatically depending on which rites of war they use.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
No. Mirror matches bore people very soon.

But maybe I'm biased since I refuse to play marines vs marines since 5th edition and of all the 10 factions I like in 40k only one (Space Wolves) is in 30k but without all the stuff that makes it one of my favorite factions. I also strongly dislike HH models.

I think it'll compete with Necromunda in terms of popularity, not with 40k or AoS.

30k marines have a lot more diversity than 40k marines do, an army from one legion plays very differently from an army from another legion, and even two armies from the same legion can vary dramatically depending on which rites of war they use.

Maybe. But they're still armies made from the exact same kits. At least in 40k some chapters have their dedicated kits and units. In 30k I believe only named characters are chapter locked units.

There's loads of legion specific units with different kit and rules, most have 2 off the top of my head, blood angels have 3. Plus each legion has multiple rites to choose from, leading to diverse playstyles/army lists even in a direct legion mirror match - and there's some additional distinctions between loyalist and traitor versions of the same legion (though not all of the previous ones are in the current index book).

Sure, if you never want to play with or against power armour then heresy is not a game for you, but I think there's a lot more viable lists you can make for a given legion than for a single chapter in 40k - a lot more units are worth taking. For my world eaters, I'm already planning out an infantry horde version, an elite/terminator based one, and possible a mobility & light vehicles one. And they're arguably one of the least flexible legions. Someone like Dark Angels or Alpha Legion can pick pretty much any style and make it work.

And 18 legions is a lot of choice. Even if you had literally identical lists (which we will see more of, given everyone's buying the AoD box!), a world eaters version is going to play very differently than say, an iron hands one. One of the limitations has been the eyewatering forgeworld cost, but that should be much reduced as the core range comes to plastic.

The worst part of 40k is the Power Armor sausage parties, so not interested in a game designed almost exclusively for Power Armor sausage parties.

 arkhanist wrote:
There's loads of legion specific units with different kit and rules, most have 2 off the top of my head, blood angels have 3. Plus each legion has multiple rites to choose from, leading to diverse playstyles/army lists even in a direct legion mirror match - and there's some additional distinctions between loyalist and traitor versions of the same legion (though not all of the previous ones are in the current index book).

Sure, if you never want to play with or against power armour then heresy is not a game for you, but I think there's a lot more viable lists you can make for a given legion than for a single chapter in 40k - a lot more units are worth taking. For my world eaters, I'm already planning out an infantry horde version, an elite/terminator based one, and possible a mobility & light vehicles one. And they're arguably one of the least flexible legions. Someone like Dark Angels or Alpha Legion can pick pretty much any style and make it work.

And 18 legions is a lot of choice. Even if you had literally identical lists (which we will see more of, given everyone's buying the AoD box!), a world eaters version is going to play very differently than say, an iron hands one. One of the limitations has been the eyewatering forgeworld cost, but that should be much reduced as the core range comes to plastic.

Doesn't sound any different than Marine based 40k.

ccs wrote:

 arkhanist wrote:
There's loads of legion specific units with different kit and rules, most have 2 off the top of my head, blood angels have 3. Plus each legion has multiple rites to choose from, leading to diverse playstyles/army lists even in a direct legion mirror match - and there's some additional distinctions between loyalist and traitor versions of the same legion (though not all of the previous ones are in the current index book).

Sure, if you never want to play with or against power armour then heresy is not a game for you, but I think there's a lot more viable lists you can make for a given legion than for a single chapter in 40k - a lot more units are worth taking. For my world eaters, I'm already planning out an infantry horde version, an elite/terminator based one, and possible a mobility & light vehicles one. And they're arguably one of the least flexible legions. Someone like Dark Angels or Alpha Legion can pick pretty much any style and make it work.

And 18 legions is a lot of choice. Even if you had literally identical lists (which we will see more of, given everyone's buying the AoD box!), a world eaters version is going to play very differently than say, an iron hands one. One of the limitations has been the eyewatering forgeworld cost, but that should be much reduced as the core range comes to plastic.

Doesn't sound any different than Marine based 40k.

some people don't mind it. TBH we're seeing the real split here. the real split is between "people who like space marines" and "people who don't" I do think one side effect of the Horus Heresy is 40k may see less Marine lists on average as people who are "all about marines" focus on the heresy. and people who play both 40k and HH, may decide they want "something differant" for 40k

 Tyran wrote:
The worst part of 40k is the Power Armor sausage parties, so not interested in a game designed almost exclusively for Power Armor sausage parties.

Maybe not in such harsh words, but one of the major factors driving me away from modern 40K is GW's focus on Marines, so why would I ever play a game, where the only model line I like is Mechanicum and the rest are droves upon droves of the most uninspired (for me personally) aesthetic in the entire IP? The quality of the ruleset won't compensate my lack of enjoyment from playing even more cookie cutter version of 7th ed Matched 40k. Especially when those are still GW rules - better than 40k for sure, but it's really low bar.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
As the title suggests, I would be interested to see opinions - now that the price point for entry into 30K has dropped.

Edit: In terms of popularity.

In terms of kit popularity (and sales)? Quite possibly. Almost certainly on faction by faction basis when comparing old marine stuff vs smaller niche factions
In terms of the overall game? Probably not.
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unless they tilt the game over and introduce some of the xenos factions from the early great crusade (and quietly add orks and elves). Then, maybe, yeah.

eh, 40K's diversity of races I think will always win out.

But there's a place for 30K, I mean there's several successful WW2 and the like games and they're just human vs. human, with some slight "national" tweaks and equipment differences.

I think HH will enjoy a surge of popularity with the new edition, but eventually the popularity will settle, and folks will turn towards 40K 10th Edition for their plasticrack fix. Votann and new Guard kits are gonna go brrrrrrrrr

I don't really care either way much. I'm only in this for the models, and as long as they keep getting purtier, I'm game.

At the end of the day, Kill Team is where I'm most comfy in.

The people who don't actually play 9th but complain about it endlessly will also bounce off of HH2 super hard when they run into, what is essentially still, 90's wargame design.

This is not to say either system is objectively better, but they are certainly different conceptually and mechanically and I think a lot of the newer tabletop wargamers getting excited about the new edition are going to be in for a bit of a shock when they actually get down to playing the game.

If they ever do, because despite the cheap buy-in, to actually get a workable and desirable 30k army the cost is going to skyrocket exponentially pretty quickly. Just the different special and heavy weapon boxes alone will be wiping out a lot of potential savings and most of the range is still in resin, so if you want to start diversifying your army and giving it more actual character you're gonna have to start dipping into FW resin (unless you wanna go FWeast). Outside of the Deimos Rhino it seems like a lot of the new plastics will be more expensive than 40k equivalents too.

Also last I checked 3k was the average points level of HH games (might be different for some areas though). That also makes it a much steeper investment.

Unless they introduce some aliens (and who in HH era could pose a serious threat? Orks (as they can arise very quickly, even after such a beating as Ullanor)? Eldar (some bigger Craftworlds like Ulthwe possibly)?) the answer is no.

Their number one IP, which is 40K, will remain their bestseller and number one IP.

BrianDavion wrote:
TBH we're seeing the real split here. the real split is between "people who like space marines" and "people who don't" I do think one side effect of the Horus Heresy is 40k may see less Marine lists on average as people who are "all about marines" focus on the heresy. and people who play both 40k and HH, may decide they want "something differant" for 40k

I don't think that's the real split here, it's more like "people who are all about marines" vs people who want some variety in their games.

I have a space marine faction in 40k so I'm certainly someone that likes some kinds of space marines at least. But I'd hate a setting in which the vast majority of games are marines vs marines, and in fact it's someting I've always refused to play in 40k. If people who are all about marines really leave 40k and join HH that's a positive news for me.

Without its iconic xenos factions, 30k will never be able to appeal to as many people as 40k does.

I can see the marine models selling really well to the marine fans. I also expect to see many of them appearing on 40K tables and in 40K games.

30K itself will be popular, but it won't beat 40K. It will enjoy solid sales and be very popular, but I doubt it will outsell 40K in general. There will certainly be sales periods where it might well outsell everything else or even outsell on specific models. Heck one of the Lord of the Rings sets outsold tactical marines, yet LotR is very much not bigger than 40K in the market.

 arkhanist wrote:
I

Xenos players need not apply unless people want to do what they did in HH 1.0 and adapt old 7th ed codexes unofficially.

Wouldn't Orks make an appearance at least? I doubt the Orks just let the Imperium have a civil war and politely let them finish. It's more likely that they would see what's going on and think "oi, dat looks fun, let's have a go too"

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 arkhanist wrote:
I

Xenos players need not apply unless people want to do what they did in HH 1.0 and adapt old 7th ed codexes unofficially.

Wouldn't Orks make an appearance at least? I doubt the Orks just let the Imperium have a civil war and politely let them finish. It's more likely that they would see what's going on and think "oi, dat looks fun, let's have a go too"

Orks got curb stomped at Ullanor so hard they basicly wheren't an active threat.

The Orks were a spent force by the time of the Heresy. The Chondax system was the last pocket of the Ullanor empire and it wasn't even that strong, the Scars took so long to pacify it because the Alpha Legion kept doing sabotage. The only other "threat" was the one made up by Horus to get the Ultramarines to muster at Calth so they could be massacred by the Word Bearers. Guilliman even admitted that he knew the Orks weren't a threat but he believed the reason for the joint operation was to heal the divide between the Ultras and the Word Bearers.
The Orks don't become a real threat again until M32 during the War of the Beast.

 Jidmah wrote:
Without its iconic xenos factions, 30k will never be able to appeal to as many people as 40k does.

It's not just xenos. Astra Militarum (Militia is another thing) and Adepta Sororitas are incredibly iconic and popular, yet completely absent from 30k.

But even considering just SM and Chaos there's tons of stuff that makes chapters and subfactions really attractive and popular in 40k, and all that stuff is absent from 30k and not even remotely replaced it with something else in terms of quantity.

I mean I love Space Wolves but in 40k I get a dozen of named characters and at least 7-8 dedicated chapter locked units, not to mention a bazillion of dedicated bitz from various kits. What would I get in 30k? Just the equivalent of a primaris SW army in 40k, aka a couple of named characters, 1-2 chapter locked units at most, and a sprue of upgrades (with something like only 3-5 heads, ugh), and that's the same of pretty much every other chapter that can rely on several dedicated kits in 40k, so even if I love the Space Wolves I don't see any appeal in their 30k variant.

HH is focussed around a specific story and a specific setting. People who don't care about those won't care about 30k.