What Martial weapon is the most valuable to an Astartes Chapter?

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**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I'm guessing THs but they can make those right? Is it Powerclaws? Combat Knives? Sharp Sticks?

What weapon type is the most valuable to a chapter? Not in terms of specific named relics, but, for instance the Terminator Armor is extremely rare.

**Flinty**

The holy bolter, for it is the foundation upon which everything else is based!

**Haighus**

Probably relic blades. Are they still in the rules?

**mrFickle**

It’s the bolt pistol and chain sword. They are knife and fork of combat. The cheese and biscuits of battle.

**Gert**

It's not really a straightforward answer because individual sentiment is more important.
For example, a Bolter to one Astartes is just a tool to be used and it is they themselves that are the valuable asset. Yet to another it is an heirloom passed down through generations of warriors and can (in some cases) be more valued than the warrior who wields it.

**Insectum7**

Battle Barges.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Am I wrong in thinking that LR STCs for specific variants are no longer in existence? Or certain models of Dreadnaught chasis?

**Backspacehacker**

The one with the longest name, the oldest, or used by the coolest guy.

**Nerak**

It’s kind of a difficult question. Whatever gets the job done I guess? Bolter because it’s a great all around weapon with great religious significance. Combat knives because every single marine has one that he practices with. But ultimately I think the most valuable thing is not the fear but the marines themselves. Each one will live on in the next recruit in their gene seed. So rather then the most valuable thing being, say a piece of armour or a gun, I’d say the warrior wielding it is far more important.

**Aash**

Drop pods or thunderhawks.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Thats two people who've said Thunderhawks. Are those rare somehow?

**Gert**

Pretty much everything in the Space Marine armoury is rare.
Suits of Power Armour can be thousands of years old or cobbled together from many different patterns because generally speaking the Mechanicus can't mass produce Astartes equipment in any rapid timeframe. A Chapter might receive a bulk shipment of equipment but that could likely be their only one for hundreds of years.

**mrFickle**

Gert wrote:
Pretty much everything in the Space Marine armoury is rare.
Suits of Power Armour can be thousands of years old or cobbled together from many different patterns because generally speaking the Mechanicus can't mass produce Astartes equipment in any rapid timeframe. A Chapter might receive a bulk shipment of equipment but that could likely be their only one for hundreds of years.

Does this apply to primaris?

**Aash**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thats two people who've said Thunderhawks. Are those rare somehow?

I said drop pods or thunderhawks because space marines being a self-sufficient fighting force is what makes them useful. They have their own navy and landing craft so aren’t reliant on the imperial navy to get them to combat zones or planetside once they get there. Take away a space marine’s ability to get planetside and it doesn’t matter how many magic knives or super guns they’ve got since they won’t be able to get near enough to their enemies to use them.

Logistics wins wars and all that.

**Gert**

mrFickle wrote:
Does this apply to primaris?

Not to quite the same extent but yeah. A lot of the Ultima Foundings were essentially:
"Welcome to your new homeworld/sector to guard. Here's all your stuff."
"So that's it after 20 years? So long, good luck?"
"I don't recall saying good luck."

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

So, again, if the rumors are to be believed, and HUGE grain of salt, but if it's true that Cawl made Primaris Terminator Armor, or PTDA, then he has the ability to reverse engineer anything, and nothing is now rare. Also, given how he has tens of thousands of Geneseed laying in his Mars Vaults, SOMEHOW, there is nothing really "rare" anymore.

That being said, the only answer now is Gen1 Space Marines, or their war gear. As no one is making new Thunder Hammers or Gen 1 Power Fists.

**Gert**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, again, if the rumors are to be believed, and HUGE grain of salt, but if it's true that Cawl made Primaris Terminator Armor, or PTDA, then he has the ability to reverse engineer anything, and nothing is now rare. Also, given how he has tens of thousands of Geneseed laying in his Mars Vaults, SOMEHOW, there is nothing really "rare" anymore.

The Mechanicus have had huge vaults of geneseed since the Scouring stored all over the galaxy. It's how new Chapters are created or what allows Chapters that have taken huge casualties to rebuild their numbers.
And as for the overreacting "somehow", Cawl had ten thousand years to build up the Primaris project. He had more time, more minds, and more resources than the Emperor had when He created the Legiones Astartes, indeed the first mind Cawl merged with was one of the primary scientists of the Astartes Project who designed the Black Carapace. There's nothing confusing about why there were so many Primaris in the first wave if you read even the rulebook background from 8th ed.

That being said, the only answer now is Gen1 Space Marines, or their war gear. As no one is making new Thunder Hammers or Gen 1 Power Fists.

1 - Yes they are. Nothing pre-Primaris has just been chucked out mid-production and there are still hundreds of Chapters that are primarily Firstborn and that continue to create Firstborn for various reasons.
2 - There is no such thing as a "gen 1 PF". All Power Fists are the same.

**pelicaniforce**

mrFickle wrote:
Gert wrote:
Pretty much everything in the Space Marine armoury is rare.
Suits of Power Armour can be thousands of years old or cobbled together from many different patterns because generally speaking the Mechanicus can't mass produce Astartes equipment in any rapid timeframe. A Chapter might receive a bulk shipment of equipment but that could likely be their only one for hundreds of years.

Does this apply to primaris?

The chapters have always made everything.
It isn’t useful to say “everything is rare because the mechanicus can’t…” because the mechanicus aren’t part of it. Chapters make their stuff.

https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243360-adeptus-astartes-and-technology/

**Gert**

pelicaniforce wrote:
The chapters have always made everything.
It isn’t useful to say “everything is rare because the mechanicus can’t…” because the mechanicus aren’t part of it. Chapters make their stuff.

https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/243360-adeptus-astartes-and-technology/

Some Chapters make their own wargear, such as the Raven Guard who have a Forge World in their home system, or the Salamanders who have smithing as a core belief of the Cult of Prometheus. Many others rely on the Mechanicus to make their arms, armour, and equipment such as the Carcharadons.

**locarno24**

Even for chapters who value craftsmanship: the mechanicus still offers the virtue of dedicated mass production facilities.

Astartes at war consume staggering amounts of ammunition, for example, and no-one wants to see a tech marine sat there making lascannon power packs that aren't dramatically different from the ones used by the guard.

**Flinty**

I would imagine that marines would deal with their own ammunition. That’s the kind of thing that a servitor line can be set up for, and makes it less likely that a chapter will run out of supplies. I recall from somewhere that strike cruisers and battle badges in particular have production lines on them for this purpose.

Given that there are so few marines, it only makes sense for forge worlds to be providing the truly high end ultra tech, so maybe grav vehicles and terminator suits. Everything else can be dealt with through the chapters own fabricators.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

So it's gotta be Terminator armor then? Because that is a finite resource. They can't make more, or even repair it if it's extensively damaged. Terminator armor has to be the single most valuable thing, because aside from plot devices, you can't suddenly come across more of it in a janitor's closet.
Unless Cawl gets to use his "Lore Invalidation device" and suddenly create new Primaris Terminator armor.

*Checks rumor mill*

Damnit....

**Gert**

I think people are trying to be a bit too "yes/no" with regards to weapons and equipment manufacturing.
As with all things Imperium, it's a mess of treaties, pacts, and promises. Chapters can make their own equipment (to a degree) but they don't have to. The Blood Angels, for example, receive half a Company's worth of arms and armour from the Forge World of Anvillus every year for reasons which are believed to be connected to events that occurred during the Heresy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So it's gotta be Terminator armor then? Because that is a finite resource. They can't make more, or even repair it if it's extensively damaged. Terminator armor has to be the single most valuable thing, because aside from plot devices, you can't suddenly come across more of it in a janitor's closet.
Unless Cawl gets to use his "Lore Invalidation device" and suddenly create new Primaris Terminator armor.

*Checks rumor mill*

Damnit....

Terminator armour can still be made, just like Titans, starships, and relics of bonkers power can still be made. It just takes a very long time.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Gert wrote:
I think people are trying to be a bit too "yes/no" with regards to weapons and equipment manufacturing.
As with all things Imperium, it's a mess of treaties, pacts, and promises. Chapters can make their own equipment (to a degree) but they don't have to. The Blood Angels, for example, receive half a Company's worth of arms and armour from the Forge World of Anvillus every year for reasons which are believed to be connected to events that occurred during the Heresy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So it's gotta be Terminator armor then? Because that is a finite resource. They can't make more, or even repair it if it's extensively damaged. Terminator armor has to be the single most valuable thing, because aside from plot devices, you can't suddenly come across more of it in a janitor's closet.
Unless Cawl gets to use his "Lore Invalidation device" and suddenly create new Primaris Terminator armor.

*Checks rumor mill*

Damnit....

Terminator armour can still be made, just like Titans, starships, and relics of bonkers power can still be made. It just takes a very long time.

Thank you for the correction. I am glad you are part of these forums, Gert.

So can I then presume that there is literally no Astartes technology that cannot be replicated given enough time? Excluding of course DaoT tech like Phalanx and named Macguffins like "Godsplitter"?

**Gert**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So can I then presume that there is literally no Astartes technology that cannot be replicated given enough time? Excluding of course DaoT tech like Phalanx and named Macguffins like "Godsplitter"?

Theoretically yes but in reality no due to the nature of the Imperium. The basic (in as basic as Astartes wargear can get) equipment i.e. Bolters, ammo, nuts and bolts, can be made easily enough by most Forge Worlds and shipped to Chapters as part of ongoing pacts between the Chapter and the rulers of said Forge World. The more difficult stuff i.e. Terminator Armour, Land Raiders, Plasma weapons, will often take much longer and is of much greater importance to both its creators and the intended users. If the Magos who specialises in the creation of such equipment dies, then it can be very difficult to continue the process as the Mechanicus is really really bad at sharing. It's why Ryza is such an important world as it alone maintains the greatest knowledge repositories for Plasma technology in the Imperium.

For example:

Spoiler:

**Flinty**

@Gert - please write that up more expansively from the point of view of one of the servitors working on the suits, and submit for animation and I would positively jump on GW+ to watch that

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I am seriously pissed that Gert has in 1 paragraph put together a far more interesting plot line then half of the last 20 BL books I've read. Seriously, GERT for Mayor. Also, please take the Blood Angles book series away from Guy Haley. He's old and his books are starting to read like Itunes agreements. I REALLY don't care about Admiral Whatshisnuts's PTSD, or the bad dreams of a 7' tall Space Vampire. I just want the bad things to be shot with bolters and die. Preferably for under 15$ on Audible. I feel so bad I bought the full price copy of Darkness in the Blood.

**Flinty**

Sean Lock would have been perfect to do the audiobook if he wasn’t dead… I can just see his wacky gesticulations alongside “oh no, convicted of tech heresy again”