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Hi all!

I have a few questions about veteran status and heraldry. I've just assembled my Hellblasters for my multi-company Imperial Fists army (it's a long story but my narrative for them has them cobbled together from various units recovered from the field- so different trims for each unit). Initially I was going to give the Hellblasters a blue trim to indicate 9th company (Fire Support specialists). But I've had such a good time decorating them with tilt shields and other fancy bits that I've developed this idea of elevating them to veteran status. Or at least painting them in a way that makes them stand out from the crowd. I love how white, black, gold and yellow interact and so I'm trying to find a way to give them those colours. I feel this will help them stand out from my Intercessor and Infiltrator units (I really don't want my Hellblasters to blend in with the everyday troops).

Taking this a step further, I'm leaning towards a gold trim with fully white shoulder pads, which I think always looks amazing.

The trouble is canon. My understanding is that you can get veteran individuals in units (I've already done this for my other squads to indicate second in command) and that the entire 1st company is veteran. They can be deployed as support in the form of sternguard, vanguard, bladeguard and terminators.

So, I guess my question is this- is there any precedent for elevating Hellblasters to veteran status as a whole unit? My first thought was a Sternguard unit crossed the Rubicon and didn't want to be reduced to just carrying bolters as Veteran Intercessors so they grabbed the plasma incinerators from the armoury

It gets a bit dicey when I realise I'd have to commit to giving them veteran symbols on their shoulders, too- really cementing them as a different kind of unit to the Fire Support Hellblasters are meant to be. It's very tempting, because I think it will look great. But I'm trying to find the best way to implement it in canon. One aspect that helps is Hellblasters are at least described as being the "best marksmen", suggesting some form of elite status.

Alternatives include painting just one shoulder white- is there any precedent for a decorated unit elevated to partial veteran status? I also wonder about fully black shoulderpads with a gold trim- is there any symbolic meaning to this out there? I've seen some 2nd company Fists with black pads.

So my options are:

1. Hellblasters with blue trim to indicate 9th company
2. "Veteran" Hellblasters with a white trim and white helmets (with the Veteran symbol on their right pads)
3. "Veteran" Hellblasters with white shoulderpads and helmets with a gold trim (with the Veteran symbol on their right pads)
4. "Decorated" Hellblasters with one white shoulderpad and a gold trim (with the Fire Support symbol on their right pads)
5. "Decorated" Hellblasters with black shoulderpads and gold trims (with the Fire Support symbol on their right pads)

Any input or advice would be very welcome

Don’t worry too much about canon.
Paint what’s cool for you-if someone poops on you for that, they’re not worth your time.

That being said, I see no reason a chapter wouldn’t deploy veterans with plasma if the situation called for it. Mark X armor is modular, so veterans could deploy as any Primaris unit, really. It might not be pure canon, but it’s not some atrocious bastardization of the fluff. It’s a cool paint job.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a special colour scheme to denote them as Veterans. I'm of the opinion that Veteran units should be reflected from a modeling position rather than a painting one, and from your description of the unit you have built I'd say they still easily stand out. If you really want to do something to mark them as special painting-wise then I'd go for a black helm with a white stripe on the whole unit to hearken back to some Great Crusade-era markings for Heavy Support units:

Thanks, JNA! Yeah I tend towards doing my own thing, I just try to line it up with lore where I can I appreciate the confirmation regarding veterans and modular armour! Very helpful! Would it be weird to have a "Veteran" squad taking up a Heavy Support slot? I think I might be overthinking it, haha.

Thanks, Gert- yeah I've definitely given them some upgrades, haha. They're wearing Heavy Intercessor helmets and have one Gravis shoulder pad on their left side (in addition to tilt shields and a lot of decorations). I am still kinda tempted to give them some colour variation, though. My army is very infantry heavy (Intercessors x20, Infiltrators x10, Bladeguard x12, Eliminators x9, Inceptors x10) so I've tried to make every unit a little different. One of my Intercessor squads is heavily modified with their aquila's removed in favour of pouches and practical gear (Sergeant Siegmund's Sappers, haha). Generally I don't want any two units to look the same (and I want to have a new painting experience each time).

Looking at that nifty heraldry sheet, "Destroyers" caught my eye. Looking them up, it sounds like they used extra nasty weapons- radioactive or chemical, etc. Doesn't seem a huge leap away from experimental, overcharged plasma weapons that could blow the user up? I could give them black shoulders and helmets to hearken back to the Destroyers? Although, weirdly, it looks like Destroyers had a default loadout of a pair of pistols. Black would also set them apart from the white shoulders I have planned for the Bladeguard. Hmm!

Veterans pretty much get to choose their loadout to fit the mission. Just have them all decide that plasma rifles are what is needed. Every time. All the time. As it should be

Surely the main problem with the idea of "Veteran" Hellblasters is how many will kill themselves with their own weapon in each engagement, so they wouldn't survive for long enough to achieve Veteran status...

 Dysartes wrote:
Surely the main problem with the idea of "Veteran" Hellblasters is how many will kill themselves with their own weapon in each engagement, so they wouldn't survive for long enough to achieve Veteran status...

well, canonically, they very rarely use the full power setting except in the most dire circumstances, where the high risk of killing a valuable primaris is outweighed by the benefit... Also, hellblasters are a temporary assignment, not a full time job, intercessors rotate into and out of it as needed, same as they move into and out of the other armour levels (ie, a primaris might be a heavy intercessor one mission, a infiltrator another mission, then a assault intercessor on the third, all as the situation and resources dictate)

That's really helpful regarding the way Primaris can hop between loadouts. I like the flexibility inherent to the Primaris. Makes finding lore explanations for whatever you choose to model easier

Sounds like we have plenty of good reasons for Veterans with Plasma Incinerators, then!

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the other option- giving them a connection to Crusade era Destroyer squads? I've been rolling it around in my head tonight. Black shoulder pads (stick with the Fire Support symbol on the right), black helmets and black knee pads- I could freehand the Destroyer symbol there (almost a radiation symbol, really).

Contrary to the usual caution about overcharging I figure if I went down this road I could give them some fun lore about being a squad of extreme plasma users who always overcharge and are over-eager tank-hunters willing to use whatever means will bring their mark down (hence the throwback to the Destroyer squads).

I suppose the main question at this point is whether they'll look better with white or black shoulder pads, haha! Black would set them apart from my Bladeguard Veterans, but white does look great next to yellow and gold, I've found.

I'd go for black personally.

Thanks I'm leaning that way!

My understanding is that you can get veteran individuals in units (I've already done this for my other squads to indicate second in command)

As you know from doing this, veteran is a rank an these individual veterans just have a white helmet because that’s the veteran rank, they don’t have white pads because they’re not in the first company or a cross for their tactical marking because they’re not in a vet squad.

You could have helblasters that are all veteran rank, Indint think there would ever be a squad with the veteran cross for their tactical marking. As a tactical marking/role the veteran squad is supposed to be able to be a spear tip, for example the first squad through a hull breach, able to defend itself and win a firefight unsupported. Plasma is a support weapon, it’s not built for that. In game terms even though a bolt gun and plasma can both be rapid fire, a more simulation-like game would have bolt guns and las guns etc able to fire at full BS in both the player’s phase and over watch at full BS in the opponent’s phase, while the plasma could only shoot in one of those and probably need a Ld check to get full BS. Hell blasters are only able to function in a whole ecosystem of units, not in a veteran squad or forlorn hope type of role.

The stuff about hat color being rank, trim color being company, and right shoulder symbol being tac role is all canon. The next part is the opinion/advice. Nothing says that every single marine in the ninth company will end up transferring through all the companies, or that every marine who gets a white helmet will transfer to the vet company. Your squad should have trim from the ninth company, white helmets because that’s their rank, and then the interesting part is that their right shoulder inset is black with the destroyer symbol. Your destroyer squad would be the squad 1 for ninth company.

There’s a chronicle of an Ultramarine named Pollandrus in the 2019 space marine codex. It says that not everyone in a company get to immediately do all the roles. In the ninth he has to serve as an Eliminator before getting to be a hellblaster, in the the tactical reserve he has to first be a repulsor crew, then an infiltrator, then eventually an intercessor. You could take this example to say that it’s possible to progress from Hellblaster to Hellblaster+, a destroyer, and there are fewer than 15 in the home chapter. Some of them are Marines who were so good at hellblasting they never left ninth, some of them were veterans in the battle company hellblasters who transferred back to the ninth to join the destroyers, maybe a couple are terminator vets who transferred back.

Pelicaniforce, this is fantastic! Thanks very much for your very helpful ideas. Plenty of great ways to approach the unit's lore. I'll have to think about what will be most visually interesting! I hadn't considered mixing the black insets with blue trims (or white helmets for that matter). Much to consider! I also love your ideas for the "Destroyer" squad being an elite team in the ninth.

My research continues and I've just heard about "Sternhelms", Imperial Fist veteran sergeants who are a little extra elite and get a black helm with a white stripe. Interesting, although I'm unlikely to use the theme as my sergeant is bare-headed. Could provide added justification if I decide my elite "destroyers" should have black helms to match their shoulders, though. I'll probably still have a squad veteran with a white helm as I like the way it makes them stand out

I thought it might be nice or helpful to see the minis I'm working with and the customisations I've made. I've given them a gravis pad for their left shoulders along with a gravis head (I like them). I've also given them tilt shields and applied both the "assault" and "heavy" bits- I like the scopes and the backpacks (besides, it gives me a little flexibility in how to arm them).

It would be fun to find some way to customise their weapon to make them look "over-tuned", a little radioactive and like they've often pushed them to the bring of overloading (as is appropriate for a squad carrying "Destroyer" heraldry). The radiation idea is tricky as I definitely prefer the idea of blue coils to green (which is obviously the colour of radiation ). But we'll see.

It’s funny that green has become the pop culture radiation marker

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

Haha, true! I wonder if there's some way to thematically combine plasma with "phosphex", the nasty incendiary used by the Legion Destroyers.