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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/26 17:19:57
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This may be established lore I'm ignorant of, or it might just be empty conjecture on my part. I'm curious to know which.
Knowing the Alpha Legion has endless cells with different, even conflicting allegiances, and that they have endless manipulative, convoluted plots-within-plots-within-plots, they seem like the ultimate expression of Tzeentch's Rube Goldberg plotting and manipulation.
So are they considered, like the Thousand Sons, to belong to Tzeentch, whether or not they like or worship him? If Khorne cares not from whom the blood flows, making all bloodletting a form of worship, could the same be said of Tzeentch and master plotters who scheme to tip the balance of power? Do the Alpha Legion pay him tribute just by doing what they do best, and so ultimately belong to him?
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Dakkadakka: Bringing wargamers together, one smile at a time.™ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/26 17:59:11
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
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Nope. At least not as a Legion/whole.
There’s even still debate as to whether they’re truly Chaotic, or more wild card. Though I have to admit I’ve only read their Heresy novels, nothing from the 40K setting.
Tzeentch will gain something from their shenanigans though, as such Residuals are what make Slaanesh so dangerous to his Brother Gods, as any act of excess or pleasure ultimately provides a crumb for Slaanesh’s table, even if the act was dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch et al.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/27 01:05:03
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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What Grotsnik said. There are, presumably, Tzeentchian individuals among the legion, but they don't seem to be "claimed" by him in any substantial way. I guess not every warband that likes melee belongs to Khorne and not every warband that likes plotting belongs to Tzeentch. I suspect scheming and stabbery don't get treated as being as innately corrupting as things like decay and hedonism because both of those things are kind of... omnipresent in the setting. If you made them too powerful of a corrupting influence, it would be hard justifying non-Khornate/Tzeentchian factions.
There’s even still debate as to whether they’re truly Chaotic, or more wild card.
While I like the idea of the twins playing some sort of long game, it's pretty heavily implied at this point that the Alpha Legion itself doesn't really know what they're doing any more. Some of them are full on daemon princes. Some of them think they're strengthening the imperium by exposing and destroying its weaknesses. Some simply never received their next set of orders and don't know what to do with themselves. They're delightfully all over the places.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/28 16:27:26
Subject: Re:Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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My thanks for setting the record straight, you two. I still think there's something a bit Kairos Fateweavery about the Twins, and the Legion shares a lot with Tzeentch in the plans-within-plans plotting ad absurdum realm. But in terms of official lore, that's all in my head.
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Dakkadakka: Bringing wargamers together, one smile at a time.™ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 14:56:54
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Re: the Twins being twins, there's an established thing about how twins (at least human and eldar twins) work in the setting. That is, they are explicitly stated by various eldar, Ahriman, and I believe Alpharius/Omegon, to share a single soul that may or may not separate more and more over time.
This is why some eldar warmachines (revenant titans, wraithknights) have twins as (part of) their crews; there's a stronger connection thanks to the shared soul. Think drifting from Pacific Rim.
Ahriman talks about having a unique psychic connection to his twin brother as well, and Omegon seems to be able to sense the (alleged) death of Alpharius when it happens.
That's probably not super relevant to this discussion, but it's an established bit of lore that tends to not be stated outright in the codices very often (if at all).
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 15:00:29
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Well the primarchs were made from knowledge gained from the gods, and the legions made from the genetic material of the primarch. Absolutely no reason why knowledge gained from Tzeentch wasn't used in to massively
enhance A&O's covert trickery.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 15:03:16
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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TBF the Alpha Legion share the plans within plans thing because they're a spec ops Legion that operates almost entirely within cells ranging from one Astartes to Heresy-era company sizes.
Think of it like resistance movements during WW2. A cell in Paris wouldn't know anything about another cell in Lyon or Bordeaux but they would all generally work towards the same goal using different methods and tactics.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 17:59:58
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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AL would be a great TZ army if I’m they were properly confirmed as being a traitor legion but GW want thinks that we all want a big question mark over them. Then puts them in the CSM codex cos there’s no where else to put them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 19:50:21
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Its not nearly as big a mystery as people make it out to be. The Alpha Legion as a whole doesn't really exist and the largest of Warbands are very much CSM. If you read BL fiction and even just the Codex stuff for the Alpha Legion they are overwhelmingly portrayed as into Chaos as the Red Corsairs, Iron Warriors or Night Lords.
Being a CSM doesn't mean you make sacrifices or perform rituals before every battle like the Word Bearers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/29 23:23:43
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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They are what they need to be to get the mission done.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/08/30 17:17:19
Subject: Do the Alpha Legion belong to Tzeentch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Gert wrote:Its not nearly as big a mystery as people make it out to be. The Alpha Legion as a whole doesn't really exist and the largest of Warbands are very much CSM. If you read BL fiction and even just the Codex stuff for the Alpha Legion they are overwhelmingly portrayed as into Chaos as the Red Corsairs, Iron Warriors or Night Lords.
Being a CSM doesn't mean you make sacrifices or perform rituals before every battle like the Word Bearers.
Pretty much this. If nothing else, the difference between actual traitors and secret loyalists is pretty much academic. We know that, if there is some big overarching plan, your average legionaire didn't get the memo. So while you do have some warbands that think they're "helping" the imperium, they're still attacking imperial assets, on the imperium's naughty list, etc.
It's part of why I find the AL interesting. Some of them get to twirl their moustaches like Word Bearers. Others were just waiting for the next set of orders from someone who knew the bigger plan, and now those orders are never going to come. So they're forced to decide what to do with themselves when they're suddenly not part of the Twins' schemes.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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