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How powerful are the Necron Phaerons compared to both Primarchs and Phoenix Lords?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ru
Regular Dakkanaut




For example, can Ahmotekh defeat Lion? Or can Xun'bakyr defeat Jain Zar?
   
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Fixture of Dakka





I don't know much about the phaerons, but I know that phoenix lords are generally depicted as way less overtly powerful than primarchs. There's an infamous scene where Karandras gets one-shotted by a random dreadnaught. I struggle to picture the same happening to any of the primarchs.

Then again, PLs having a built-in explanation for coming back to life does mean they have less in-the-moment plot armor than primarchs, and reasonable people could argue that the legendary heroes of the galaxy's most psychic species should be significantly more impressive than they are.

Also, as with any of these, "My dad could beat up your dad," threads, it depends on who's writing the book and who the protagonist is.


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Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Depends on how you define power.

A Phaeron has near total control over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Canoptek Constructs and Necrons - all of which are capable of, or outright designed for war. And typically armed with pretty nasty weapons.

Even at the zenith of the Great Crusade, it’s kind of hard to say if a Primarch wielded as much military might.

Then there’s Phaeron’s being for all intents and purposes Truly Immortal. Even if you kick their head in, or off for that matter, they can phase out and ultimately survive the encounter, especially if the battle isn’t taking place on their native Tomb World.

Lop the head off a non-Daemon Primarch, and they’re dead dead. Lop the head off a Daemon Primarch and they’re banished. Lop the head off a Phoenix Lord? Well….depends on when and where. That incarnation is about as dead as dead can get, but only until someone else picks up the literal mantle. If the Eldar win that battle overall? Potentially minutes to resurrection. But if they lose, and can’t recover the armour? Nobody’s seeing that Phoenix Lord for a while.


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 Wyldhunt wrote:
I don't know much about the phaerons, but I know that phoenix lords are generally depicted as way less overtly powerful than primarchs. There's an infamous scene where Karandras gets one-shotted by a random dreadnaught. I struggle to picture the same happening to any of the primarchs.

Then again, PLs having a built-in explanation for coming back to life does mean they have less in-the-moment plot armor than primarchs, and reasonable people could argue that the legendary heroes of the galaxy's most psychic species should be significantly more impressive than they are.

Also, as with any of these, "My dad could beat up your dad," threads, it depends on who's writing the book and who the protagonist is.

Karandras allowed himself to be killed by the Dreadnought in order to save the former Incubus. Vulkan was shot with shuriken pistols by John Grammaticus, not the strongest character in 40k
   
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@darkoms: Fair. Maybe a better example would be Jain Zar's fight with a greater daemon in her own novel where she basically went,

"Ehhh. I might be able to beat this thing on my own, but it would take way more time than I have right now."

That puts the PLs in a much more flattering light. I'm not sure how many examples we have of primarchs facing off against greater daemons or threats of similar scale.

Fair point on Vulkan, although (without having read that particular book) I'd point out that being a perpetual kind of gives him the same lack of plot armor than the phoenix lords have.

I'm struggling to think of meaningful threats to primarchs we've seen that aren't, themselves, primarchs. The only example that comes to mind is War of the Fang where an aspect of daemon prince Magnus gets beaten up by some space wolf HQs and a dreadnaught (Bjorn?). But even there, it's implied that that may have been a smaller sliver of Magnus rather than his full self.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Magnus has wrecked Eldar Titans. Sanguinius has taken out Exalted Daemons, and I think at least one Titan (by wrecking his way into the command deck and slaughtering the crew).

Mind you, Wazzadakka has gotten an Engine Kill much the same way, just involving a motorbike. Which is way cooler.

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Made in de
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




Bamberg / Erlangen

Isn't Phaeron more a title, rather than a being?

While it is likely that you've got access to some really good wargear on top of your formidable Necron body, your martial prowess is irrelevant.

A Phoenix Lord otoh is by definition the physical manifestation / the perfect specimen of the chosen fighting style (within an Eldar framework).

Primarchs are a bit of a mixture, as fighting capability varies wildly between them (Lorgar <-> Magnus), but the very nature of being created as a Primarch comes with some really rad abs and hero spotlight by default.

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 Wyldhunt wrote:
The only example that comes to mind is War of the Fang where an aspect of daemon prince Magnus gets beaten up by some space wolf HQs and a dreadnaught (Bjorn?). But even there, it's implied that that may have been a smaller sliver of Magnus rather than his full self.

Havq a qoute?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Magnus has wrecked Eldar Titans. Sanguinius has taken out Exalted Daemons, and I think at least one Titan (by wrecking his way into the command deck and slaughtering the crew).

Mind you, Wazzadakka has gotten an Engine Kill much the same way, just involving a motorbike. Which is way cooler.

Magnus is on a completely different level than the other primarchs. It would be more appropriate to compare him with Eldrad or Orikan in his super form

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/02 13:56:29


 
   
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darkoms wrote:
 Wyldhunt wrote:
The only example that comes to mind is War of the Fang where an aspect of daemon prince Magnus gets beaten up by some space wolf HQs and a dreadnaught (Bjorn?). But even there, it's implied that that may have been a smaller sliver of Magnus rather than his full self.

Havq a qoute?


Afraid I don't. It's from the War of the Fang novel. Magnus shows up in daemon primarch form and gets smacked down by like, two guys and a dreadnaught over the course of a chapter as part of the climax. There's a scene earlier in the book where Magnus appears in the form of a kid and one of the sorcerers is like,
"Dad, where did your ripped abs go?"
And Magnus says something about the kid form being a metaphor for potential yet to be realized or something. Basically saying that he hasn't transported his full strength to Fenris yet. But iirc, it's slightly vague whether he means that he just hasn't sent over enough energy to warrant Macho Man Magnus Savage form yet, or if even his full daemon primarch form that gets smacked down later is just a piece of him.

I... kind of hope that wasn't his full strength form, because his beatdown is a bit embarrassing if it was.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Magnus has wrecked Eldar Titans. Sanguinius has taken out Exalted Daemons, and I think at least one Titan (by wrecking his way into the command deck and slaughtering the crew).



I just read that scene last night. Mr. Perfect slows a hole in the neck, slaughters the crew, drops a couple melta bombs into the reactor, breaks the eye lens and flies away with a few of his jump pack buddies as the titan blows up. This was an Imperator titan...
   
Made in ru
Regular Dakkanaut




 Wyldhunt wrote:
darkoms wrote:
 Wyldhunt wrote:
The only example that comes to mind is War of the Fang where an aspect of daemon prince Magnus gets beaten up by some space wolf HQs and a dreadnaught (Bjorn?). But even there, it's implied that that may have been a smaller sliver of Magnus rather than his full self.

Havq a qoute?


Afraid I don't. It's from the War of the Fang novel. Magnus shows up in daemon primarch form and gets smacked down by like, two guys and a dreadnaught over the course of a chapter as part of the climax. There's a scene earlier in the book where Magnus appears in the form of a kid and one of the sorcerers is like,
"Dad, where did your ripped abs go?"
And Magnus says something about the kid form being a metaphor for potential yet to be realized or something. Basically saying that he hasn't transported his full strength to Fenris yet. But iirc, it's slightly vague whether he means that he just hasn't sent over enough energy to warrant Macho Man Magnus Savage form yet, or if even his full daemon primarch form that gets smacked down later is just a piece of him.

I... kind of hope that wasn't his full strength form, because his beatdown is a bit embarrassing if it was.

Considering that in the Siege of Fenris he shows much more impressive advances (like destroying ships in orbit), this most likely was not his full form
   
 
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