Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So does anyone give any credence to the rumor that Scions will be heavily restricted, as in, you cannot spam Plasma Command squads or load up on SW/HWs anymore? I mean, at this point why even keep them as a separate sub faction? Why not just make them a full on Guard Elites slot choice? The only reason I spent the time building up and painting Melta and Plasma death squads was because it was the only good option for their play style. I really hope this isn't true, as it invalidates the entire reason for taking a super troopers with ultra special weapons. Now they are just slightly overcosted veterans.

Do you think Guard need SW/HW restrictions? Were Command Squads broken?

Is the rumour plausible? Depends, how many of each SW/HW does the Scion kit come with? Is it a good thing, if true? Certainly not.

I'm going to guess that the restriction will match the bits available in the box. So the command squad would be allowed to take four different special weapons

Brickfix wrote:
I'm going to guess that the restriction will match the bits available in the box. So the command squad would be allowed to take four different special weapons

And just like that Command Squads were never seen again.

 vipoid wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
I'm going to guess that the restriction will match the bits available in the box. So the command squad would be allowed to take four different special weapons

And just like that Command Squads were never seen again.

I actually think someone said they were gone LOL

Either that or they're forced to be one-of-each-specialty

"Patiently waits for a different wargame that focuses on tactics, or for 10th edition"

Yes, it's stupid as hell and inexcusable but it's what GW has been doing with 9th. Unfortunately when I've brought this up before most people seem to think it's just fine, because who cares if your army is invalidated as long as the new one wins more games.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Now they are just slightly overcosted veterans.

That ain't no longer a problem because, y'know, Veterans are getting the axe anyway .

Otherwise, this new AM codex lost me somewhere around Ursula Creed, so no, I don't think I have the strength to give a gak about weapon restrictions. If you catch my drift.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
I'm going to guess that the restriction will match the bits available in the box. So the command squad would be allowed to take four different special weapons

And just like that Command Squads were never seen again.

I actually think someone said they were gone LOL

Either that or they're forced to be one-of-each-specialty

To my mind, it amounts to the same thing regardless.

just get more recruits, an IG army should have at least 100+ infantry, keeping up with the meta, you should have 250-500 infantry of various combinations so when the codex/chapter approve comes out you can rotate what you need.

Why would you want to reward GW and encourage them to do even more predatory marketing ploys?

I feel this is just an inflammatory thread really, it's so heavily baited to just make people spam the usual comments I wonder what else could have been intended.

Well, according to Auspex tactics, we also just lost Conscripts, except for Cadians, which can take White Shields. So infantry spam is not really as effective.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, according to Auspex tactics, we also just lost Conscripts, except for Cadians, which can take White Shields. So infantry spam is not really as effective.

Don't infantry spam builds rely on Whiteshields already? So if anything they become more effective due to not needing to spend CP on upgrading Conscripts.

Command squad plasma spam was dumb anyway, so I’d be glad to have it gone. Command squads will still be played because they are the HQ choice now.

The other changes are mildly annoying, but not too bad overall. Kasrkin and scions being relegated to two different special weapons per 5 isn’t great, but getting 4 specials in a 10 man squad is actually a lot already. At least it’s better than the skitarii or plague marine datasheets.

Infantry squads didn’t change so no issue there. Conscripts going away is thematically lame, but they haven’t been useful for a long time anyway.

Dandelion wrote:
Kasrkin and scions being relegated to two different special weapons per 5 isn’t great

Only Scions get that treatment, Kasrkin has the bits in the box to double-up on specials so they will most likely get the option for it too.

Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't like that GW is basically saying "F your fully painted and completed armies for the last 2-3 editions, everything is now Cadian or piss off"

I also understand that Command Squads with quad shooting plasma was a bit broken, but now with fishing 6's, is it really that over the top?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't like that GW is basically saying "F your fully painted and completed armies for the last 2-3 editions, everything is now Cadian or piss off"

I also understand that Command Squads with quad shooting plasma was a bit broken, but now with fishing 6's, is it really that over the top?

Ignoring all that, a command squad is meant to be the entourage of the commander, made of specialists that keep the order of the army working. Not a cheap 4 plasma gun squad.

My understanding is the new guard rules no longer have penalties for mixing regiments (or specifically regiment specific units).

So ‘Cadian Shock Troops’ and ‘Whiteshields’ are basically just themed names for ‘veterans’ and ‘conscripts’ respectively, with actual models for the former this time.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't like that GW is basically saying "F your fully painted and completed armies for the last 2-3 editions, everything is now Cadian or piss off"

I also understand that Command Squads with quad shooting plasma was a bit broken, but now with fishing 6's, is it really that over the top?

But isn't the new codex "here, pick your traits as you wish, you can play whatever Regiment you want - there're no specific rules to them anymore" ? At least that's what I read so far.
Rules no longer being locked into specific subfactions sounds like a great idea for EVERY codex, tbh - especially if they're staying true to the "no more matched play rules in Campaign books etc".

Dudeface wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't like that GW is basically saying "F your fully painted and completed armies for the last 2-3 editions, everything is now Cadian or piss off"

I also understand that Command Squads with quad shooting plasma was a bit broken, but now with fishing 6's, is it really that over the top?

Ignoring all that, a command squad is meant to be the entourage of the commander, made of specialists that keep the order of the army working. Not a cheap 4 plasma gun squad.

But...but...efficiency...math hammer says it's the only way...

Racerguy180 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't like that GW is basically saying "F your fully painted and completed armies for the last 2-3 editions, everything is now Cadian or piss off"

I also understand that Command Squads with quad shooting plasma was a bit broken, but now with fishing 6's, is it really that over the top?

Ignoring all that, a command squad is meant to be the entourage of the commander, made of specialists that keep the order of the army working. Not a cheap 4 plasma gun squad.

But...but...efficiency...math hammer says it's the only way...

I won't argue that the medic/standard/comms guy etc all have been historically rubbish, but the answer seems to be make them worthwhile more than anything. As to those with multiple 4 weapon squads, you'll need to split them into your infantry squads now I guess and/or just have more flexibility. They're not "invalidated" so much as the layout of the army changes.

I keep forgetting Meta chasing is not Chic or in vogue with this board, oh wait, yes it is. Stop acting like it's a mortal sin to take the best options in a codex. I'm sorry my 8th Ed Guard faction didn't consist entirely of Scout Sentinels, Infantry Squads with Grenade launchers, and a command squad of Snipers, and a standard bearer.

Also, lets not bring the fluff into this. The Fluff dictates that we waste points of Commissars, almost never see a Lord Commissar below a full Regiment, and rarely if ever see a Space Marine.

Also, while you can "pick two" regimental bonuses, you can't mix and match units, as I currently understand it. No Vostoyan or Catachan Conscript spam. You pick 2 regimental bonuses, a Primary Regiment, and then your available units are based off that. Do I have that wrong?

 Big Mac wrote:
just get more recruits, an IG army should have at least 100+ infantry, keeping up with the meta, you should have 250-500 infantry of various combinations so when the codex/chapter approve comes out you can rotate what you need.

Hell, I'm running 100+ infantry plus vehicles in my Votann list. Imperial Guard should outnumber them by 50% at least.

Votann shouldn't be outnumbering anyone. Can we re-examin the fluff that indicates their species is on verge of extinction?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Stop acting like it's a mortal sin to take the best options in a codex.

I'm fairly sure that a full-plasma/melta Command/Scion Squad is only a "decent"/not-great-not-terrible option in the current meta.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Votann shouldn't be outnumbering anyone. Can we re-examin the fluff that indicates their species is on verge of extinction?

This is 9th edition, Fez. Gw doesn't write rules to "reflect the fluff" anymore. Or is there some fluff that I've missed explaining how those LoV railguns can blow right through force fields, but bounce off of a Leman Russ'/Land Raider's armour? Or why said Leman Russ has superior armour to a Custodes vehicle?

 AtoMaki wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Stop acting like it's a mortal sin to take the best options in a codex.

I'm fairly sure that a full-plasma/melta Command/Scion Squad is only a "decent"/not-great-not-terrible option in the current meta.

But that's fluff breaking, you should be taking one of each weapon so you're not a WAAC power gamer!!!!1!

EviscerationPlague wrote:
But that's fluff breaking, you should be taking one of each weapon so you're not a WAAC power gamer!!!!1!

*Breathes in* Ohboyo, if I was up to play by the fluff then I wouldn't be playing at all because outside of MyDudes being literally whoever I want them to be my options would be jackgak and extremely questionable FW organization charts .

Dudeface wrote:
They're not "invalidated" so much as the layout of the army changes.

Changing the layout of the army is invalidating it if you've built and painted your units as complete units, not a pile of random models that gets formed into different units for each game. But I suppose the WAAC meta chasers won't care about things like that as long as the new codex is good at winning games for a few months.