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GW will most likely make every race models bigger. First Primaris marines to replace space marines model. 2. Now imperial guards have increased size to space marine size. That means orcs and the other races will have to be increased in size. A good way to make everyone have to buy their armies all over again.

 IwinUlose wrote:
GW will most likely make every race models bigger. First Primaris marines to replace space marines model. 2. Now imperial guards have increased size to space marine size. That means orcs and the other races will have to be increased in size. A good way to make everyone have to buy their armies all over again.

Companies do subsist by making money, and a product that only needs to be bought once isn't all that profitable. I don't know what else can be said about that, though I can't say that model scale appears to matter all that much. I've seen lots of people playing firstborn only armies locally for years now, even with primaris.

They're answering the fan demand for 54mm Inquisitor minis.... just very slowly and iteratively.

I'm not buying my armies again. They're awesome, and since they're older models they're already scaled appropriately with one another

Ebay Ebay Ebay, tra la laaa

 ScarletRose wrote:
They're answering the fan demand for 54mm Inquisitor minis.... just very slowly and iteratively.

Bigger minis, smaller table space :9 at some point where going to be placing models on a big playmat and playing a game with no movement or terrain. Won’t be the space.



I always disliked the big GW scale, and I don’t like this. I even wonder if they are doing it as a way to force out some of the completion that has Minis usable by 40k players.

 IwinUlose wrote:
GW will most likely make every race models bigger. First Primaris marines to replace space marines model. 2. Now imperial guards have increased size to space marine size. That means orcs and the other races will have to be increased in size. A good way to make everyone have to buy their armies all over again.

You must be new. This has been happening with GW since the 1980s.

And no, you don't have to re-buy all your stuff. You might want to, but you don't have to.

Putting the Primaris aside as they are actually intended to be larger.

The inherent problem with the old minis is that they were far from proportional. This means that if an artist wants to make the new sculpts proportional they can either make the mini larger or too fine(and therefore more fragile). I imagine GW thought it would be better overall to make them larger because: Sturdier, more fun to paint, looks better. The other inherent problem is that a lot of the old sculpts were done by hand by people who weren't as skilled as they are now. So I imagine that they wanted to improve on the old design(which I think they did).

I am currently looking at the old imperial guard model and they kind of look like someone's 12 year old kid put on the gear and is cosplaying their parents. If they'd kept the same size and made proportional then the new line of IG would have looked like they were 5 foot tall and skinny as Steve Rogers in the first Captain America movie before getting the super soldier serum.

Ultimately there is no way to make everyone happy. It's the nature of humans if you think about it. If they'd kept the same height as before I imagine the complaints would just have been the same, just from another angle(they look too anemic!). In the end it always ends as an impasse.

Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

'Scale Creep' has been a thing for years.
As said, Primaris get bigger boots when they drink the Rubicon (that's how it works, yeah?), so they're allowed to be bigger. But, models have been getting replaced with bigger models for ages.

Necrons and Orks stayed at the same size when they were redone (Beast Snaggas are slightly bigger, but they're supposed to be and with Orks it's actually fine ). So it's not the same for every faction.
GW is about to finish the human factions, so... If Renegade Guard, Cultists, Sisters and Imperial Guard look okay next to each other and a (Primaris) Marine or a new Chaos Marine is still a bit larger I'm okay with that.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Necrons and Orks stayed at the same size when they were redone (Beast Snaggas are slightly bigger, but they're supposed to be and with Orks it's actually fine ). So it's not the same for every faction.
GW is about to finish the human factions, so... If Renegade Guard, Cultists, Sisters and Imperial Guard look okay next to each other and a (Primaris) Marine or a new Chaos Marine is still a bit larger I'm okay with that.

Yeah that sounds right to me too.

I had seen some initial pics that made the new kasrkin look huge but other scale shots make them seem right (I think a lot of the pics I'd seen making them appear huge had more to do with with the posing of the minis and camera angles). They're definitely bigger than the old plastic cadians but they look right next to the other modern minis.

I'm confident GW have got an established scale now and are sticking to it.

As for having to start your army over?

Nope. Not at all. You may have to rebase depending on your local scene and gaming preference. But not replace models.

And trust me. If an opponent is trying to score points or what have you because your older models aren’t quite the same size as the latest version? They don’t care about that really. They’re just TFG, and if it wasn’t your models they’re moaning about, it would be something else. Because that’s what they get off on.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

They rescaled Marines around the start of 2nd, but they were then consistently scaled for about 20 years. Guardsmen were all about the same size with minor variation for the plastic regiments. Eldar were stable for a long time too.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

They rescaled Marines around the start of 2nd, but they were then consistently scaled for about 20 years. Guardsmen were all about the same size with minor variation for the plastic regiments. Eldar were stable for a long time too.

Amazing how easy it to have a stable model range when it never gets updated. Eldar had it easy. Same could be said for SoB. They got like 25 years of scale creep all at once.

There's an article on Spikeybits from a couple hours ago that shows some more side by sides.

It looks like the Kasrkin are deliberately bigger, but the new Guardsmen look like they're the same size as the old Guardsmen, but better proportioned.

https://spikeybits.com/2022/10/rumors-new-imperial-guard-miniatures-size-comparison.html

 Eldarsif wrote:
Putting the Primaris aside as they are actually intended to be larger.

The inherent problem with the old minis is that they were far from proportional. This means that if an artist wants to make the new sculpts proportional they can either make the mini larger or too fine(and therefore more fragile). I imagine GW thought it would be better overall to make them larger because: Sturdier, more fun to paint, looks better. The other inherent problem is that a lot of the old sculpts were done by hand by people who weren't as skilled as they are now. So I imagine that they wanted to improve on the old design(which I think they did). .

If there's any "inherent problem" it lies with the specific artist hired & whomever approved thier work.
Because theirs many artists & companies (including GW on occasion) who have no problem producing properly proportioned figures in x scale - without being too fine/fragile.

Looks like the Kasrkin are marginally bigger, but I suspect that might be intentional to make the lads in Carapace Armour chunkier than the regular grunts. The reggo Cadians look to be about the same as the DKoK, who are pretty consistent with 40K "human-scale'" since the advent of the AdMech range, back whenever that was.

Tbh, Citadel have massively improved on scale in recent years – everything's loads more consistent, and better relative to the other ranges, than it used to me.

The old Cadians are very small - so in some ways if the comparison pictures are right, I'm surprised nu-Guard aren't quite a bit bigger.

 Eldarsif wrote:
The inherent problem with the old minis is that they were far from proportional. This means that if an artist wants to make the new sculpts proportional they can either make the mini larger or too fine(and therefore more fragile).

Necron Warriors are more spindly than a true-28mm human, tons and tons of GW models are full of frail bits that make them hard to transport, and companies with a hundredth the budget of GW seem to make more proportional humanoid figures without them breaking constantly.

The idea that GW has to upscale to make more realistic proportions without the models breaking is just weird.

Even though they've done digital sculpting for a while I suspect it has helped them a lot in achieving a more uniform scale system to work with (even if it evolves over time). One issue with hand sculpting is that different sculptors might well vary a little and once a model is done its not a simple step to add height or adapt it.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

They rescaled Marines around the start of 2nd, but they were then consistently scaled for about 20 years. Guardsmen were all about the same size with minor variation for the plastic regiments. Eldar were stable for a long time too.

Amazing how easy it to have a stable model range when it never gets updated. Eldar had it easy. Same could be said for SoB. They got like 25 years of scale creep all at once.

While Eldar still use some old sculpts, there are other parts of the range that have been updated multiple times. Scorpions, Banshees, Reapers, Avengers have all been updated several times since RT/2nd. The thing is, because Eldar also had older sculpts, the updates didn't shift too much in scale as they still had to look cohesive as an army.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

They rescaled Marines around the start of 2nd, but they were then consistently scaled for about 20 years. Guardsmen were all about the same size with minor variation for the plastic regiments. Eldar were stable for a long time too.

Amazing how easy it to have a stable model range when it never gets updated. Eldar had it easy. Same could be said for SoB. They got like 25 years of scale creep all at once.

While Eldar still use some old sculpts, there are other parts of the range that have been updated multiple times. Scorpions, Banshees, Reapers, Avengers have all been updated several times since RT/2nd. The thing is, because Eldar also had older sculpts, the updates didn't shift too much in scale as they still had to look cohesive as an army.

You are correct. I don’t have the new guardians, but do have some RT lead fighting side by side with plastic/finecast aspects. Most are OK, but the banshee is a little short.

After the last update I need to curb my knee-jerk “our model range is stupidly old” reflex. Bad habit, even for jokes.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Look to Rogue Trader era minis.

Regardless of what one thinks of it, rescaling isn’t a modern phenomena.

They rescaled Marines around the start of 2nd, but they were then consistently scaled for about 20 years. Guardsmen were all about the same size with minor variation for the plastic regiments. Eldar were stable for a long time too.

Amazing how easy it to have a stable model range when it never gets updated. Eldar had it easy. Same could be said for SoB. They got like 25 years of scale creep all at once.

While Eldar still use some old sculpts, there are other parts of the range that have been updated multiple times. Scorpions, Banshees, Reapers, Avengers have all been updated several times since RT/2nd. The thing is, because Eldar also had older sculpts, the updates didn't shift too much in scale as they still had to look cohesive as an army.

I dunno, have you seen the 3E Banshees? They're not even in scale with their own Exarch.

 Nazrak wrote:

I dunno, have you seen the 3E Banshees? They're not even in scale with their own Exarch.

Well I've certainly seen them, but not for a long while. Is that the Exarch leaping off a rock? It's true that scale varied a bit when the models were still hand sculpted, I can't deny that. But individual variation looks much less out of place than and entire squad that is conspicuously larger in a very uniform way. For the Guard in particular it doesn't help that outwardly they're wearing very similar uniforms too. The Aspect Warriors do vary in size a little but their armor styling (and often poses) is also pretty varied, which helps make any scale differences less jarring.

ccs wrote:
This has been happening with GW since the 1980s.

And no, you don't have to re-buy all your stuff. You might want to, but you don't have to.

+1. GW's "Heroic" scale used to be just to differentiate it'self from the 25mm minis that proceeded it from other companies. Now their scale creep seems to be to differentiate itself from it's own past offerings.

The Black Adder wrote: I'm confident GW have got an established scale now and are sticking to it.

This is the sort of statement that makes the old guard chuckle. Just wait a decade junior. We've seen this before.

The Scale Creep stops, he just tiptoes for a while.

Nazrak wrote:Looks like the Kasrkin are marginally bigger, but I suspect that might be intentional to make the lads in Carapace Armour chunkier than the regular grunts. The reggo Cadians look to be about the same as the DKoK, who are pretty consistent with 40K "human-scale'" since the advent of the AdMech range, back whenever that was.

Tbh, Citadel have massively improved on scale in recent years – everything's loads more consistent, and better relative to the other ranges, than it used to me.

Spoiler:

I think the picture you posted just disproves your point as there are at least 2 distinct scales shown for Marines and IG.
Also that's alot more than "marginally bigger".

ccs wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Putting the Primaris aside as they are actually intended to be larger.

The inherent problem with the old minis is that they were far from proportional. This means that if an artist wants to make the new sculpts proportional they can either make the mini larger or too fine(and therefore more fragile). I imagine GW thought it would be better overall to make them larger because: Sturdier, more fun to paint, looks better. The other inherent problem is that a lot of the old sculpts were done by hand by people who weren't as skilled as they are now. So I imagine that they wanted to improve on the old design(which I think they did). .

If there's any "inherent problem" it lies with the specific artist hired & whomever approved thier work.
Because theirs many artists & companies (including GW on occasion) who have no problem producing properly proportioned figures in x scale - without being too fine/fragile.

I recommend checking out Batman Miniature Game or even Idoneth. Stuff so fine that you can break it just by looking at it. So there is some variation to fragility.

There is also another option that probably fits the more capitalistic hellscape explanation. By making Imperial Guard a little larger GW will differentiate them from 3rd Party developers, especially those who make WW2 models en masse.

Personally I just like the slightly larger models for painting and display, and I have a ton of metal Sisters of Battle mixed with Plastic(there is a very visual size difference).

 Eilif wrote:

The Black Adder wrote: I'm confident GW have got an established scale now and are sticking to it.

This is the sort of statement that makes the old guard chuckle. Just wait a decade junior. We've seen this before.

I think you may have wildly misjudged just how long I've been playing GW games.

Now that GW have so many digital assets there's not really any need to make the models bigger again. The skitarii were released in 2015 and I've not seen any change since then. Heck the guardian models that have recently been replaced appear to be a dead match for the old set and that box must be 20 years old.

Tyel wrote:
The old Cadians are very small - so in some ways if the comparison pictures are right, I'm surprised nu-Guard aren't quite a bit bigger.

They can't be much bigger if you don't want to think every cadian is over 7 feet tall


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarsif wrote:
There is also another option that probably fits the more capitalistic hellscape explanation. By making Imperial Guard a little larger GW will differentiate them from 3rd Party developers, especially those who make WW2 models en masse.
.

So they will make them bigger.

GW tried renaming stuff. Didn't work.

GW tried making weird connection points for part. Didn't work.

Only way GW can stop 3rd party developers is become too small market for them to bother.

I’m not sure that latter bit follows.

Renaming was to get a copyrightable name in play. That in itself only prevents other companies using the same name - not producing equivalent models.

Weird Connection Points and Different Sizes only means third party bits need to be sculpted specifically. You can trademark a kit’s layout or connection points.

What we have seen are GW either providing all a unit’s options in the core kit (Cadians, Kasrkin) or limiting a unit to what already exists on the sprue.

Even then….that doesn’t stop 3rd Party folk designing and selling alternative parts. It might reduce demand sure. But either way, GW still get their sale, and that’s all they ultimately need to worry about. GW don’t sell Bitz, so folk going elsewhere doesn’t impact them.

Also a lot of the "strange connection points" isn't anything to do with trying to stop 3rd party parts; its more about GW shifting from very static poses to very dynamic poses whilst still working with injection moulded plastic casting. That requires them to shift things around to get the parts to work because of undercuts and such.


Also I've noticed they've improved at hiding join lines on models. It's not perfect, but there are a good few models now where the join lines are invisible once the model is put together.

It's because GW is sculpting digitally so they can do those more complex cuts. It's not like when they had a master model that they had to physically cut into the make the parts for casting from where you can't just cut a super creative line here and there.
Heck I wish the 3D printing market would take a leaf from GW and treat part cutting more seriously