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 Olthannon wrote:
Given this is "The Old World" (even though we all know it's just WFB 2) I'd be interested to see what they do with Lizardmen to separate them from AoS. Maybe they could make them Southlands specific and give them a different flavour.

Do they have to?
Like, the ones in AoS are explicitly the same species from WFB, down to some individuals being the same survivors of the destruction of the old world, not some half-mad godling’s recreation based on a dream of a memory.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Given this is "The Old World" (even though we all know it's just WFB 2) I'd be interested to see what they do with Lizardmen to separate them from AoS. Maybe they could make them Southlands specific and give them a different flavour.

Do they have to?
Like, the ones in AoS are explicitly the same species from WFB, down to some individuals being the same survivors of the destruction of the old world, not some half-mad godling’s recreation based on a dream of a memory.

They could do the same thing they do with daemons, they're linked through some shared meta-reality by the warp, but are not necessary the same individuals from the same universe.

Some food for thought on the subject of scaling for the new miniatures.

TWO Bretonnia



AoS Dawnbringer Crusades

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Given this is "The Old World" (even though we all know it's just WFB 2) I'd be interested to see what they do with Lizardmen to separate them from AoS. Maybe they could make them Southlands specific and give them a different flavour.

Do they have to?
Like, the ones in AoS are explicitly the same species from WFB, down to some individuals being the same survivors of the destruction of the old world, not some half-mad godling’s recreation based on a dream of a memory.

Does anyone have to do anything?

In the lore, they describe the Southlands Lizardmen as different but we never got the models, now is a thematic opportunity to do so.

As the owner of a rather large Tomb Kings army already (10k +) from back in the day, I'm very curious to see what they gonna release and if they can tempt me into buying _more_ skeletons! I'm cautiously optimistic, those reveals look promising, but I dread the price that'll come with them. Currently I'm thinking that I might very well want to get a kit of everything new they release for my sandy bones, if only to add to the collection, but prices will be a factor too.

Very cool that they are showcasing Bretonnia too, 8th edition was close to being "complete" and these guys just missed the boat (and the boat sank anyway). Maybe the starter set will be Brets and TK, who knows! Always thought a Bret crusade in the south would have been both cool and quite fitting.

 Olthannon wrote:

Does anyone have to do anything?

In the lore, they describe the Southlands Lizardmen as different but we never got the models, now is a thematic opportunity to do so.

Only book I have handy is the 2003 one, and the only real meaningful differences are Horned Ones plus the Skink Cohorts and the 1:1 Scar-Veteran/Saurus Warrior requirement. It feels more organizational than anything else.

Was there more? Genuinely trying to figure this out.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:

Does anyone have to do anything?

In the lore, they describe the Southlands Lizardmen as different but we never got the models, now is a thematic opportunity to do so.

Only book I have handy is the 2003 one, and the only real meaningful differences are Horned Ones plus the Skink Cohorts and the 1:1 Scar-Veteran/Saurus Warrior requirement. It feels more organizational than anything else.

Was there more? Genuinely trying to figure this out.

IIRc there was more of a difference in the fluff, the actual published southlands list actually dialed it back a lot to make it playable as a variant list with existing models.

Lets say they (GW) releases the Old World by Christmas or early next year (which would make sense). Do you think that would release a Ravaging Hordes for this game on release? I mean the goal would be to get people playing right out of the gate, don't you think?

Will they give full lists/stats for all the many "warhammer" models they still sell for AOS? Would seem logical but its GW

I mean I guess they want to sell everyone all new models - even for the armies they have but getting that done at any speed with all the other stuff to be done for all the other games - seems unlikely.

We know they have a Cathay army book done and thats an auto sell to many many of us - same with a Kislev book (well i will be buying them) - will they bring it out with a Cathay and Kislev book for WFRP 4th?

I'd normally make a joke about how this is clearly a sign of the End Times, but GW already ruined the joke.

we got the little bit that all 8th Edi models will be there
so there will be some kind of Index or Hordes list, or simply just profiles in the back of the rulebook of everything that was there at the end of Warhammer

which will already be a problem as not all armies were on the same level
so some get their big centerpiece monsters but not all

what is open now is, of there will be a real Ravening Hordes book (or several) that is balanced with everything on the same level (which was the reason that made it good in 6th in the first place)
or it is just an Index like collection of profiles with the special rules adjusted for the new names and people need to wait for the army books to get kind of balanced/playable armies

both is possible

With the game likely being 9 months (earliest IMO) to 1 year and 3 months away (to fill the spot HH took in 2022 - June 2024), surprising there have been little to no leaks about anything. Where's good ole Hastings when you need them.

Considering that about half (likely more) of the player's that will pick up the Old World will already have a army ready to go. Wouldn't it be foolish to have such a large group wait for army books to come out? I think so.

These older player will drive sales if given something to work with. If they do not a Warhammer Armies/ Ravaging Hordes at the time of release of the Old World that would likely stall sales.

They will most assuredly have a Ravening Hordes style book upon release. Now it comes down to whether or not they dumb down the profiles or bring in too many bad game mechanics in the new rules.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
Considering that about half (likely more) of the player's that will pick up the Old World will already have a army ready to go. Wouldn't it be foolish to have such a large group wait for army books to come out? I think so.

These older player will drive sales if given something to work with. If they do not a Warhammer Armies/ Ravaging Hordes at the time of release of the Old World that would likely stall sales.

Then again as they have armies they aren't likely buy much of old models anyway.

The game will live and die by _new_ customers. Not old ones. GW is banging on getting new players with this. Not existing ones. Those are nice bonus to get but ultimately they are there to provide opponents for new players who do the actual purchasing.

^ The Total Warhammer games should be providing an absolute fecktonne of interest from new players. It's still crazy how WFB was killed off just before the best possible adaptation of the world (using an existing IP) was getting rolling. All time concurrent peak players is 100k+ for the third game, the install base is huge.

but surely it would have made more sense, even if the rest of the kit is plastic to make the lances from some soft of very flexible rubber?

seriously though if the starter has Bretonnia in it I'm getting it, even if its not played all that often if it means my Bretonnians who spent the last two editions wondering if they would ever see a new book are essentially playable again I'm happy

also when you think about it Bret & TK in a starter makes sense, specifically as both suit "contrast" type paint jobs reasonably well (while both also being able to look spectacular in other ways).

e.g. bone is bone, and knights are not hard to do with one colour for armour and one, maybe two for the cloth bits and a brown for the horse to look acceptable

 RustyNumber wrote:
^ The Total Warhammer games should be providing an absolute fecktonne of interest from new players. It's still crazy how WFB was killed off just before the best possible adaptation of the world (using an existing IP) was getting rolling. All time concurrent peak players is 100k+ for the third game, the install base is huge.

Assuming of course that, a majority of those computer games players aren't the old WFB players getting their fix because GW killed their game. Just a thought.

The buy-in cost and mass appeal of PC gaming is much lower/higher than TT gaming respectively. And that's before you get to the decade of players who have come of independent hobbying age since the death of WFB.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 RustyNumber wrote:
^ The Total Warhammer games should be providing an absolute fecktonne of interest from new players. It's still crazy how WFB was killed off just before the best possible adaptation of the world (using an existing IP) was getting rolling. All time concurrent peak players is 100k+ for the third game, the install base is huge.

Assuming of course that, a majority of those computer games players aren't the old WFB players getting their fix because GW killed their game. Just a thought.

Pop on reddit, you'll see TONS of posts from peope who played TW:W and were looking to get into the tabletop game. Why is it so hard for people to understand that there is simply a market and audience for this game?

It's refreshing to see something concrete for this; doubly so given it's plastics for two of the best 'lost' ranges that would appear to lean more to a modular style of kit rather than 'modern' GW's over-dramatic garbage.
*However*, exercise caution before pledging all your money and firstborn child to this game - this is still GW we're talking about. There's every possiblity that the rules will be GW-awful if they're taking anything from 8th Ed (random charges can get right in the bin, for example), and plastic models being revealed doesn't rule out the possiblity of HH (core units being left out while constant 'big' pieces get released instead) or Aeronautica/Titanicus (big initial push followed by complete neglect) treatment, both of which are also plagued by a lot of the ranges being relegated to Forge World resin.
And none of that touches on the pricing, either...precedent suggests that you won't be looking at a reasonable cash amount to put a unit together.

In short, the plastics are good news, but temper your excitement in the face of the realities of GW - and remember that there are plenty of R&F rulesets to use your WHFB models with...

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 RustyNumber wrote:
^ The Total Warhammer games should be providing an absolute fecktonne of interest from new players. It's still crazy how WFB was killed off just before the best possible adaptation of the world (using an existing IP) was getting rolling. All time concurrent peak players is 100k+ for the third game, the install base is huge.

Assuming of course that, a majority of those computer games players aren't the old WFB players getting their fix because GW killed their game. Just a thought.

A pitiful amount of in silico players would ever consider playing the game in vivo.

What, paint? Dice? Travelling to play a game? How do you do that? With a horse and buggy? On the back of a mastodon?

Am I supposed to believe the blacksmiths sculpt like modern day cartoonists? The dragon head is worrying and so are the weapon's size.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Am I supposed to believe the blacksmiths sculpt like modern day cartoonists? The dragon head is worrying and so are the weapon's size.

Why not? It's a jousting crest.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Am I supposed to believe the blacksmiths sculpt like modern day cartoonists? The dragon head is worrying and so are the weapon's size.

While the Dragon head does look a little more cartoony than what I can see on the previous models, those weren't exactly all realistic depictions either. It's meant to be a piece of elaborate stylized decoration.

And just what's wrong with the weapon size? Weapons came in all sorts of different sizes historically.

I thought the swords, at least, looked quite sensible for Warhammer. I don't get it.

The Khemri weapons look like something from a Klingon episode of DS9.

 Vermis wrote:
I thought the swords, at least, looked quite sensible for Warhammer. I don't get it.

The Khemri weapons look like something from a Klingon episode of DS9.

Gowron was one of the best parts of all star trek, so I'm suddenly much more okay with the strange khemri weapons

Because it should look like a medieval head ornament sculpted by a blacksmith, instead of a cute Pixar dragon from someone's DeviantArt page.

C'mon, GW's gotta compete with ASOIAF's aesthetic or even their own video games. The audience isn't 12 years old.

Yeah, the swords are good, the axe is kind of big and the TK weapons are ridiculous.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Am I supposed to believe the blacksmiths sculpt like modern day cartoonists? The dragon head is worrying and so are the weapon's size.

While the Dragon head does look a little more cartoony than what I can see on the previous models, those weren't exactly all realistic depictions either. It's meant to be a piece of elaborate stylized decoration.

And just what's wrong with the weapon size? Weapons came in all sorts of different sizes historically.

Also keep in mind that there's shrinkage between the CAD file and the actual end product, the CAD stuff often looks a bit more massive than a finalized cast. It's most apparent with stuff like axes or clubs, but it's a general thing - the CAD often looks a little bit too stout/chunky.