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Well, I think the answer to that depends on what GW expected the anticipated sales to be, and how far off from reality they are (and whether or not they made any contingency plans, etc.). My view is their estimates are often wrong, very wrong, and there is more demand for things than they anticipate. On that basis I would guess that sales and production off the mold are going to run higher/faster than they had planned for and the kit will end up going OOP once they can no longer continue to keep it in production, at which point I would guess they would have to scramble to get the new molds cut and into production sooner than they anticipated.

If their forecasts were reasonably accurate, on the other hand, then they might already be prepared to replace the kit (or in the process of preparing) and there may be a minimal out of stock period or no out of stock period at all when its ready to switch.

It really does depend on how many kits GW expected to sell vs how many they actually sell, and whether or not they built-in any padding in that number or have a plan on how to address the situation if they miss.

So going back to the question if that one pallet of Khemri boxes we have seen is the only one or as one of many

And there is the chance that they learned nothing from Cursed City and go radio silent for months after it sells out

Eumerin wrote:

Why did no one played Khemri in the old days despite having new modern plastic units and new centerpiece models, right because the old core models were not replaced

Because Vampire Counts rules were basically, "Like TK, but better.". And when TK got brought up to near VC level in 8th, VC then got another boost.

Because killing the guy that keeps the army together is hard against the Vampire Counts and much easier against the Tomb Kings.

Bretonnia was a French joke, down to having snails on the gorram sprues. I honestly always assumed it got dropped because it's something a British garage company might reasonably do but for a multi million pound corporation it's an embarrassment.

The names and language are certainly French (though I'm still trying to figure out how "Royarch" would actually be pronounced), but all the actually fluff is pretty much based on English Arthurian myth.

The whole faction is a Monty Python and the Holy Grail joke.

Lord Zarkov wrote:
Also a hint perhaps that HE will feature relatively soon?

Oh, I really hope not - if any faction deserves to be last, it's those pointy-eared gits.

Tyel wrote:
Horus Heresy came out 18 months ago and has about half the kits you are talking about here. So we'd be talking about a 300% faster rollout.

Everything for HH requires a new sculpt - as far as I'm aware, chaosomega's count included the old kits being rereleased, so many of those potential 70 SKUs just need a new box & assembly guide and they're good to go. Certainly, they'll need less work than a brand new kit.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Bretonnia was a French joke, down to having snails on the gorram sprues. I honestly always assumed it got dropped because it's something a British garage company might reasonably do but for a multi million pound corporation it's an embarrassment.

Going by statements in court, Bretonnia can't've been inspired by the French - GW staff create everything from the realm of pure imagination, a bit like Willy Wonka.

And why would the faction be an embarrassment, in your eyes?

Its less a French joke and more a profoundly anglicised version of what french is. Written by a bunch of guys who probably knew little to no actual french.

I mean the best example is Louen Leoncoeur. Its a direct translation of Lion Heart, when the correct way to do it in french would be Coeur de Lion.

Besides I always thought the inspiration for Bretonnia was more Angevin Empire then straight French.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Its less a French joke and more a profoundly anglicised version of what french is. Written by a bunch of guys who probably knew little to no actual french.

I mean the best example is Louen Leoncoeur. Its a direct translation of Lion Heart, when the correct way to do it in french would be Coeur de Lion.

Besides I always thought the inspiration for Bretonnia was more Angevin Empire then straight French.

There are lots of jokes about lots of nations - includign Albion, back when everyone was not over sensative. Also Leon is I believe supposed be based on Richard 1 hence Lion heart.....

ccs wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Considering the nature of the project I'm surprised so many people thought every old faction was going to get a full rule set and miniatures release.

Given that GW literally TOLD us what the plan was I'm surprised by this as well.
All these people have to do is read what GW has said. Instead they go off on wishlist tangents that only result in thier disappointment.

Likewise I've also been surprised by the # of times I've had to correct people concerning if faction xyz can be played.
Yes, I will be able to use my Skaven..... I know this because GW told me so.

Sure, you CAN.

The question being asked is, will we WANT to? Will they be even remotely competitive, or will need to play brilliantly just to pull a draw due to codex creep?

 Vulcan wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Considering the nature of the project I'm surprised so many people thought every old faction was going to get a full rule set and miniatures release.

Given that GW literally TOLD us what the plan was I'm surprised by this as well.
All these people have to do is read what GW has said. Instead they go off on wishlist tangents that only result in thier disappointment.

Likewise I've also been surprised by the # of times I've had to correct people concerning if faction xyz can be played.
Yes, I will be able to use my Skaven..... I know this because GW told me so.

Sure, you CAN.

The question being asked is, will we WANT to? Will they be even remotely competitive, or will need to play brilliantly just to pull a draw due to codex creep?

There shouldn't be codex creep at the start.

Later, maybe. But not when the game initially (re)launches.

GW already established the perfect foundation for that
Hence why we are thrilled to see what is in the journal

So... does this mean all the old actual multi-part kits are going to be re-released or put on the dread over-costed MTO?

 RedSarge wrote:
So... does this mean all the old actual multi-part kits are going to be re-released or put on the dread over-costed MTO?

I don't think they've stated all of that specifically, but that has been the implication. I would expect that at least all the sets we have seen in photos will return either as re-releases or MTOs.

Eumerin wrote:

There shouldn't be codex creep at the start.

There shouldn't be codex creep at the start.

We can take a look at what new players will be able to buy on release day for the core factions. Of course only Bretonnia and Tomb Kings will be on the official Old World page. For others one will have to search on Age of Sigmar page or go to other brands.

1. Empire: Flagellants, Wizards, Popemobil, Steam tank.
Cannot really start an army with this.

2. Dwarfs: Ironbreakers, Irondrakes, Hammerers, Longbeards, Gyrocopter, Runelord, Thane.
No warmachines and core units of shooters but you could make something expensive.

3. Wood elves: Dryads, proxy Treekin, Treeman.
If you want a pure tree army with no pointy ears than you are good.

4. High elves: nothing. Can proxy Lumineth realm-lords tough.

5. Orcs & Goblins: all Night goblin units, all spider units, all savage orc units and giant.
O&G fans could cook something up on release. Sadly no generic orcs or goblins, so thematic armies only.

6. Beastmen: all the old models are still here. Time has not passed for Beastmen since 2009 when they got their 7th ed. army book.

7. Warriors of Chaos: the entire range is here with some old, some updated and some new/proxy models. Best range for a core faction for sure. Even better than Bretonnia or TKs.

Side note: All AoS models are of course on round bases. You can either replace them with squares or leave them and make square movement trays. Put magnets beneath the bases and put them on magnetic paper cut to size and you can play both TOW and AOS!

No High Elves is the best situation for a game to be in...

 Vulcan wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Considering the nature of the project I'm surprised so many people thought every old faction was going to get a full rule set and miniatures release.

Given that GW literally TOLD us what the plan was I'm surprised by this as well.
All these people have to do is read what GW has said. Instead they go off on wishlist tangents that only result in thier disappointment.

Likewise I've also been surprised by the # of times I've had to correct people concerning if faction xyz can be played.
Yes, I will be able to use my Skaven..... I know this because GW told me so.

Sure, you CAN.

The question being asked is, will we WANT to? Will they be even remotely competitive, or will need to play brilliantly just to pull a draw due to codex creep?

Well that's given in every game. How "competitive" try-hards can go for is something you can't predict without knowing sale departments plans.

But don't worry. Gw will tell you what you need to buy to be "competitive".

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
We can take a look at what new players will be able to buy on release day for the core factions. Of course only Bretonnia and Tomb Kings will be on the official Old World page. For others one will have to search on Age of Sigmar page or go to other brands.

1. Empire: Flagellants, Wizards, Popemobil, Steam tank.
Cannot really start an army with this.

2. Dwarfs: Ironbreakers, Irondrakes, Hammerers, Longbeards, Gyrocopter, Runelord, Thane.
No warmachines and core units of shooters but you could make something expensive.

3. Wood elves: Dryads, proxy Treekin, Treeman.
If you want a pure tree army with no pointy ears than you are good.

4. High elves: nothing. Can proxy Lumineth realm-lords tough.

5. Orcs & Goblins: all Night goblin units, all spider units, all savage orc units and giant.
O&G fans could cook something up on release. Sadly no generic orcs or goblins, so thematic armies only.

6. Beastmen: all the old models are still here. Time has not passed for Beastmen since 2009 when they got their 7th ed. army book.

7. Warriors of Chaos: the entire range is here with some old, some updated and some new/proxy models. Best range for a core faction for sure. Even better than Bretonnia or TKs.

Side note: All AoS models are of course on round bases. You can either replace them with squares or leave them and make square movement trays. Put magnets beneath the bases and put them on magnetic paper cut to size and you can play both TOW and AOS!

You do know that they pulled a bunch of kitw from the Age of Sigmar range because they are going to return for The Old World, right? For example, I would expect to see Empire State Troops, classic Orcs, and actual Wood and High Elves at launch.

5. Orcs & Goblins: all Night goblin units, all spider units, all savage orc units and giant.
O&G fans could cook something up on release. Sadly no generic orcs or goblins, so thematic armies only.

To be fair I kind of expect a mix of various different units across the army, as opposed to a 1 theme only armies.
Classic orcs and goblins will probably be back.

I'm sure Grand Army lists will have all units that had models on sale in 8th, at the very least.

The idea that GW wouldn't just re-release all the kits that were discontinued for AoS, like the massive chunk of stuff that got axed for Cities of Sigmar earlier this year, is funny.

A bunch of units that will absolutely be in TOW have either been redone (Trolls, Ardboys, Chaos Warriors) or removed from the range (Empire Troops, High Elves, Wood Elves).

It's not just going to be Bretonnia and TK at launch, not when there's a pile of other kits waiting in storage.

It's going to be really interesting to see how GW walks the line between AoS and Old World considering that basically they could end up making both systems use each others entire model lines with the only diference between them being if you're playing skirmish or rank and file.

Even the base shape is honestly a bit of a strange one - GW could have gone round bases and then movement trays for Old World to make the two games entirely cross compatible.

 Overread wrote:
It's going to be really interesting to see how GW walks the line between AoS and Old World considering that basically they could end up making both systems use each others entire model lines with the only diference between them being if you're playing skirmish or rank and file.

Even the base shape is honestly a bit of a strange one - GW could have gone round bases and then movement trays for Old World to make the two games entirely cross compatible.

Given the recent CoS purge and which races get pdfs only,I suspect GW’s intent is to minimise cross compatibility where practicable.

And use of square bases is one of the main draws for the system!

 Overread wrote:
It's going to be really interesting to see how GW walks the line between AoS and Old World considering that basically they could end up making both systems use each others entire model lines with the only diference between them being if you're playing skirmish or rank and file.

Even the base shape is honestly a bit of a strange one - GW could have gone round bases and then movement trays for Old World to make the two games entirely cross compatible.

I'm not too sure how they could do it considering AoS models tend to be of quite a substantially different style and scale, they aren't quite as much Heroic scale as WHFB when it comes to proportions. The new models for Bretonnia suggest that they're trying to make things that are still in-like with the classic look and don't look too out of place.

 Overread wrote:
It's going to be really interesting to see how GW walks the line between AoS and Old World considering that basically they could end up making both systems use each others entire model lines with the only diference between them being if you're playing skirmish or rank and file.

Even the base shape is honestly a bit of a strange one - GW could have gone round bases and then movement trays for Old World to make the two games entirely cross compatible.

I mean, it's pretty obviously sales driven. Why sell one kit for two systems when you can sell a variation on the same kit twice?

I'm all in for the TK boxed set minus the crocodragon. How easy do you think that thing would be to flip by itself, or how cheaply do you think the rest of the set would go second hand?

Dysartes wrote:No High Elves is the best situation for a game to be in...

High Elves are why I got into WFB in the first place. High Elves are the first thing I look for to play as in any tabletop or video game.

 Gert wrote:
The idea that GW wouldn't just re-release all the kits that were discontinued for AoS, like the massive chunk of stuff that got axed for Cities of Sigmar earlier this year, is funny.

A bunch of units that will absolutely be in TOW have either been redone (Trolls, Ardboys, Chaos Warriors) or removed from the range (Empire Troops, High Elves, Wood Elves).

It's not just going to be Bretonnia and TK at launch, not when there's a pile of other kits waiting in storage.

GW can have hundreds of molds but they do not have hundreds of injection machines. Do you think they have capacity and time to just put in production hundreds of new kits along all the other systems already in production? No. At launch you will only have Bretonnia and TKs sadly. They even say so in the article.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It's going to be really interesting to see how GW walks the line between AoS and Old World considering that basically they could end up making both systems use each others entire model lines with the only diference between them being if you're playing skirmish or rank and file.

Even the base shape is honestly a bit of a strange one - GW could have gone round bases and then movement trays for Old World to make the two games entirely cross compatible.

I mean, it's pretty obviously sales driven. Why sell one kit for two systems when you can sell a variation on the same kit twice?

Well Gw has always been averse to crosselling across its games - I mean Daemons of Chaos are not a starting faction IIRC and yet have a full range that they could sell...

 Just Tony wrote:
I'm all in for the TK boxed set minus the crocodragon. How easy do you think that thing would be to flip by itself, or how cheaply do you think the rest of the set would go second hand?

You shouldn't have any issues selling that thing by itself as long as you manage to get your hands on the box in the first place. Many veterans already have plenty of skeletons and will be hunting for the dragon and characters.