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When are those old multi-part Goblin kits coming out?

We've not heard anything of the goblin release since the first news - and we just had a big Old World bunch of models with the Brets and TK getting updates. So I figure we'll see Goblins at best next month or the month after. Hopefully next month

There a still models for Bretonnia and Tomb Kings to be released. Casket of Souls, Bone Giant, Duke on Pegasus, Men at arms, peasant bowmen and Elisse Duchaard spring to mind. O&G seems to be at least a month away.

They spoiled them VERY early, though i imagine the Red Sea problems also mess with shipments from China and as a result with the release schedule.

Yeah I'm also eagerly waiting for the new maiden on unicorn resin model to appear for Brets.


I figure GW did want to spoil what faction(s) were next after these first two - Old World is abnormal in that its a game releasing into a mature market rather than a virgin game releasing into a fresh market. It's a little like Dystopian Wars doing the same thing in that there's already fans for set factions and they want their stuff and many already have a bunch of it and want to get going with the playing and expanding of their armies.

They are really struggling to keep stock up.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
They are really struggling to keep stock up.

it's getting rough out there. One of my groups pledged hard on Epic Warpath by mantic, the 12mm sci fi KS recently.
I went in too. Waiting to pay MSRP for imperialis has not been fun, as the webstore has been getting priority over stores.

As for Old World to stay on topic, I want to do Orcs and Goblins but players are drifting due to opponents waiting.
I'm Trying the game for the first time in 2 weeks w/ some make-shift and cobbled together warriros of chaos, but paying
$40 for conversion trays (they are round based) just to play an army I'm not favoring is impacting my frustration.
I just want to roll dice in the Old World.

Excited to play this upcoming Sunday. It will be Empire vs. Chaos. I'll take pics and let you all know how much we enjoy it. Mini battle report.

Listening to the SquareBased podcast, I've learned that taking a level 3 or 4 wizard is absolutely essential.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
Listening to the SquareBased podcast, I've learned that taking a level 3 or 4 wizard is absolutely essential.

Has that not always been the way?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
Listening to the SquareBased podcast, I've learned that taking a level 3 or 4 wizard is absolutely essential.

Has that not always been the way?

quite likely. I Only had a few games of 8th as the span of my WFB experience.

Well, there were dwarves who couldn't and still can't take wizards, and a couple other factions who could get by with only lvl1s and 2s (iirc ogres didn't often take 3s/4s), but on the whole yes a 3 or 4 was considered mandatory for most.

I can't help but feel that they've spoiled O&G far too early. There is nothing Old World related going on pre-order next weekend and we know that there are still a few TK and Bret models to be released. So we're looking at an O&G release of half april-ish at the earliest, more like to be late april early may though. At this rate it'll take more than two years to release all the armies.

Now, before anyone is going to vicously maul me again for being stupid because this is a secondary game and they have so much other stuff to release, i understand that. But i find it a bit hard to swallow how long it takes them to release this stuff. Sure, older models have had to be reworked to be released today, but they are still old models that already exist. Freshly designed stuff is sparse.

I don't care about there being so few new things, but you would think that they could speed up the release somewhat. Especially with there being no way to get GW models outside of the release armies for now. I can't imagine them sabotaging their own game, but to me it still feels that is exactly what they're doing.

You dont need special movement trays for your round bases. placing them on normal movement trays is fine.

Dwarfs dont do wizards they do runesmiths to counter wizards and have runes to auto-dispel.

JWh85 wrote:
I can't help but feel that they've spoiled O&G far too early. There is nothing Old World related going on pre-order next weekend and we know that there are still a few TK and Bret models to be released. So we're looking at an O&G release of half april-ish at the earliest, more like to be late april early may though. At this rate it'll take more than two years to release all the armies.

Now, before anyone is going to vicously maul me again for being stupid because this is a secondary game and they have so much other stuff to release, i understand that. But i find it a bit hard to swallow how long it takes them to release this stuff. Sure, older models have had to be reworked to be released today, but they are still old models that already exist. Freshly designed stuff is sparse.

I don't care about there being so few new things, but you would think that they could speed up the release somewhat. Especially with there being no way to get GW models outside of the release armies for now. I can't imagine them sabotaging their own game, but to me it still feels that is exactly what they're doing.

They've also got backlogs of NuEpic stuff to catch up with, so I think GW's just got too much of everything at the moment!

 Shakalooloo wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
I can't help but feel that they've spoiled O&G far too early. There is nothing Old World related going on pre-order next weekend and we know that there are still a few TK and Bret models to be released. So we're looking at an O&G release of half april-ish at the earliest, more like to be late april early may though. At this rate it'll take more than two years to release all the armies.

Now, before anyone is going to vicously maul me again for being stupid because this is a secondary game and they have so much other stuff to release, i understand that. But i find it a bit hard to swallow how long it takes them to release this stuff. Sure, older models have had to be reworked to be released today, but they are still old models that already exist. Freshly designed stuff is sparse.

I don't care about there being so few new things, but you would think that they could speed up the release somewhat. Especially with there being no way to get GW models outside of the release armies for now. I can't imagine them sabotaging their own game, but to me it still feels that is exactly what they're doing.

They've also got backlogs of NuEpic stuff to catch up with, so I think GW's just got too much of everything at the moment!

I know! Feels like they've bitten off more than they can chew.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
Listening to the SquareBased podcast, I've learned that taking a level 3 or 4 wizard is absolutely essential.

Has that not always been the way?

quite likely. I Only had a few games of 8th as the span of my WFB experience.

It was less important in 8th because anyone could throw six dice at a Purple Sun. In 6th/7th wizards generated dice based on their level and could throw a max of Level + 1 at a spell.

It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.

New models or old is irrelevant.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.

New models or old is irrelevant.

Fair enough. But if you're already having trouble keeping up with demand, why launch a new/old game that is incredibly model-intensive? Why not wait for a bit?

In fact, they made it so model intensive themselves by announcing the release of all those old models. They could have easily split-used the plastic stone trolls or used the plastic giant instead of bringing back the marauder one. It just feels like a bunch of weird business decisions.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.
New models or old is irrelevant.

GW should know what their capacity is and what they can do and what not
so they made the decision to add 2 new games that both needs production capacity to get things done as there is no stock available to compensate like with games that already exists and just get a new Edition

if GW does not have enough production capacity to produce enough stock for 2 new games, they should not have released 2 new games at the same time but rather kept them a year or 2 apart

so someone there must have thought that releasing things now is the better option and here it gets interesting because releasing 2 new games in the back of a new 40k Edition which is a year were production is already at limits, instead of the year of the AoS Edition or the year were no mainline game gets a new Edition, would mean that they have something else that is seen as a bigger seller than LI and TOW planned for 2025

 kodos wrote:

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.
New models or old is irrelevant.

GW should know what their capacity is and what they can do and what not
so they made the decision to add 2 new games that both needs production capacity to get things done as there is no stock available to compensate like with games that already exists and just get a new Edition

if GW does not have enough production capacity to produce enough stock for 2 new games, they should not have released 2 new games at the same time but rather kept them a year or 2 apart

so someone there must have thought that releasing things now is the better option and here it gets interesting because releasing 2 new games in the back of a new 40k Edition which is a year were production is already at limits, instead of the year of the AoS Edition or the year were no mainline game gets a new Edition, would mean that they have something else that is seen as a bigger seller than LI and TOW planned for 2025

People were being impatient about old worlds release, so there was some pressure to get it out there. We know LI had some issues due to the rulebook at first printing which caused them to fall over their own feet a little and hurt that game.

Ultimately they will know how much they can make, they know it might be less than what they can sell, but they'll make enough to be happy with the returns on what they do make. Hence the happily growing profits.

I'd wager if they get more production capacity this will all ease off but the company is consistently doing better each year whilst running at below required production, they're not hurting because of this. Conversely it's a big confidence boost for their share holders if there is always stuff being released, new product to tempt sales etc. regardless if they produce enough for everyone, as long as they produce enough that will sell and balance the forecasts.

I would rather they get the information out soon than later. Dumping it just before preorders is asinine. I'd like to be able to plan my purchases with as much lead time as I can get.

What would even be better would be if they would show us a 6 month or so roadmap for what's coming for each line.

Of course, with the distribution issues they've apparently been having, I'm not sure even they know what's coming when.

Dudeface wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.
New models or old is irrelevant.

GW should know what their capacity is and what they can do and what not
so they made the decision to add 2 new games that both needs production capacity to get things done as there is no stock available to compensate like with games that already exists and just get a new Edition

if GW does not have enough production capacity to produce enough stock for 2 new games, they should not have released 2 new games at the same time but rather kept them a year or 2 apart

so someone there must have thought that releasing things now is the better option and here it gets interesting because releasing 2 new games in the back of a new 40k Edition which is a year were production is already at limits, instead of the year of the AoS Edition or the year were no mainline game gets a new Edition, would mean that they have something else that is seen as a bigger seller than LI and TOW planned for 2025

People were being impatient about old worlds release, so there was some pressure to get it out there. We know LI had some issues due to the rulebook at first printing which caused them to fall over their own feet a little and hurt that game.

Ultimately they will know how much they can make, they know it might be less than what they can sell, but they'll make enough to be happy with the returns on what they do make. Hence the happily growing profits.

I'd wager if they get more production capacity this will all ease off but the company is consistently doing better each year whilst running at below required production, they're not hurting because of this. Conversely it's a big confidence boost for their share holders if there is always stuff being released, new product to tempt sales etc. regardless if they produce enough for everyone, as long as they produce enough that will sell and balance the forecasts.

Not hurting *yet*. It will frustrate people when they can't get the stuff they want. For example, my FLGS still hasn't received most FEC models and I'm still waiting for my Ushoran. I can't really aquire any of the fw resin brets without going through some hoops and even then I am hard pressed to find the questing knight paladin.Those kind of things rankle and will eventually turn people (and LGS...my store is getting pretty miffed about all the delays and limited stock) off. It can't be a healthy mode of operations in the long run; it's just not a very sustainable business model.

Dudeface wrote:

People were being impatient about old worlds release, so there was some pressure to get it out there. We know LI had some issues due to the rulebook at first printing which caused them to fall over their own feet a little and hurt that game.

Ultimately they will know how much they can make, they know it might be less than what they can sell, but they'll make enough to be happy with the returns on what they do make. Hence the happily growing profits.

I'd wager if they get more production capacity this will all ease off but the company is consistently doing better each year whilst running at below required production, they're not hurting because of this. Conversely it's a big confidence boost for their share holders if there is always stuff being released, new product to tempt sales etc. regardless if they produce enough for everyone, as long as they produce enough that will sell and balance the forecasts.

So for LI the situation would have been much worse if the game released at the initial date because it would have been more time between the first release and supplement with the same amount of boxes available but for a longer time period

and the pressure to release TOW is there since they first announced it and them missing the window of the anniversary at the beginning of 2024 is still no good reason to release LI, TOW and 40k in the same years
what pressure was there to have LI released in 2024 instead of 2025, except someone messed up the planning 2 years ago
a fantasy side game in the year of 40k and a scifi side game in the year of AoS would have made much more sense over releasing both side games in the same year

and we don't know if this is going to hurt, as GW lives from their reputation to support games and people are rather angry at shops and other people than GW but their own marketing has build up certain expectations what "support" means and if GW cannot keep that up they it will hurt them unless they change (and if they go back into killing any game they are not able to "support" this will backfire much more than in the past)

kodos wrote:

Spoiler:

Dudeface wrote:

People were being impatient about old worlds release, so there was some pressure to get it out there. We know LI had some issues due to the rulebook at first printing which caused them to fall over their own feet a little and hurt that game.

Ultimately they will know how much they can make, they know it might be less than what they can sell, but they'll make enough to be happy with the returns on what they do make. Hence the happily growing profits.

I'd wager if they get more production capacity this will all ease off but the company is consistently doing better each year whilst running at below required production, they're not hurting because of this. Conversely it's a big confidence boost for their share holders if there is always stuff being released, new product to tempt sales etc. regardless if they produce enough for everyone, as long as they produce enough that will sell and balance the forecasts.

So for LI the situation would have been much worse if the game released at the initial date because it would have been more time between the first release and supplement with the same amount of boxes available but for a longer time period

and the pressure to release TOW is there since they first announced it and them missing the window of the anniversary at the beginning of 2024 is still no good reason to release LI, TOW and 40k in the same years
what pressure was there to have LI released in 2024 instead of 2025, except someone messed up the planning 2 years ago
a fantasy side game in the year of 40k and a scifi side game in the year of AoS would have made much more sense over releasing both side games in the same year

and we don't know if this is going to hurt, as GW lives from their reputation to support games and people are rather angry at shops and other people than GW but their own marketing has build up certain expectations what "support" means and if GW cannot keep that up they it will hurt them unless they change (and if they go back into killing any game they are not able to "support" this will backfire much more than in the past)

JWh85 wrote:

Spoiler:

Dudeface wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
It doesn't matter how much work has to be done *designing* the models if, as has been suggested, GW doesn't have enough production capacity to manufacture sufficient quantities.
New models or old is irrelevant.

GW should know what their capacity is and what they can do and what not
so they made the decision to add 2 new games that both needs production capacity to get things done as there is no stock available to compensate like with games that already exists and just get a new Edition

if GW does not have enough production capacity to produce enough stock for 2 new games, they should not have released 2 new games at the same time but rather kept them a year or 2 apart

so someone there must have thought that releasing things now is the better option and here it gets interesting because releasing 2 new games in the back of a new 40k Edition which is a year were production is already at limits, instead of the year of the AoS Edition or the year were no mainline game gets a new Edition, would mean that they have something else that is seen as a bigger seller than LI and TOW planned for 2025

People were being impatient about old worlds release, so there was some pressure to get it out there. We know LI had some issues due to the rulebook at first printing which caused them to fall over their own feet a little and hurt that game.

Ultimately they will know how much they can make, they know it might be less than what they can sell, but they'll make enough to be happy with the returns on what they do make. Hence the happily growing profits.

I'd wager if they get more production capacity this will all ease off but the company is consistently doing better each year whilst running at below required production, they're not hurting because of this. Conversely it's a big confidence boost for their share holders if there is always stuff being released, new product to tempt sales etc. regardless if they produce enough for everyone, as long as they produce enough that will sell and balance the forecasts.

Not hurting *yet*. It will frustrate people when they can't get the stuff they want. For example, my FLGS still hasn't received most FEC models and I'm still waiting for my Ushoran. I can't really aquire any of the fw resin brets without going through some hoops and even then I am hard pressed to find the questing knight paladin.Those kind of things rankle and will eventually turn people (and LGS...my store is getting pretty miffed about all the delays and limited stock) off. It can't be a healthy mode of operations in the long run; it's just not a very sustainable business model.

Applying some logic, it's not nice for us as consumers or for those who are frustrated, but this is still fine. The people annoyed they can't get into a game maybe won't, but the point is those who did are still likely to pick up the supporting products and subsequent releases.

In the short term there is annoyance because people are desperate to buy product, some of that will be self inflicted via scarcity, wanting it because it isn't there. Otherwise it shows a hunger for those games and irrespective if those people stopped, they sold enough to be happy with their recoup.

GW is in a lovely spot now in that regard, again it sucks for us, but for their bean counters this is pure luxury.

TOW probably had to be released now, despite problems with capacity, because a bean counter decided it had been in development long enough and needed to start making some money back.

Sometimes a bad launch is thought to be better than no launch at all. Even if it's just cutting their losses and releasing what they have.

of course it is good for GW, and if they are just focusing on the best way to make more money quickly, we are going to see a 2nd Edition at the end of the year that replaces the current rulebook for an updated one (better written as per request with enough changes to make the current one obsolete) and the forces book with army books, giving a hint that they can better keep up with demand that way and people will cheer for it

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
TOW probably had to be released now, despite problems with capacity, because a bean counter decided it had been in development long enough and needed to start making some money back.

Sometimes a bad launch is thought to be better than no launch at all. Even if it's just cutting their losses and releasing what they have.

If I had £1 for every time someone wrongly ascribed a decision that's made by management to being made by bean counters...... I could afford at least another half dozen GW armies

 Baragash wrote:
If I had £1 for every time someone wrongly ascribed a decision that's made by management to being made by bean counters...... I could afford at least another half dozen GW armies

IMO management *are* the bean counters in the upper echelons of the company who make the final decisions. They're the people who decide how much time and money can be spent on XYZ project, what has been in development long enough, what should be cancelled, etc. etc.

Wonder what the preview will be at Adepticon next week? Probably Dwarves...

Thats not even a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. The modern corporate standard is that the Finance department (i.e. bean counters) basically runs the business. They are the ones that give executive leadership their best advice on a coming year and the associated financial forecasts, which is then typically either slightly adjusted or rubber stamped to achieve the executives vision and goals. Then that becomes a budget, which then flows down through the organization in terms of how many people are to be employed by the organization, how much they get paid, how much overtime they can work how much material they can purchase and how much labor they can bill to a charge code, etc. etc. etc. A project is budgeted, its expenditures tracked and measured (i.e. the beans counted), and that data is used to dictate and determine how the business proceeds. Of course, "management" will get a say, but often managements decisions are filtered through the realm of finance - "this project is over budget and behind schedule" is what "management" is informed of. Managements job is then to determine how to move forward with that project that puts it back on schedule and recovers budget - like launching something early or modifying its scope to be less of a resource drain, etc.

Bean counters and management are pretty much synonymous, they are an intertwined, interlinked, multi-headed hydra that exists in symbiosis with eachother.

Okay, back on topic now, this waffling has no place here..