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Vargheist wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Sudden thought occurred to me: they're releasing new models for Chaos when they haven't finished re-releasing all the old ones yet; where are my Forsaken?

Truly living up to their name

 Overread wrote:
Heck first GW boxed set I got had a cardboard gargant in it. 100% fully "legit model for the table"


But yeah ultimately getting new stuff comes from a few drives

1) It looks better
2) The style is different and more appealing
3) It's the only thing sold now and OOP ones cost even more/are very hard to source new
4) The desire to keep building the army is still there
5) Desire to support the current army
6) Enjoy building/painting stuff not just playing etc..


IT can be any one or more of those and more reasons too. There is some old stuff that really stands the test of time well and there is some that doesn't. Heck even now there's a few models I can think of that I'd really like to see GW replace because since they've done them their talent and also style (not always the same thing) has grown and I think they'd do a way better job now.


Also note some talent isn't at the sculpting level alone; better parting and tooling means creatives can do designs today that were unthinkable 20 years ago.

There are some gamist reasons that also come into play that gw has been exploiting more often these days.

They make a new version of a similar or same unit that has better rules, options or game play. They get you to buy it because it's not just a refresh so there is more than an aesthetic incentive.

This might also be coupled with making the original units rules less interesting or useful.


TOW hasn't reached this point yet, so the marauders weren't effected. You see this mainly with 40k marines and guard regiments getting updates with different equipment to the og (original marines or fw guard) that don't make the old ones compatible with the new unit profile.

I expect we'll start to see this further down the line when they redo say empire with province specific regiments, making it harder to use their generic spearmen et al.

Vargheist wrote:
New Marauders confirmed to be on 30mm bases

Well, this kinda is annoying for those having old ones...

Not sure how i feel about that tbh.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Vargheist wrote:
New Marauders confirmed to be on 30mm bases

Well, this kinda is annoying for those having old ones...

Not sure how i feel about that tbh.

It makes sense if they were universally upgrading all bases by 5mm. But the lack of dialogue on why they didn't do it for mauraders originally is the problem. If thed just said it was an error and they should be 30mm I think it would have kept people understanding

I am wondering if this is now going to be retconned to make changes to the existing WoC lists. If it does, it means any of the WoC characters on foot will be able to fit in any of the Marauder units. If it doesn't retcon, then I have no idea. Maybe Norscan marauders are just beefier.

Or best possible, they become 25-30mm. We've seen it on individual character mounts (Daemonic Mount, 40x60 or 50x75) and monster (Treeman, 50x50 or 75x50) models so far, and not a unit, but there is at least some precident for options in base size.

Most disappointing preview for me in a long time. More Cathay were to be expected, but personally i could not care less about them. The models are fine i guess, but not really exciting. Dare i say a bit boring even. It's also the third book about Cathay in the past four books.


Come one...there are nine armies that could use a little refresh GW. From the top of my head, Stone and river trolls, hippogryphs, war wagons and chaos dragons don't even currently have miniatures (though trolls had a MTO and are easy to find in AOS and the War Wagon had a MTO).

Enough with the balloon maniacs already. The game was fairly well balanced until Cathay showed up. What the army still lacked was cheap infantry, some more long ranged weapons apart from the rediculous Cannons and they lacked in magic.

I'm sure this boost is just what this already incredibly strong army needed.

The marauder preview on a random monday was more exciting to me than this.

Like these new minis, but there seems to be an awful lot of duplicate in the gunners. Wondering if they are resins....

But yeah, other armies really need more love, especially the non-human ones. I dont think they released a new plastic kit for any of the non human armies, bar the tk bone dragon (the reavers are only a recut i think)

Hopefully they take a break of Cathay after this. I was hoping they would do wave 1 of Cathay then Kislev to get people started with those armies, then circle back around to them both over time so people don't get fatigued.

A new Grand Cathay Army List that replaces the original* is included, alongside a new Army of Infamy
[...]
* You’ll still need Arcane Journal: Grand Cathay for the existing unit profiles and enhancements within, but Army Construction changes based on the new units in the new journal.

yeah, call me again after the 3rd wave were all rules are combined into one book again

If I was into Cathay. I’d be happy. New infantry and generic character kits are awesome to wait for and get.
But Cathay doesn’t fit in TOW for me, and I just don’t like the aesthetic, so I’m just very glad ToW keeps getting attention and whole big brand new kits!

Hope Norsca gets their mammoth one day
Also, I’d be way more pumped for return of Savage orcs and new taste of goblins- of the forest variety. Dedicated Arcane journal for those two AoI maybe

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
If I was into Cathay. I’d be happy. New infantry and generic character kits are awesome to wait for and get.
But Cathay doesn’t fit in TOW for me, and I just don’t like the aesthetic, so I’m just very glad ToW keeps getting attention and whole big brand new kits!

Hope Norsca gets their mammoth one day
Also, I’d be way more pumped for return of Savage orcs and new taste of goblins- of the forest variety. Dedicated Arcane journal for those two AoI maybe

I hope for three things really.
Plastic skinwolves, plastic mamooth and plastic chaos trolls, aswell as throgg but throgg is a chaos troll soo

Not Online!!! wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
If I was into Cathay. I’d be happy. New infantry and generic character kits are awesome to wait for and get.
But Cathay doesn’t fit in TOW for me, and I just don’t like the aesthetic, so I’m just very glad ToW keeps getting attention and whole big brand new kits!

Hope Norsca gets their mammoth one day
Also, I’d be way more pumped for return of Savage orcs and new taste of goblins- of the forest variety. Dedicated Arcane journal for those two AoI maybe

I hope for three things really.
Plastic skinwolves, plastic mamooth and plastic chaos trolls, aswell as throgg but throgg is a chaos troll soo

Chaos ogres and dragon ogres as well please.. and I think everything chaos undecided is covered
But I like resin skinwolves tbh, I fear “plastification”can cause problem quality of sculpt wise

 Thargrim wrote:
Hopefully they take a break of Cathay after this. I was hoping they would do wave 1 of Cathay then Kislev to get people started with those armies, then circle back around to them both over time so people don't get fatigued.

I suspect we won't be seeing any new Cathay stuff for quite a while, except maybe a dragon sibling or two. The only really significant things missing from the TW version of their roster are Longma riders, Onyx Crowmen, the Jade/Jet Lion and the War Compass.

Kislev is likely their big release for 2026, although after the marauders I'm more intrigued by what stuff comes for the other factions.

Also put me down as another that just wants Warhammer Armies books back, rather than this flood of Arcane Journals.

Cathay needed a big chunky release not just to cement GW's attitude to the game but also because all the other established armies are full roster forces. Yes they've loads of old models ripe for replacement (like the recent Chaos Marauder updates) but they are big diverse factions.

Cathay getting several chunky releases to bring them in line is a good healthy approach. We can hopefully expect the same for Kislev when its their release time.



As for the Journals they are the result of "no models no rules" coupled to GW not wanting to show their hand at what is coming in months/years time to a vibrant 3rd party market. So yeah that's what we get; you get the same in 40K, LI, AoS and other games where new chunky additions come alongside campaign or expansion books.

Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

 Mr Morden wrote:
Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

What are you expecting them to do?

Release all kits at once?
Not release a book until the final wave?
Release books with units they aren't going to announce for several months?

Yeah like it or not unless the entire 3rd party market gives up - GW are not going to put stuff into books that isn't coming out very soon.

Heck there's already several models from last nights preview being done as 3D designs right now; even by those who don't do mirror copies of GW models.

Vorian wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

What are you expecting them to do?

Release all kits at once?
Not release a book until the final wave?
Release books with units they aren't going to announce for several months?

Free PDF downloads.

If printed publications are big part of their business model which I suspect they are - be unlikely switching to that model anytime soon.

Could be wrong because of the frequency of changes in 40K and how the tourney group might force change but that’s the only shot imo.

GW's book situation is insane and I hate it. That being said, they are available as free PDFs. I haven't paid for a single TOW book, yet own all of them.

And I don't feel bad about crowing over it, not just because it's the evolved thing to do, but free PDFs keep GW in business. If they actually had a $200-$400 book paywall to truly playing their games, that demanded renewal every 1-3 years, they wouldn't have half their player base. And that's being generous.

If people want to see what they should be doing, go buy a 4th edition WFB army book, that's what an army book looks like. They shouldn't be treating their new model releases like it's breaking news, "Oh my God, Cathay peasants are here, who could have guessed, buy our latest book to read all about it!" Just a good product at a reasonable price has gotten a lot of businesses very far in this world.

P.S. Also, I think we can all agree that GW trying to keep Cathay releases close to the vest and refusing to put out rules for models that aren't out yet is rather silly given that Total War Warhammer came out three years ago and gave away literally everything. Not to mention if their approach is so successful, then why are 3rd party producers still around?

It's not about wiping out 3rd party producers or even knowing what's coming.

If they had a book with, say, peasants out 6, 7 or 8 months before you could buy them from GW then people wanting to put those things into their army have the only option of getting them somewhere else.

If there is no option in the army list then there is no need to go looking until GW are ready to release them - even if we all know peasants are coming because they were in WTW

On army books, yes it's trivially easy to pirate them or just get the rules online, but they have a customer base that buys the books. It's profitable for them to continue to release them so they aren't going to stop.

Vorian wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

What are you expecting them to do?

Release all kits at once?
Not release a book until the final wave?
Release books with units they aren't going to announce for several months?

Several of the Arcane journals had very little unit rules and were mostly (although still limited) lore and army compositions - these could have been combined - the journals could also have the rules for ALL relevant units in their books - there was plenty of room and this would reduce the need for carrying a book for one profile etc

I think its nice to see Cathay expanded.
Great models all around.
I have no idea how popular they are, but sounds like a good idea to ad some basic infantry for optional armybuilds.

Vorian wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

What are you expecting them to do?

Release all kits at once?
Not release a book until the final wave?
Release books with units they aren't going to announce for several months?

Any of the above would be good.

One army, one book, at the very least, whichever way they choose to go with the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah like it or not unless the entire 3rd party market gives up - GW are not going to put stuff into books that isn't coming out very soon.

Heck there's already several models from last nights preview being done as 3D designs right now; even by those who don't do mirror copies of GW models.

It doesn't really matter if they have the minis ready or not, nowadays there will be STL proxies either way, on day 1. Day -X, really.

And people still buy the plastics.

I think the previews were great for fantasy miniatures in general. There are a couple of extra units I'd like to see added to Cathay to round out the roster but this set of minis does a good job of bulking out the force.

I'm surprised at the direction of travel for the narrative. You would have hoped the Miao Ying would have done more to fulfil her duty to protect the bastion before disappearing half way around the world to rectify what she saw as the elves failing to do 'their job'. I'm happy that we're getting a few more flaws in the visage of perfection that is the portrayal of Cathay (save for the Shamiya Incident). I'm getting the feeling that although there's a tendency in fantasy to credit the elves with arrogance, we're seeing it distilled and made manifest in the children of Dragon Emperor.

I'm not sure I want or need most the models from this second wave, except the astromancers, but we'll see what the ranged units and peasants add to the dynamic of the army. Maybe they'll be a nice way to add some shooting that isn't OTT in the way that balloons can be.

Personally I'm more excited about the other fantasy models previewed which are all billed as being for the Aos range. I'm really hoping that the Sloven Knights and Rotswords fit on appropriate square-ish bases so that they can be used as Nurgle marked Warriors of Chaos units. Pop them in a force with the new marauders or the Pox Wretches from the Warhammer Quest (which they note will be getting a separate release) set and you've got one fantastic looking army.

 Albertorius wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Models are awesome but the splitting up of the rules across small and often half full paged Journals is not good at all - How many books will you need for a Cathay army now...

What are you expecting them to do?

Release all kits at once?
Not release a book until the final wave?
Release books with units they aren't going to announce for several months?

Any of the above would be good.

One army, one book, at the very least, whichever way they choose to go with the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah like it or not unless the entire 3rd party market gives up - GW are not going to put stuff into books that isn't coming out very soon.

Heck there's already several models from last nights preview being done as 3D designs right now; even by those who don't do mirror copies of GW models.

It doesn't really matter if they have the minis ready or not, nowadays there will be STL proxies either way, on day 1. Day -X, really.

And people still buy the plastics.

They won't release above a certain number of kits at once because it will exceed what the average player will order in one go and they will make fewer sales.

They won't release miniatures without a book because people won't buy the miniatures without rules and they'll make fewer sales.

They won't release a book with units in that they don't currently have for sale because people will be left with only 3rd party options and will have bought them before the official ones are released, so they'd make fewer sales.

They won't pack the rules into every book because people will hate buying repeat material more than they even hate buying army lists across books.

We're left with what they do, which is annoying for players who just want the army list to play the game, but they will obviously do what they need to in order to sell as much as they can.

Are their any new novels featuring Cathay due out any time soon?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Are their any new novels featuring Cathay due out any time soon?

Sadly only one novel for Old World so far - no signs of any more

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Are their any new novels featuring Cathay due out any time soon?

Sadly only one novel for Old World so far - no signs of any more

That really sucks.

I've been rereading a bunch of the old Warhammer novels lately like the C.L. Warner Witchhunter novels and was really hoping to read some stuff on Cathay.