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I'm sure you all are aware of the battleforces that just dropped for Marines and how strange it is that they both featured artwork rather than just pictures of the models. I, personally, have been unable to find evidence of the Raven Guard artwork elsewhere.

Having picked up the box yesterday, it perked my interest up again noticing this:


There's a Veteran(or possibly Lieutenant) with Lightning Claws and Phobos armor. No grav-chute, no jump-pack, nothing special beyond twin lightning claws.

It isn't Shrike either as the company colors are wrong for the shoulders and it's not a Reiver as the helmet is wrong.

Am I crazy for thinking that there's a Lieutenant in Phobos Armor kit coming, ala the Autarch kit with new options? That maybe there's going to be an alteration to Reivers? Maybe Incursors(which is what the focus of the box art is) are getting more options?

Those lightning claws are an endless tease.

I enjoy that they continue to use the firstborn aircraft though in these art pieces which is odd.

Both the Raven Guard and Imperial Fists battleforce boxes are generally bizarre outliers. I've been of the opinion that neither box was originally intended to be part of the holiday lineup and were repurposed from another intended release slot, etc. Been wondering when we might see more detail on what they may have originally been linked to.

Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

We can only hope. My White Scars need some crusade rules. If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

The Black Adder wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

We can only hope. My White Scars need some crusade rules. If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

Who cares about Crusade rules? If GW refuses to do consolidation, might as well give every Chapter an equivalent of Relic Bearers. That's all I'd care about.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

We can only hope. My White Scars need some crusade rules. If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

Who cares about Crusade rules?

Obviously people playing Crusade.

The Black Adder wrote:
If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

I think they'd be boxes that use existing models that mirror the two new ones we just got, so a White Scar one is likely to have the single White Scar Primaris model, and probably some Outriders/ATVs and Assault Intercessors.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

We can only hope. My White Scars need some crusade rules. If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

Who cares about Crusade rules? If GW refuses to do consolidation, might as well give every Chapter an equivalent of Relic Bearers. That's all I'd care about.

Those(quite a few) that play crusade?

Believe it or not not everybody shares your super narrow view of how to play 40k. There's bigger world outside if you just could be bothered to open your eyes and look.

It is not the dominant way to play though and in a case , GW own words, of time schedul problems and limited staff, trying to do multiple games means less focus and less tight rules.
AoS team knows how the game it is played , and while the game is still a GW game with its GW specific problems it is in a much better state then w40k. Horus Heresy is in a better state, then w40k is. And it is a side game. Alocating time and manpower to game play system, which at its core has people who want to rewrite and write rules themselfs, is a waste of time.

I can't imagine that the time thatd be "wasted" on Crusade content for a force would be significant.

It's a handful of equipment options, and eight 6 item charts for rewards/damage for units (characters, vehicles, monsters, all others). And most of those rewards/damage charts are pretty similar effect wise across all Codices. So a bit of copy/paste from the base SM dex & then tweak a few.
I've written more in depth stuff over a 30m lunch break.....

The Black Adder wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe there's truth the idea that all the 8th Ed Marine supplements are being redone, and that each Chapter (or some of them, at least) would get a box to go alongside them.

We can only hope. My White Scars need some crusade rules. If it comes with a primaris lieutenant or captain on bike, so much the better.

My instinct is that if these two boxes are being released as holiday battleforces without nary a mention of a supplement to accompany them, etc. then whatever plans to do supplements + boxes were abandoned and these boxes were simply the leftovers from an initial production run that was initiated before management pulled the plug.

I've been wondering if they're going to just put all of the Founding Legion supplements(barring the Usual Suspects) together into a single book. Set them up as an "optional" thing, maybe with an Army of Renown and some special characters/loadouts each?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I've been wondering if they're going to just put all of the Founding Legion supplements(barring the Usual Suspects) together into a single book. Set them up as an "optional" thing, maybe with an Army of Renown and some special characters/loadouts each?

I wonder how the 30k volumes are doing for GW? Codex plus supplements all in one massive volume. Could that be a test for 40k?

Sure, a chunk of it is useless for mono-subfaction players, but you have the rules to entice you if you want to branch out to an ally force…

I think a book that consolidates Ultramarines, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, Imperial/Crimson Fists, and Salamanders into one book.

I mean if they're not going to significantly expand the model ranges for these Chapters - and I don't think they should - then put 'em all in the same book.

Yes, it does mean that it's a book full of mostly special characters, but better that than 6 expensive hardbacks that don't even work on their own.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a book that consolidates Ultramarines, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, Imperial/Crimson Fists, and Salamanders into one book.

I mean if they're not going to significantly expand the model ranges for these Chapters - and I don't think they should - then put 'em all in the same book.

Yes, it does mean that it's a book full of mostly special characters, but better that than 6 expensive hardbacks that don't even work on their own.

I'd much rather they wen't back to the main Marine book being enough to represent UM, IF etc, so I don't have to buy a supplement to be competetive. In theory I can just use the main SM book, but the Super Doctrines are too good to ignore.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a book that consolidates Ultramarines, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, Imperial/Crimson Fists, and Salamanders into one book.

I mean if they're not going to significantly expand the model ranges for these Chapters - and I don't think they should - then put 'em all in the same book.

Yes, it does mean that it's a book full of mostly special characters, but better that than 6 expensive hardbacks that don't even work on their own.

OR we just consolidate them into one Codex because ANGRY Marines and Honour Guard that have jump packs isn't enough to create a whole new codex.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a book that consolidates Ultramarines, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, Imperial/Crimson Fists, and Salamanders into one book.

I mean if they're not going to significantly expand the model ranges for these Chapters - and I don't think they should - then put 'em all in the same book.

Yes, it does mean that it's a book full of mostly special characters, but better that than 6 expensive hardbacks that don't even work on their own.

OR we just consolidate them into one Codex because ANGRY Marines and Honour Guard that have jump packs isn't enough to create a whole new codex.

Good job your opinion doesn't count, really.

+ + +

I didn't pick up any of that first batch of SM Supplements - how was the background material in there?

Raven Guard had some interesting tidbits. They maintain dedicated Phobos veterans in the First Company and Shrike is considering the same for the Second.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Raven Guard had some interesting tidbits. They maintain dedicated Phobos veterans in the First Company and Shrike is considering the same for the Second.

Can't wait for that to be boiled down to a 1 CP before-game Stratagem that gives one unit of Phobos Marines +1A or something equally as mundane.