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Neat.

so no non-Games Workshop plastic miniatures or other plastic items please

Lol, I expected that. Ah well, some mini producers do adulterate their products with stuff like *choke* PVC.

Regarding home recycling, I know that home and council site recycling in the UK (this part at least) can't do a thing with expanded polystyrene. I assume the same is true for the denser stuff in GW sprues?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They don’t exactly produce much in metal these days.

Aren’t the “Made to Order” series they’ve been doing lately made of metal? If so, seems like they could take in old metals to melt down for that process.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They don’t exactly produce much in metal these days.

Aren’t the “Made to Order” series they’ve been doing lately made of metal? If so, seems like they could take in old metals to melt down for that process.

Taking in old metals is a bad idea because you invariably will get some lead mixed in, either from recasts or from really old models / people putting whatever in there and just not knowing any better, and once you got a lead-contaminated workplace there's all sorts of safety and environmental hoops you'll have to jump through to get cleared again. While it's perfectly save to have around unless you're inhaling lots of e.g. dust or worse, vapour or are messing around with organic acids etc., workplace exposure guidances exist and the mere administrative overhead of making sure there's no issue can cost a lot of money. There are good reasons the whole industry went 'white metal' and basically lead-free in the late 80s/early 90s outside of some traditionalists still using it for traditions sake or to preserve historical techniques.

Shame my local GW isn't on the trial list, I'm not travelling twice as far just to drop off my old sprues. Hopefully they'll find it worthwhile and roll it out across their other stores. I've been keeping my dead sprues for years - I hate that they can't just go in the recycling bin here, I felt bad chucking them in the bin so they've been taking up cupboard space. It's surprising how different what the council will collect is in different parts of the country - my sister's always shocked how little they take when she visits, but she lives in London and they take pretty much everything.

Stranger83 wrote:
The sceptic in me says this has only come about due to the UK law changes on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) that mean if the producer of waste doesn't take the packaging back they need to pay for it being disposed of.

Still - I suppose that is the point of the law - to make companies be "green" by hitting their bottom line if they don't

Exactly. Companies only act "greener" if the opposite is monetarily penalized, it's the only strategy that really works (Everyone knows Companies only care about money at the end of the day)

 tauist wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
The sceptic in me says this has only come about due to the UK law changes on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) that mean if the producer of waste doesn't take the packaging back they need to pay for it being disposed of.

Still - I suppose that is the point of the law - to make companies be "green" by hitting their bottom line if they don't

Exactly. Companies only act "greener" if the opposite is monetarily penalized, it's the only strategy that really works (Everyone knows Companies only care about money at the end of the day)

They literally aren't paid to do anything else.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 tauist wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
The sceptic in me says this has only come about due to the UK law changes on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) that mean if the producer of waste doesn't take the packaging back they need to pay for it being disposed of.

Still - I suppose that is the point of the law - to make companies be "green" by hitting their bottom line if they don't

Exactly. Companies only act "greener" if the opposite is monetarily penalized, it's the only strategy that really works (Everyone knows Companies only care about money at the end of the day)

They literally aren't paid to do anything else.

Depending on your local legislation, it might actually be illegal for corporate leadership to do anything but ruthless profit maximization, which usually means they can be legally and financially liable for the losses or reduced profits incurred by doing more than the absolutely mandatory minimum for e.g. environmental protection.

I find it disingenuous that they wouldnt offer some form of Vouchers for the people who bring back those plastic sprue. From what i understand, they will sell it to third parties, so they are basically proposing for their customers to give back what they already paid for, with no compensation.
sprues make up a good 1/4 of any kit...they make us create waste by selling the sprues with the part.

GreenWashing at its finest.

Umm...you want them to sell just bits?-) so harder to figure what it would be for and you wouldn't pay less(more actually...not even joke. Cost would go up if they sold parts without sprue).

If you are so opposed to this don'' use it

Siegfriedfr wrote:
I find it disingenuous that they wouldnt offer some form of Vouchers for the people who bring back those plastic sprue. From what i understand, they will sell it to third parties, so they are basically proposing for their customers to give back what they already paid for, with no compensation.
sprues make up a good 1/4 of any kit...they make us create waste by selling the sprues with the part.

GreenWashing at its finest.

Well we've no idea what the scheme will cost GW to operate and run in ensuring that material is transported around, organised, sorted and then transported to the other firm. It might be that whatever GW gets from sales will simply be enough to make the scheme viable to run instead of being a big profit earner.

I mean the council also charge you to collect your waste including any recycling waste from your house and your council tax goes into supporting local recycling centres and waste disposal. So you're already willing to pay someone else to dispose of your rubbish.



That said if the scheme works who knows if GW might not introduce some kind of bonus system or rewards for those who bring in sprue to be converted.I would not expect much, but who knows

Trade in enough sprues, get a free necron army!

<insert spruecron pic here>

Yer, having seen where most recycling actually ends up (hint its the ocean) I'm not convinced by this scheme unless GW starts doing the actual recycling bit in house.

Hey who knows - GW tends to bring all things in house - they've even dabbled with the idea of buying card printing machines. Who knows if it takes off and works well, give them a few years and they might

Tsagualsa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 tauist wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
The sceptic in me says this has only come about due to the UK law changes on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) that mean if the producer of waste doesn't take the packaging back they need to pay for it being disposed of.

Still - I suppose that is the point of the law - to make companies be "green" by hitting their bottom line if they don't

Exactly. Companies only act "greener" if the opposite is monetarily penalized, it's the only strategy that really works (Everyone knows Companies only care about money at the end of the day)

They literally aren't paid to do anything else.

Depending on your local legislation, it might actually be illegal for corporate leadership to do anything but ruthless profit maximization, which usually means they can be legally and financially liable for the losses or reduced profits incurred by doing more than the absolutely mandatory minimum for e.g. environmental protection.

I'm curious where this idea comes from, as it's often regurgitated in these sorts of discussion. Got any citations? Because as someone who has both studied and run businesses, I have zero idea where it comes from.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 tauist wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
The sceptic in me says this has only come about due to the UK law changes on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) that mean if the producer of waste doesn't take the packaging back they need to pay for it being disposed of.

Still - I suppose that is the point of the law - to make companies be "green" by hitting their bottom line if they don't

Exactly. Companies only act "greener" if the opposite is monetarily penalized, it's the only strategy that really works (Everyone knows Companies only care about money at the end of the day)

They literally aren't paid to do anything else.

Depending on your local legislation, it might actually be illegal for corporate leadership to do anything but ruthless profit maximization, which usually means they can be legally and financially liable for the losses or reduced profits incurred by doing more than the absolutely mandatory minimum for e.g. environmental protection.

I'm curious where this idea comes from, as it's often regurgitated in these sorts of discussion. Got any citations? Because as someone who has both studied and run businesses, I have zero idea where it comes from.

I'm willing to bet it cycles around because some companies DO have aggressive profiting policies as their foundation/core focus.
Not because of government legislation, but because of the company policy and those running it. Of course some might also justify their high profit focus as a result of legislation, not because the legislation says "you must profit or die" but because legislation leads to increased costs of business operation which results in more pressure to earn more.

Eg health and safety or emissions or workers rights all can result in companies having to spend more; which means they need to earn more to remain afloat before you touch earning big profits for the higher ups/shareholders.

It's self interest, pure and simple.

The interested parties are senior figures in large businesses, their income will be tied to targets or they'll own (a la Tom Kirby) significant personal stakes which will pay out significant dividends if the company generates cash.

It's just curious how somehow that seems to have mutated into a legal imperative in some quarters, I know it's not a part of most of the notable western economies, I'm more intrigued if it's got a grain of truth because of some obscure Bolivian legislation or something.

This is good news.

It's also an opportunity for us as fans of the IP to be collectively smart and make it known this is why you don't spray the parts on the sprue.

I'm confident any paint on sprue plastic will cause a problem for further processing or at least add an unplanned impurity - the way they specified the purity of the material in the statement says it's an important factor in its re-use.

But maybe i'm over-thinking it.

Especially when they're also taking empty pots with paint residue, probably?

The end-product likely requires certain material properties that GW's plastic can achieve when recycled.
3rd parties "might" be possible or might not but GW doesn't know and its not worth the time to sift and sort through the various different brands on the market.

So its easier to just shut down interest in bringing other brand material in for recycling. As this process is something that GW are being paid for (even if it just covers costs of operation); it would be to their advantage to accept any and all plastics that they can. Own brand or 3rd party it would be GW reaping the reward.

So I think it really is down to having a known plastic mix with known properties to work with; over having unknowns that could weaken or render the mix unusable.


As for paint it might be that the rendering process allows them to remove any paint related impurities; or its broken down enough that it doesn't matter. They could also be splitting bottles and resin at the factory into two different processing systems.

I have worked in the plastic flexible packaging manufacturing field at one point in my life. At the company I worked for before, normally most would "add" the recycled material would at most be 10% of the core layer;
So only around 2% of virgin material is saved, but there is a ton of added cost I am sure they are looking into. When you recycle internally you know what it is, with records of where it's coming from, it's considered clean material from trim material or bad batches and just put it back in as a mixed lot. When you add returned sprues that could be from competitors or previous plastic"recipes" that are no longer used or somehow contaminated into the mix it could change the final material. Plus the cost of employees to deal with this including the logistics to get the material back to the manufacturing location will be a major factor in how this will go.
But if the government allows tax breaks or some type of incentives for companies that do this, it might be enough for them to do it even if they are losing money in the actual process.

It's absolutely self interest, drawing people back into stores when they don't have an active interest in buying something is more than useful for GW, but if it results in a reduction in plastic waste from the hobby then it's well worth it. The cynicism in this thread is disappointing, this is something that's been asked about online for years.

 Genoside07 wrote:
I have worked in the plastic flexible packaging manufacturing field at one point in my life. At the company I worked for before, normally most would "add" the recycled material would at most be 10% of the core layer;
So only around 2% of virgin material is saved, but there is a ton of added cost I am sure they are looking into. When you recycle internally you know what it is, with records of where it's coming from, it's considered clean material from trim material or bad batches and just put it back in as a mixed lot. When you add returned sprues that could be from competitors or previous plastic"recipes" that are no longer used or somehow contaminated into the mix it could change the final material. Plus the cost of employees to deal with this including the logistics to get the material back to the manufacturing location will be a major factor in how this will go.
But if the government allows tax breaks or some type of incentives for companies that do this, it might be enough for them to do it even if they are losing money in the actual process.

In theory GW can soak one part of the cost - sifting and sorting - by simply having their local shop staff sift/approve content for the recycling bins to start with.

Heck I know a few years back the GW manager at a store told me the whole upper floor was full of spare/waste sprue and materials and such. GW at the time wasn't shipping it back to them with deliveries or such. So it just piled up. I'd wager this still goes on. Promotional model sprue, returned sprue, etc... loads of sources for waste that would end up at their local stores and certainly could be gathered up. If GW use their own internal posting/delivery system then that could easily soak returning material from stores at the same time they drop off the stores weekly delivery of models.

So there's a few ways that GW can help reduce the costs on this scheme already.

I think if you stop to think about it a little deeper than 'recycling is good', then its a pretty ridiculous idea.

This isn't going to improve the environment. If anything, it makes for more pollution.
-Boxes are going to have to be printed to have in store.
-More plastic bags to sling it all in to/Transport it back in.
-More vans having to drive this rubbish back to head office.

Then you have their zero tolerance policy on what they can take. Who's going to check the mass of sprues that do come in to make sure they are all official GW? The minimum wage store worker isn't going to bother. What's going to happen to all those sprues that are not official GW that make it back to head office- chances are they are just going to end up in the regular rubbish anyway! (Though I'd get a good chuckle of the thought of someone from head office having to sneak all the mantic and warlord games sprues over their fences in the dead of night! )

What about sprues that are not easy to identify- things like sprues from the 80s that might not have the GW logo on them? (I have plenty of old Epic 40k sprues/base sprues with no GW symbols on). Are staff going to have to refuse to take sprues they can't instantly recognise?

Wasn't the reason they stated they couldn't take sprues before was due to contaminated sprues being brought in, is the store worker now going to have to check for paint/glue/other substances? Is the customer expect to stand there whilst their 'donation' is checked over?

This is another one of those schemes designed to look good, but really just pushes the plastics issue on to the consumer. Perhaps they should look at reducing the amount of single use plastic and card in other areas of their products, at least sprues have a legitimate reason to be sold as such. What about the huge amount of old stock of plastic and card that is sat outside their head office going to waste in the weather? (You can see it via drone footage online) What about the plastic wrappings on big box contents and standard boxes of models?

This is about as useful for the environment as those folks that have convinced themselves that making stuff out of trash for this hobby is saving it from going to landfill, and thus good for the planet! Its still going to end up in landfill, its just your grandkids are going to be the ones having to take it there one day!

 Nevelon wrote:
Trade in enough sprues, get a free necron army!

<insert spruecron pic here>

Your wish granted.

 RexHavoc wrote:
I think if you stop to think about it a little deeper than 'recycling is good', then its a pretty ridiculous idea.

This isn't going to improve the environment. If anything, it makes for more pollution.
-Boxes are going to have to be printed to have in store.
-More plastic bags to sling it all in to/Transport it back in.
-More vans having to drive this rubbish back to head office.

Then you have their zero tolerance policy on what they can take. Who's going to check the mass of sprues that do come in to make sure they are all official GW? The minimum wage store worker isn't going to bother. What's going to happen to all those sprues that are not official GW that make it back to head office- chances are they are just going to end up in the regular rubbish anyway! (Though I'd get a good chuckle of the thought of someone from head office having to sneak all the mantic and warlord games sprues over their fences in the dead of night! )

What about sprues that are not easy to identify- things like sprues from the 80s that might not have the GW logo on them? (I have plenty of old Epic 40k sprues/base sprues with no GW symbols on). Are staff going to have to refuse to take sprues they can't instantly recognise?

Wasn't the reason they stated they couldn't take sprues before was due to contaminated sprues being brought in, is the store worker now going to have to check for paint/glue/other substances? Is the customer expect to stand there whilst their 'donation' is checked over?

This is another one of those schemes designed to look good, but really just pushes the plastics issue on to the consumer. Perhaps they should look at reducing the amount of single use plastic and card in other areas of their products, at least sprues have a legitimate reason to be sold as such. What about the huge amount of old stock of plastic and card that is sat outside their head office going to waste in the weather? (You can see it via drone footage online) What about the plastic wrappings on big box contents and standard boxes of models?

This is about as useful for the environment as those folks that have convinced themselves that making stuff out of trash for this hobby is saving it from going to landfill, and thus good for the planet! Its still going to end up in landfill, its just your grandkids are going to be the ones having to take it there one day!

I'd point to other plastic recycling programs and yeah, it's not a good look or idea. I'd also imagine that even in a theoretical world where it's possible and easy it's still a whole lot of not much. Sprues are not a huge item, they do not compact well, and while it would be nice to say every bit counts that's just not reality.

I'd be shocked if this up as anything more than greenwashing.

 Londinium wrote:
It's absolutely self interest, drawing people back into stores when they don't have an active interest in buying something is more than useful for GW, but if it results in a reduction in plastic waste from the hobby then it's well worth it. The cynicism in this thread is disappointing, this is something that's been asked about online for years.

But now it's done by gw must be bad.

It sounds like a move in the right direction to me. There's some knowledgable posters on here* - can someone tell me what it would take to set up a business that does this for all flgs, for all plastic sprues? Could it ever be profitable?

*Some cynical ones too. Don't blame you, but it can't hurt, can it? this scheme? worth a try, maybe it's just the start of something that really works.

 PaddyMick wrote:
It sounds like a move in the right direction to me. There's some knowledgable posters on here* - can someone tell me what it would take to set up a business that does this for all flgs, for all plastic sprues? Could it ever be profitable?

*Some cynical ones too. Don't blame you, but it can't hurt, can it? this scheme? worth a try, maybe it's just the start of something that really works.

I don't think that the miniature market alone produces the volume you need to get anywhere near profitablity; the prices for recycled plastics are as follows:


LDPE Plastic Film: £195 p/t
‘Natural’ HDPE: £365 p/t
Mixed HDPE: £225
Clear PET: £160 p/t
Coloured PET: £30 p/t
Mixed polymer bottles: £97 p/t

https://blog.recycleduklimited.com/current-plastic-recycling-prices

That's per ton. Obviously these prices can shift a lot in comparatively short amounts of time, but still, you'd just need a certain minimum amount of material to make enough money to be worth the bother in the first place. Compared to the amounts that are generated in manufacturing, construction etc. miniature wargaming is probably not significant enough to sustain a dedicated firm.

 RexHavoc wrote:
I think if you stop to think about it a little deeper than 'recycling is good', then its a pretty ridiculous idea.

This isn't going to improve the environment. If anything, it makes for more pollution.
-Boxes are going to have to be printed to have in store.
-More plastic bags to sling it all in to/Transport it back in.
-More vans having to drive this rubbish back to head office.

Eh?

Boxes will be made of cardboard, which is amongst the most recyclable renewable resources and in the UK will all come from renewable sources.
There will be no additional vans, the very same vans that deliver stock into the stores will likely pick up the sprues and take them back to GW's factory in Nottingham (an advantage of being vertically integrated)
They already have staff in their stores or at their factory to sort through the sprues, any that don't match GW's standards will go into the bin - as they already do now, so no change there.
Sorting of sprues is unlikely to be overly onerous, they're not going to have random members of the public coming into GW stores and throwing away offcuts from their home rennovation project. The volumes may be high and mixed in early days as grognards throw away years of accumulated sprues but then will probably settle down to consistent levels based upon population levels near the shops/time of year.

One of the benefits of GW being so vertically integrated is that they're fairly well suited to a closed loop system of recycling their products like this.This is also why they're trialling it in the UK, which has the density of GW stores, logistics system and relatively short distances that make utilising GW's already existing infrastructure logistically and financially attractive. I doubt this system will ever be introduced in the US or Australia for instance.

Agreed, those vans are already going back and forth from GW to the store and back again. IF anything having them carry something on the return trip is improving sustainability as you're not just moving the empty van back.

And yep whilst there might be a few customers who have religiously saved boxes of sprue, most customers chuck it in the bin or recycle it themselves for other uses (SpruCron army/terrain). So I doubt the staffers at GW stores will be overwhelmed. This might indeed be part of the trial element in seeing if store staff can cope with the delivery volume and if customers can stick to GW only as a policy.

The GW staffer doesn't have to recognise every brand of sprue, just recognise modern GW sprue and toss the rest.