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 alextroy wrote:
I can't believe all this whining about the new For the Greater Good Rule. Unless you routinely brought 3 markerlights per unit in your army, you were not able to get the BS bonus for all your units. Now half your units (even more if you bring Pathfinders) can get improved BS and Ignores Cover while the other half fire as normal. Nothing bad here and we avoid all the laborious Actions and Hit rolls of prior editions. Just declare Guided Unit, Observer Unit, and Spotted Unit then get on with the dakka.

That was my take on it too. If nothing else, I feel like having a bunch of cheap spotters paired with more killy guided units is a more fluffy take than however massed markerlights were supposed to work. On paper, I like it. I also really like the fluffy strat.

I feel a little weird about the new drone rules. It's probably a better approach on the whole, but it does feel like shield drones kind of got shafted. The Kau'yon detachment rule is the part I'm the most iffy about, only because "kill things better" rules are kind of a red flag for me at this point. But in theory it only kicks in once you've lost a big chunk of your army and your opponent has had opportunities to close the gap with you, so I'm probably being overly critical.

I'm thinking Tau are going to want to use lots of Strategic Reserves and Deep Striking units. Put enough on the board to draw your opponent into the trap, then bring the Reserves in on Turn 3 for a Kauyon Strike. Bring lots of high volume attacks to maximize the impact of Sustained Fire 2 for Guided units.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm thinking Tau are going to want to use lots of Strategic Reserves and Deep Striking units. Put enough on the board to draw your opponent into the trap, then bring the Reserves in on Turn 3 for a Kauyon Strike. Bring lots of high volume attacks to maximize the impact of Sustained Fire 2 for Guided units.

There's always the possibility that they just kill you the first two turns and then kill you SUPER HARD on turn 3.

Two units of pathfinders or fire warriors in devilfish whizz up the board, disembark, and now you have 4 observer units (potentially on objectives, and they're screening) for your crisis suits, broadsides, hammerheads, etc.

Looks pretty solid to me on paper.

I can see Crisis suits still holding on to flamers to ignore the penalty for splitting fire.

 alextroy wrote:
I can't believe all this whining about the new For the Greater Good Rule. Unless you routinely brought 3 markerlights per unit in your army, you were not able to get the BS bonus for all your units. Now half your units (even more if you bring Pathfinders) can get improved BS and Ignores Cover while the other half fire as normal. Nothing bad here and we avoid all the laborious Actions and Hit rolls of prior editions. Just declare Guided Unit, Observer Unit, and Spotted Unit then get on with the dakka.

To be honest it is just the Militarium Orders with a sidegrade of improved accessibility (no need for Officers) for worsened flexibility (only +1 BS no other tricks) and the added caveat that you get a random penalty if you gak it up. All in a package of a needlessly complicated rule that is really airy despite how wordy it is, so a Pathfinder unit can spot for a Hammerhead (and another unit too) from the other side of the table while brawling Angron because they have a pistol in the squad (the comms exchange must be hilarious)... It just comes off as a huge WTF rather than something exciting like the Space Marines nuking a unit per turn with infinite re-rolls.

Shas'O ER'JAK wrote:
just kill you the first two turns and then kill you SUPER HARD on turn 3.

Welcome comrade.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Two units of pathfinders or fire warriors in devilfish whizz up the board, disembark, and now you have 4 observer units (potentially on objectives, and they're screening) for your crisis suits, broadsides, hammerheads, etc.

Looks pretty solid to me on paper.

I can see Crisis suits still holding on to flamers to ignore the penalty for splitting fire.

Agree with the sentiment and that works, but to optimise I would be looking for even cheaper units than that. Using 9th points, a Devilfish is 95 and Breachers 85. I'm looking at Kroot Hounds (24), Krootox Riders (25), Stealth suits (75), Pathfinders (90 but do double duty and I'll be looking for any other units that can double up), Piranhas (60), Vespid (60).

I think they'll feel quite elven in some ways with so many little trash units Observing and briefly holding objectives for points and standing awkwardly to block enemy movement.

I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but if any Commanders are Lone Operatives and they stay BS2, then they make perfect Observers unless they need the Ignores Cover, as they don't need the BS boost part of being Guided.

The complete lack of range on the ability is really interesting to me as well. Against a towering foe like a Knight (perhaps one armed with an 18" range insta death gun) you could have your Observer units in the far corners of the board getting true LOS visibility to the Knight, where they wouldn't have been able to shoot anyway.

I'm also waiting to see if Riptide/Broadside main guns have the HEAVY keyword. I think that stands for the kind of breathing I will be doing if they do.

EightFoldPath wrote:


The complete lack of range on the ability is really interesting to me as well. Against a towering foe like a Knight (perhaps one armed with an 18" range insta death gun) you could have your Observer units in the far corners of the board getting true LOS visibility to the Knight,

I'd half expect that to be an early FAQ if you are right - something to do with eligible targets.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Pathfinders (90 but do double duty and I'll be looking for any other units that can double up),

I would expect Tetras to double up, and possibly Firesight Marksmen.

Yeah Tau look fine. You should be able to take 5-6 decent observers without trying (stealth suits with markerlight, infantry characters that buff up fire warriors, pathfinders as double observers, etc) which should be enough to support the 5-6 200-300 point heavy hitters (tanks, ghostkeels, riptides, big crisis squads, etc).

Do people think that the vanquisher cannon will be pretty close to what we have seen for the railgun? It is basically the same thing with 1 less ap right now. Ap4 would still make it a very nice gun with those stats.

Is it possible under 10th edition to field 3x Fortification? (3x datasheet)

I want to field 3x 3 Convergence of Dominion (Necron Terrain)
Dropping 9 Starsteles killin stuff mwahaha (cackles in Necron)

 Xyxel wrote:
Is it possible under 10th edition to field 3x Fortification? (3x datasheet)

I want to field 3x 3 Convergence of Dominion (Necron Terrain)
Dropping 9 Starsteles killin stuff mwahaha (cackles in Necron)

Presumably yes, but fortifications might also change.
No guarantee it'll work the same way it does now.

1 Warlord + nothing but Fortifications.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xyxel wrote:
Is it possible under 10th edition to field 3x Fortification? (3x datasheet)

I want to field 3x 3 Convergence of Dominion (Necron Terrain)
Dropping 9 Starsteles killin stuff mwahaha (cackles in Necron)

Presumably yes, but fortifications might also change.
No guarantee it'll work the same way it does now.

And even now, there's a difference between Can In Theory and Can In General Practice. There was an article from when Fortifications first came out talking about how likely/unlikely it would be to place a Fortification at all, let one where you want it (and they didn't even bother with three) using the board layouts of the upcoming big tournament.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
1 Warlord + nothing but Fortifications.

And what do you call that act? 'The Imperial Fists'

 Trickstick wrote:
Do people think that the vanquisher cannon will be pretty close to what we have seen for the railgun? It is basically the same thing with 1 less ap right now. Ap4 would still make it a very nice gun with those stats.

If there was an edition to finally distinguish all the guns on an LRBT this one should be it - the rescaling should give enough room to make them all interesting, hopefully.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Do people think that the vanquisher cannon will be pretty close to what we have seen for the railgun? It is basically the same thing with 1 less ap right now. Ap4 would still make it a very nice gun with those stats.

If there was an edition to finally distinguish all the guns on an LRBT this one should be it - the rescaling should give enough room to make them all interesting, hopefully.

Or consolidate it down to a battlecannon turret. Either/or

Battlecannon should really have two profiles, like a missile launcher. You could have an HE blast shell, and an AP shell. Then you have the eradicator and vanquisher as more specialised guns for vehicles or infantry, the exterminator could have a minor AA buff to fit the lore, and you have plasma and demolisher doing their thing too.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
1 Warlord + nothing but Fortifications.

Guilliman in a Castellum Stronghold:

Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

I noticed that. I'm seriously hoping it's a typo and it's supposed to be Rapid Fire 3.

Even ignoring Blast, an average of 25ish shots at S10 and D3 is pretty darn spooky.

The Imperial Knight Battle Cannon is Rapid Fire d6+3 also; hard to imagine that they're both incorrect.

Just sucks that IK can't equip dual Battle/Thermal/Avengers. =(

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

"Stop stop he's already dead" - but from the leaked rules, do we know rapid fire and blast stack like that?
Wait no, 2 guns, sorry being stupid.

Yeah, just bonkers. My hatred of Knights continues even if they end up being bad due to some core rule problem.

Tyel wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

"Stop stop he's already dead" - but from the leaked rules, do we know rapid fire and blast stack like that?

Each weapon would get 6 due to unit size. Depending on timing and wording the second one may get fewer due to no longer firing at 30 boyz ofc

Yeah, forgot it was 2 guns.

I guess for sweeping judgements, hordes are dead (and they weren't exactly alive in 9th).

Dudeface wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

"Stop stop he's already dead" - but from the leaked rules, do we know rapid fire and blast stack like that?

Each weapon would get 6 due to unit size. Depending on timing and wording the second one may get fewer due to no longer firing at 30 boyz ofc

Also, it is the absolute most extreme thinkable edge case... if it really becomes that much of an issue, you'll probably not see 30 strong horde units on the field. A double-battlecannon knight is a significant part of your armies budget - deleting a gimmicky blob unit under ideal circumstances is not really impressive.

Even then it is not deleting the unit in average, killing around 18 termagants if firing at a full unit.

 Tyran wrote:
Even then it is not deleting the unit in average, killing around 18 termagants if firing at a full unit.

True. 2/3*5/6*5/6 does still mean 55% of your attacks fail to land.

Killing 5 Terminators is probably a bigger claim to fame than 18 Termagants.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Hypothetical: Twin Battlecannon Chaos Knight shooting at a 30-model Ork Boyz unit, while in Rapid Fire range (within 36") = 4d6 (avg ~14)+12+12 (blast) S10 Ap-1 3Dmg shots...

Wtf...

Well, a few things, I guess.

1) I don't think 30 man blobs are going to be a thing so your max Blast bonus will be +4. Small consolation.

2D6+6+4 = 17 * .666 * .833 = 9.4 x 2

That's a 400+ point unit ( probably 500 ) killing what is presently ~160 points.

2) The Weirdboy has a 5+ and that's probably relevant. With models joining units there's little incentive to push him up if Boyz aren't also going up. This saves ~3 models.

3) The KFF is an unknown, but if it still provides a 5++ then you'll save 6 models meaning the knight kills under 100 points.

4) The odds that you'll be able to fully revive a squad of boyz is quite high.

Dudeface wrote:
Depending on timing and wording the second one may get fewer due to no longer firing at 30 boyz ofc

Blast bonus is determined using unit size when the target is selected, so you dont lose attacks.