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tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


By my pixel counting, assuming these models are on 25mm bases, I get 7 to 7.5mm to the eyes for the Solar Auxilia, and about 7.5 to 8mm overall height. The Marines are mostly around 7.5mm to the eye and 8mm to the top of the head with some of the more upright ones being closer to 8.5mm. The Termies I get 8 to 8.3mm to the eye and up to about 9mm overall height.

Admittedly it's slightly hard to tell because the models are all viewed at a slight downward angle, so there's a bit of judgement required on where to place the limits when counting pixels. But those are the numbers I got.

That sure sounds like what most people were saying, which was that Epic would be 1/4 of 40k scale and 40k scale somewhere in the 7 to 8mm range (I tended to argue closer to 8mm because I think 40k these days is closer to 32mm than it is to 28mm, depending on how it's measured).

If marines are 8mm tall and game is 8mm then it's huge retcon to have marines 6feet tall. Ie human size.

6mm scale refers to human height after all. So you are claiming gw retconned marines be average　human height...

GW has never made Marines significantly taller than humans in actual physical models. But just have a look at the pics I posted and decide for yourself, the humans don't look 6mm to me, they look 7 to 7.5mm in the "to the eye" scale and 7.5 to 8mm in the "overall height" scale.

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


By my pixel counting, assuming these models are on 25mm bases, I get 7 to 7.5mm to the eyes for the Solar Auxilia, and about 7.5 to 8mm overall height. The Marines are mostly around 7.5mm to the eye and 8mm to the top of the head with some of the more upright ones being closer to 8.5mm. The Termies I get 8 to 8.3mm to the eye and up to about 9mm overall height.

Admittedly it's slightly hard to tell because the models are all viewed at a slight downward angle, so there's a bit of judgement required on where to place the limits when counting pixels. But those are the numbers I got.

That sure sounds like what most people were saying, which was that Epic would be 1/4 of 40k scale and 40k scale somewhere in the 7 to 8mm range (I tended to argue closer to 8mm because I think 40k these days is closer to 32mm than it is to 28mm, depending on how it's measured).

If marines are 8mm tall and game is 8mm then it's huge retcon to have marines 6feet tall. Ie human size.

6mm scale refers to human height after all. So you are claiming gw retconned marines be average　human height...

This again...

GW have claimed that AT18 and AI are about 1/4th of 40k scale. This is also something they have explicitly stated in their recent communications about this new HH Legions Imperialis game. Note that GW doesn't do consistent scales, they've never done that. 40k is all over the place. Power armoured super soldiers are something just as big or even smaller than armed civilians (Necromunda gangers). Ever tried cramming 10 Space Marines in a Rhino? Good luck!

So what does this mean? Nothing really...I think you can get away with your old Space Marine models, or go for the newer ones. It's similar to the scale creep we see in 40k generally.

look ten marines in a Rhino is easy, first step, find a suitable blender

at this scale its going to be purely down to "can you tell what it is (yet)?" coupled with, "does this make the bigger stuff look impressive".

perhaps mixed with a smidge of "does this fit the sprue count?" which I suspect will dictate the size of larger vehicles

 kodos wrote:

and there was a reason why templates with scatter dice were removed, although templates have a big advantage for such games and there are more options between "no templates at all" and "scatter dice"

Well, you don't know in which cases they're used for. In old Epic, it was limited to a specific kind of units - mostly heavy artillery with indirect fire and some specific Titan weapons. Given their size, I suspect it will be a similar limitation as well.

That's why criticizing it without knowing the full rules isn't a good argument.

 Malika2 wrote:
So what does this mean? Nothing really...I think you can get away with your old Space Marine models, or go for the newer ones. It's similar to the scale creep we see in 40k generally.

In the end people can just use whatever that want, some of us will find it irksome if half of our army is 5mm tall (like the old Marines) and others (like new Marines) that are closer to 8mm, lol.

I think my 8mm 3D printed marines will be close to these ones, maybe a hair taller, it won't make a huge difference with infantry though, it's going to be the vehicles where scale differences are more noticeable. While I have some old 3rd edition models I don't mix them with my 3D prints anyway, I loved those little models when I was a kid and have a lot of nostalgia, but they don't look right next to the modern models.

I don't know if I'll mix my 3D printed armies with these new models, depends how well they blend in I guess, but the round bases will probably be a bigger annoyance for my OCD than any slight scale difference, lol.

Probably I'll buy this box and unless I really love the rules and/or it's cheap I won't buy any more after that. Don't really feel like paying a fortune to create a plastic duplicate of armies I can (or already have) 3D printed with less effort than it is to clean the mould lines off plastics.

In the end people can just use whatever that want, some of us will find it irksome if half of our army is 5mm tall (like the old Marines) and others (like new Marines) that are closer to 8mm, lol.

Totally agree! For my own stuff I kinda work with the idea that regular humans are anywhere between 6.5mm and 7.5mm tall. Power armoured super soldiers are around 8mm / 8.5mm. But each to their own of course.

more interested in the size of the vehicles to be honest, specifically the Leman Russ

largely because I have a Leman Russ or four here and can scale other things from them

I've printed some 8mm scale Land Raiders, will stick up pics when the paint is dry, they look nice, large but nice, don't look out of place around the warhounds though

I've got 15mm scale tanks that are smaller, well its a Panzer II but it still (technically) counts

yes, quite pumped for this, just hope they do not drop the ball

I realised there's some better pics to judge the scale in the video rather than the static pics on WarCom. I tried to align the Y=0 line with the feet of the Marines that are near the middle of the base to reduce perspective errors.

The Marines that are standing upright look to be every bit of 8mm to the eye, but the ones with the splayed legs are maybe 7.5ish to the eye.

a bit of variation looks good from this side and they seem to have reasonable proportions which I think matters more than a mm or so of height

and nicely done

Have to say I’m sorely tempted by this. I’ve wanted the titans for ages, will probably take the plunge on this box and get myself the bigger titans to go alongside it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/04/small-but-perfectly-formed-a-closer-look-at-the-incredible-legions-imperialis-miniatures/

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/04/small-but-perfectly-formed-a-closer-look-at-the-incredible-legions-imperialis-miniatures/

Spoiler:

I'm disappointed they didn't take the opportunity to use a model that's in the exact same pose for that picture.

So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

 Malika2 wrote:
So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

Your second sentence asks a question that is already answered by your first sentence It's 1/4 of 40k scale, this will give you a better answer than pointlessly bickering about 1-2 mms. Space Marines in 40k have huge size differences already (especially when taking vintage models in account), i don't really get why people need to have this discussion

Are those Marines painted as Death Guard btw?


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Tsagualsa wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

Your second sentence asks a question that is already answered by your first sentence It's 1/4 of 40k scale, this will give you a better answer than pointlessly bickering about 1-2 mms. Space Marines in 40k have huge size differences already (especially when taking vintage models in account), i don't really get why people need to have this discussion

Im interested because I have loads of old Epic 40k Terrain already and it would be nice if the same terrain can be used for this or if it will look wrong.

think the discussion relates to how large, or small, 3d party models will need to be, or 3d prints scaled to in order to make them at least blend in

 Malika2 wrote:
So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

I'm not convinced they scaled those images correctly, but the new Beakie Marines are 32mm to the eye NOT including the base, I think GW bases are about 4mm, so 36mm to the eye? But the image shows the 4 Epic models being as tall as the backpack, which is probably another few mm on top of that, so perhaps 36 to 40mm overall height?

1/4 of 36 to 40mm comes out at 9mm to 10mm... but based on the other pictures we've seen I don't think they're quite that tall, I reckon it's more likely that WarCom threw that picture together in a way that isn't super accurate.


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Tsagualsa wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

Your second sentence asks a question that is already answered by your first sentence It's 1/4 of 40k scale, this will give you a better answer than pointlessly bickering about 1-2 mms. Space Marines in 40k have huge size differences already (especially when taking vintage models in account), i don't really get why people need to have this discussion

1-2mms is a big difference at this scale and quite noticeable.

i don't really get why people need to have this discussion

Why have any discussions about plastic toys at all?

But as someone who has 3D printed a bunch of "Epic scale" stuff and thus had to decide on a scale that's more meaningful than "40k divided by 4" and also as someone who has an engineering background, I simultaneously enjoy thinking about numbers, have already thought about it too much and am irked when people get things wrong

Not very scientific, but I shrunk warcom article down until the marine pretty much matched the closest based mini I had to hand (A necromunda bounty hunter)

I'm giving a little leeway as this is an old 28mm mini, and the heresy marines are bigger (And presumably on 32mm bases) so left marine bigger than the necromunda chap.

My closest to hand Epic mini was a vanguard human, and he comes about to the chest of the new marine. The new marines are about 3/4 times wider though. The vanguard mini does look like a pixie compared to the super human marine!

I'm sure someone with the actual HH mini to hand can come along soon and do a proper scale photo now. I don't have any of the larger scale stuff, so I can't match it exactly myself.

VAYASEN wrote:
Are those Marines painted as Death Guard btw?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
So a LI Space Marine is 1/4th of a regular Space Marine on a base? This might mean that the miniatures aren't 8mm, but closer to 7mm?

Your second sentence asks a question that is already answered by your first sentence It's 1/4 of 40k scale, this will give you a better answer than pointlessly bickering about 1-2 mms. Space Marines in 40k have huge size differences already (especially when taking vintage models in account), i don't really get why people need to have this discussion

Im interested because I have loads of old Epic 40k Terrain already and it would be nice if the same terrain can be used for this or if it will look wrong.

Can you not compare to the already released AT scenery?

 RexHavoc wrote:
Not very scientific, but I shrunk warcom article down until the marine pretty much matched the closest based mini I had to hand (A necromunda bounty hunter)

I'm giving a little leeway as this is an old 28mm mini, and the heresy marines are bigger (And presumably on 32mm bases) so left marine bigger than the necromunda chap.

My closest to hand Epic mini was a vanguard human, and he comes about to the chest of the new marine. The new marines are about 3/4 times wider though. The vanguard mini does look like a pixie compared to the super human marine!

I'm sure someone with the actual HH mini to hand can come along soon and do a proper scale photo now. I don't have any of the larger scale stuff, so I can't match it exactly myself.

From your post I imagine you intended to attach a picture to that?

Vanguard sell a couple of different scaled humans. Their not-DKOK are very much 6mm, so look tiny next to my 3D printed 8mm-to-the-eye Space Marines. But I think their not-Catachans are taller than their not-DKOK.

We've now entered the twilight zone of 15mm gaming, wherein the scale is 1/144 to 1/87 and infantry are anywhere from 12 to 20mm tall

VAYASEN wrote:


Im interested because I have loads of old Epic 40k Terrain already and it would be nice if the same terrain can be used for this or if it will look wrong.

In my opinion, the terrain GW sells for Adeptus Titanicus (which is now being repurposed and added to for the new Epic) is perfect for classic Epic.

In fact it's better for old Epic than it is for AT, because the Titan game needs big tall buildings to block line of sight, which gets expensive with the GW terrain. With Epic you can build lower and wider to spread over a larger area.

However, different people have different levels of tolerance for slight differences in scale, so best to get a hold of some of the AT terrain and have a look yourself.

It's funny that everyone is worrying about the new infantry possibly being out of scale with the old infantry ... while the thing that bothers me more, and has bothered me since the new Adeptus Titanicus came out, is the old infantry being correctly in scale with the new Titans. I'm used to the Epic Titans being too small. It's burned into my brain. Properly scaled Titans with infantry look wrong, wrong I tell you!!!!!

Zenithfleet wrote:
It's funny that everyone is worrying about the new infantry possibly being out of scale with the old infantry ... while the thing that bothers me more, and has bothered me since the new Adeptus Titanicus came out, is the old infantry being correctly in scale with the new Titans. I'm used to the Epic Titans being too small. It's burned into my brain. Properly scaled Titans with infantry look wrong, wrong I tell you!!!!!

GW could have used Epic to fix all the scale oddities in 40k, since the smaller scale allows for bigger variation in model sizes without becoming too big to be practical for gaming purposes.

But instead they just chose to 1/4 scale 40k


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 judgedoug wrote:
We've now entered the twilight zone of 15mm gaming, wherein the scale is 1/144 to 1/87 and infantry are anywhere from 12 to 20mm tall

What about 1/72 scale, where models exist between about 20mm and 26mm?

VAYASEN wrote:

Im interested because I have loads of old Epic 40k Terrain already and it would be nice if the same terrain can be used for this or if it will look wrong.

Oh it will work wonderfully.

I freely mix Titanicus, Epic 40,000, and Gale Force 9 Battlefield in a Box pieces together and it works great. Couple random pics to demonstrate.

edit: for GF9 I mean pieces like the pools/toxic pools, industrial storage tanks, hills, etc, seen in the third pic I've attached

The miniatures in the core box for this new game are just a thin slice of the overall Horus Heresy range, but the groundwork is now laid for many other tanks, walkers, and war machines to make the transition from full-sized to bite-sized.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

The miniatures in the core box for this new game are just a thin slice of the overall Horus Heresy range, but the groundwork is now laid for many other tanks, walkers, and war machines to make the transition from full-sized to bite-sized.

I fully expected there to be more than what's in the starter box, question is just how much more.

We will have lots of coverage of Warhammer: The Horus Heresy Legions Imperialis as we get closer to launch in August.


Does this mean launch is August or more info in Aug...when we are closer to launch.


I took it as launch in Aug but somebody told me more likely to be later?

VAYASEN wrote:
We will have lots of coverage of Warhammer: The Horus Heresy Legions Imperialis as we get closer to launch in August.


Does this mean launch is August or more info in Aug...when we are closer to launch.


I took it as launch in Aug but somebody told me more likely to be later?

The other article made clear that the game will release in August:

The game deploys in August, with a huge Core Set containing a massive collection of exquisite epic scale miniatures, alongside a rulebook, dice, tokens templates, and measuring sticks.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/01/warhammer-preview-battle-on-an-epic-scale-in-the-horus-heresy-legions-imperialis/

I'm sure we'll have a noble soul who'll eventually make a comparison size with different kinds of "Epic Scale" miniature to have the definite answer of the size of these new "Epic Scale" marines.

But honestly, from the article, I'd lean closer towards 10mm than 8. They're definitely bigger than what is actually on the market for sure.

Sarouan wrote:
I'm sure we'll have a noble soul who'll eventually make a comparison size with different kinds of "Epic Scale" miniature to have the definite answer of the size of these new "Epic Scale" marines.

But honestly, from the article, I'd lean closer towards 10mm than 8. They're definitely bigger than what is actually on the market for sure.

I'd be very very happy if Marines are 9-10mm tall, putting normal humans at 7-8mm (ie, 1/4 of a 28-32mm fig). That would make them in line with the latter-half of Epic infantry releases (from 1997 onwards), such as the Valhallans, Chaos Marines, and Eldar resculpts.

edit: took a pic of Valhallan for comparison