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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale...

Very hard to say and depends greatly on the quality of the rule set.

AT had (and I would argue still has) solid sales despite a lack of variety. That's partially because it's a solid set of rules and fun to play.

 schoon wrote:
AT had (and I would argue still has) solid sales despite a lack of variety. That's partially because it's a solid set of rules and fun to play.

I would say AT was a full game experience when it had 3 titan chassis at the latest. Epic might take a while getting there if, for example, there are profiles for core elements such as transport vehicles and artillery in the book already and no models for them forthcoming for what could be a year or more at the usual specialist games pace. People will definitely feel like they're not getting to play the full game if they can't field everything in the book.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 schoon wrote:
AT had (and I would argue still has) solid sales despite a lack of variety. That's partially because it's a solid set of rules and fun to play.

I would say AT was a full game experience when it had 3 titan chassis at the latest. Epic might take a while getting there if, for example, there are profiles for core elements such as transport vehicles and artillery in the book already and no models for them forthcoming for what could be a year or more at the usual specialist games pace. People will definitely feel like they're not getting to play the full game if they can't field everything in the book.

It's going to be significantly easier to round out the Epic roster more quickly than it was with regular HH. For example, we've already seen that the basic space marine infantry sprue includes half a dozen unit types, each of which would require a separate plastic kit (or resin upgrade) at regular scale. Lots of the vehicle variants can be done with a single kit too, and may skip some of the more esoteric options (we don't need 10 different Predator weapon profiles at this scale).

I suspect that in 6-12 months time the main content 'missing' for marines will be niche things like Primarch models or alternative armour marks that exist solely for a cosmetic difference. By then we'll be looking towards a new book with things like Mechanicum models.

What are people expecting from today's Heresy Thursday article? I'm going with core transports like rhinos or land raiders.

 xttz wrote:
What are people expecting from today's Heresy Thursday article? I'm going with core transports like rhinos or land raiders.

They've been shy in showing off anything beyond the core box. If they do, and I think it unlikely, it probably will be an iconic unit like those two. Of course, the Kratos, Spartan or Land Speeder would be nice. For solar auxilia, I'm hoping for Carnodons and Dracosans.

Where is the best place to look for the news as it comes, is it just the Warhammer Community -> Articles page?

FWIW the Reaver titan was announced prior to release of the Titanicus launch box, and released very shortly after. I could see them doing something similar with staple units like rhinos.

Of course they might just do a full article on the new terrain today and release that instead

 Pacific wrote:
Where is the best place to look for the news as it comes, is it just the Warhammer Community -> Articles page?

If you open the specific HH page and click on the News option you can often see articles around 10-15mins before they appear on the main listing.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-horus-heresy/

 xttz wrote:
FWIW the Reaver titan was announced prior to release of the Titanicus launch box, and released very shortly after. I could see them doing something similar with staple units like rhinos.

Of course they might just do a full article on the new terrain today and release that instead

To be fair, they have already previewed the new plastic Dire Wolf kits. I think the new terrain-specific preview will be posted before launch since the pictures already show it.

I expect the previews and releases to follow the same pattern that AT-18 did.

Transports might not be quite as sexy as the other stuff, but should be a VITAL part of any game at that scale.

There better be there at release or very soon after >_>

 Pacific wrote:
Where is the best place to look for the news as it comes, is it just the Warhammer Community -> Articles page?

This page also tends to update before the front page:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/latest-news-features/

Thanks guys!

Yes I agree Albertorius, Rhinos and Land Raiders and the meat and two veg of Epic scale, would be pretty unthinkable for them to release the game without them!

 Pacific wrote:
Thanks guys!

Yes I agree Albertorius, Rhinos and Land Raiders and the meat and two veg of Epic scale, would be pretty unthinkable for them to release the game without them!

Land Raiders were also the OP-est unit in the original Epic 40k ruleset, so yes please have them but don't make them like that

 zedmeister wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Where is the best place to look for the news as it comes, is it just the Warhammer Community -> Articles page?

This page also tends to update before the front page:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/latest-news-features/

The articles themself are often uploaded a few minutes before xx:00, the front page only shows them 10-15 min later but this page normally shows them around 5 mins after xx:00 and if you switch between All and All News you force the page to refresh the articles even before they are shown normally. Thats how you normally get them 2-3 mins before xx:00


We shouldn't forget that Heresy Thursday won't just show LI but also HH2.0 in the future but I also expect today to be another LI article. Whatever they show I expect it to be parallel between SA and SM in the same way the starter is. For example if they show Land Raiders I would also expect the Dracosan. But for today I think we will see either Rhinos and Aurox transports or the new terrain.

Also in this article they said the first wave of releases would be arriving within weeks of the launch box, so I expect the weekend with the box to not have anything else but not a long wait until we get more.
Also there aren't that many Thursdays anymore until the release if they also show a few things for HH2.0
We'll probably also get something shown at GenCon at the beginning of August but I wouldn't expect too much stuff in the first wave after the launch box

If transports aren't available more or less from day 1, I'm going to assume the devs are as out of touch with Epic as they are with Heresy not needing melee troops.

Being able to put units in transports and move them is one of *the* fundamental parts of Epic, and that has been the case for every edition.
Throwing a few survivor tactical units into their two remaining rhinos and heading off to capture a game-winning, unguarded objective on the last turn etc.

It's one of the big differences to 28mm scale, where you have to assume the tanks never get out of first or reverse gear and moves about 30 feet forwards or backwards.

lord_blackfang wrote:If transports aren't available more or less from day 1, I'm going to assume the devs are as out of touch with Epic as they are with Heresy not needing melee troops.

Pacific wrote:Being able to put units in transports and move them is one of *the* fundamental parts of Epic, and that has been the case for every edition.
Throwing a few survivor tactical units into their two remaining rhinos and heading off to capture a game-winning, unguarded objective on the last turn etc.

It's one of the big differences to 28mm scale, where you have to assume the tanks never get out of first or reverse gear and moves about 30 feet forwards or backwards.

Basically that. Not seeing transports in the launch set already sets off some alarms, for me.

Full disclosure, I only ever played one match of Epic (E:A) with someone else's army

Was always an avid fan but by the time it was feasible for me to buy it (ie. we joined the EU and I had credit card) it had died out. I got a few large Ork lots from eBay but never used them.

I reckon a big thing will be price and quality of the rules. Also how they handle the rules, if they pull a typical GW and spread the rules across multiple expensive books, that's not going to encourage a big uptake. It might work for 40k because people are plastic crack addicts when it comes to 40k and 40k already has the massive benefit of being ubiquitous, but with this side games that need to establish themselves and it's very off putting when you realise how much you need to spend to get all the rules.

I'll prooobably buy the starter... killing AI has simultaneously made me salty, burned out my hobby budget in the "last chance to buy" FOMO, and also increased my pile of shame far more than I'd have liked. I'm already regretting buying Leviathan, so as much as I love Epic and want it to succeed, I might observe from the sidelines this time.


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 catbarf wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

It's way, way easier to 3D print stuff at Epic scale, so even if you don't have a printer yourself there's going to be a glut of alternative minis available for sale.

Especially infantry. I'm mainly interested in GW's new Epic from the perspective of vehicles, because I've never managed to get vehicles that don't have print lines on them.

But infantry is sooooo easy to print. Can print several hundred infantry models in a weekend and they come out ready to paint with zero mould lines to clean up. From the close up images, I don't think GW's plastics are any better quality than what I printed on my cheap 50 micron printer, let alone what people do on high res printers.

This 'transports upsell' business is souring my excitement a tad. As others have pointed out, unless they have changed the game in some fundamental way, transports will be essential. That's already an obligatory extra purchase before you can think about the stuff you want.

Remembering the Epic 40k boxed set with its 12 Rhinos, 6 Land Raiders, 6 Whirlwinds, 3 Stompas, and 12 Battlewagons.

The are 2 Warhounds in this one, to be fair.

Vorian wrote:
The are 2 Warhounds in this one, to be fair.

On the one hand, that's something not everybody is going to need, on the other, nobody is getting excited over a bunch of rhinos

IMHO it's an attempt to have most major 'foodgroups' of the game in the starter box: light infantry, heavy infantry, some specialists, walkers, tanks, titans. Only thing missing would be lynchpin characters like Primarchs (understandable not to put in the starter, as it locks you into a legion), air power and non-titan superheavies, so essentially it's a complete-ish overview of the system.

Leaving transports out is still a pretty big omission from a tactics and 'How is this played' point of view, but they may be relatively ubiquituous in the force-specific boxes, we don't know that yet.

Vorian wrote:
The are 2 Warhounds in this one, to be fair.

Which is going to bump up the price unnecessarily, would much rather see more tanks/infantry in the main boxed set and buy Warhounds separately than the other way around (especially since I, and I imagine many others, already have Warhounds from AT anyway ).

Sure, you may or may not want Warhounds in there - but comparing the non Warhound contents and saying one has more is obviously going to favour the one without two titans.

I would imagine Rhinos and Land Raiders are almost certain to be out within 2 or 3 weeks of the core set.

I have, I dunno, 8 AT Warhounds? But they seem like a healthy inclusion to me. Showcase a different tier of model. Honestly a bit of a shame they didn't put a Thunderhawk too, show off flyer and transport rules.

Vorian wrote:
The are 2 Warhounds in this one, to be fair.

That's what they should be selling separately instead, yes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Vorian wrote:
The are 2 Warhounds in this one, to be fair.

Which is going to bump up the price unnecessarily, would much rather see more tanks/infantry in the main boxed set and buy Warhounds separately than the other way around (especially since I, and I imagine many others, already have Warhounds from AT anyway ).

I have 8 Warhounds already, yes >_>

Can’t have too many Warhounds. It’s an asymptotic state, like “enuff dakka” or “the exact value of 1÷∞” - you can get arbitrarily close but the goal is always slightly further away.

hopefully with transports they do "do a Battlefront" and decide they play no part in the game so omit them, providing mobility with what amounts to a "strategem card"

serious face desk if they do that

Oh boy, please do not

 Albertorius wrote:
Oh boy, please do not

BF did it so as to avoid having to make plastic transport models they knew not everyone would buy to replace resin ones

GW will include them, specifically because they will flog a box with Rhinos inside, it will also include other stuff you won't want a silly number of.

personally a box with a number of rhino scaled to be one or two models over what a typical detachment would require works (so you can expand slightly), the sort of thing someone with a combine arms force wants one or two of and an infantry heavy wants maybe double that

nice would be having the rear hatch as a drop on part with options for a whirlwind, razorback and command rhino (and yes I know the razorback isn't in HH yet)

leopard wrote:
hopefully with transports they do "do a Battlefront" and decide they play no part in the game so omit them, providing mobility with what amounts to a "strategem card"

serious face desk if they do that

What utter madness is this? The idea that 'Epic' does not have Rhinos, Land Raiders, Spartans, Gorgons, or the Thunderhawk Gunship, for Pete's sake, is incomprehensible!