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 xttz wrote:
The printing error and delay don't bother me anywhere near as much as the poor communication.

I don't mind waiting until the end of the year if only they'd just say it will be Nov or Dec, instead of this coy "sooner than you think" nonsense.

It's not poor communication, it's standard marketing communication. You never give a solid date, as if there's another delay, you've locked yourself in and will piss off people even further. If you give a woozy answer, it gives you flexibility if you need it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well the way I heard it on Reddit, they recalled the books because they heard Mantic was making their own version, so they realized they better make a functioning ruleset and not just publish what they got from a cat walking across the keyboard.

GW wishes they had rules writers as competent as a cat walking across the keyboard.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The printing error and delay don't bother me anywhere near as much as the poor communication.

I don't mind waiting until the end of the year if only they'd just say it will be Nov or Dec, instead of this coy "sooner than you think" nonsense.

It's not poor communication, it's standard marketing communication. You never give a solid date, as if there's another delay, you've locked yourself in and will piss off people even further. If you give a woozy answer, it gives you flexibility if you need it.

If they had stayed silent in the first place, you'd be correct. From what I've seen, the "sooner than you think" statements for both this and the Horus Heresy box released almost two months after that statement did nothing but rile people up.

That is poor communication.

 Geifer wrote:

GW wishes they had rules writers as competent as a cat walking across the keyboard.

Unnecessary insult for GW rules writers - who, by the way, tend to write for other companies when they go independant or just plainly make their own games, and that when suddenly they're not working for GW they become "instant geniuses" praised by the same people who insulted them in the past. Alessio Cavatore wrote the original Kings of Wars for Mantic Games, and he was previously writing rules for GW - at that time, he was vilipended on the internet. But when he was working with MG, oh boy was he a god.

It's a learning process, mind you, but it's a real low to target those who are genuinely doing their best at writing rules for new games. They are not responsible of all the work pressure they have to deal with, not talking about their own work calendars to release a finished version.

If they had stayed silent in the first place, you'd be correct. From what I've seen, the "sooner than you think" statements for both this and the Horus Heresy box released almost two months after that statement did nothing but rile people up.

That is poor communication.

And that reaction here above is why GW is staying silent right now.

Sarouan wrote:
Unnecessary insult for GW rules writers - who, by the way, tend to write for other companies when they go independant or just plainly make their own games, and that when suddenly they're not working for GW they become "instant geniuses" praised by the same people who insulted them in the past. Alessio Cavatore wrote the original Kings of Wars for Mantic Games, and he was previously writing rules for GW - at that time, he was vilipended on the internet. But when he was working with MG, oh boy was he a god.

When was that? I was working at GW at the same time Alessio was, and all the feedback I remember is him very greatly praised for the books he was involved in, as well as for things like the LotR system, which is still very well regarded.

 Albertorius wrote:

When was that? I was working at GW at the same time Alessio was, and all the feedback I remember is him very greatly praised for the books he was involved in, as well as for things like the LotR system, which is still very well regarded.

His work with skavens at the time of Warhammer Battle was considered unbalanced / too optimized on the internet, as he was thought to be very biased with them.

The famous Skaven book were the first draft went directly to the printer and was onr reason why Cavatore quit.
Still 6th Edition in total and 7th core are considered good, and the bad things of 7th associated with Matt Ward and not Cavatore

What other examples do you have?

Of all people who left and are praised after, which of their games has a bad reputation?
Blitz Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus, Warhammer 6th, 40k 3rd, Necromunda, Lord of the Rings?

Who are you talking about in specific and I don't mean people who wrote a WD article for 7th Edition Dark Elves, but those who worked on the bad rules, left and are now doing a better job?

personally suspect half of the trouble WHFB 8th had wasn't about Mr Ward but about a directive that unit sizes had to be expanded so that existing players had to go out and buy more than the rulebook.

then add phoned in armybooks and you have the mess they ended up with

I got a few reports, let's take all of the off-topic banter elsewhere now please.

 Matrindur wrote:
I am not 100% sure I got this right but apparently the same person who posted the Astra Militarum battleforce image early and has been a source of correct rumours in the past said the next preorders would be:

Battleforces -> Admech/Necrons -> LI

That would mean a November 25th preorder with either a December 2nd or 9th release depending if its a two week preorder or not.

Going back to this rumour for a moment...

GW are showing off "a new miniature for an upcoming Warhammer 40,000 codex" later today, which is almost certainly one of the rumoured additional Necron characters. Them showing this model off now rather than at the scheduled preview stream in mid-November implies an earlier release date and adds credence to that rumour.

They've also confirmed today that the November model of the month is for AOS (not LI), and more importantly the coin is something clearly intended for the xmas period:

Does this all mean the LI coin has now been moved to December, and Epic will be the final big release of 2023?

The book for Da Red Gobbo went up for preorder the same day as Cities, so it's not really a big deal.

 xttz wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:
I am not 100% sure I got this right but apparently the same person who posted the Astra Militarum battleforce image early and has been a source of correct rumours in the past said the next preorders would be:

Battleforces -> Admech/Necrons -> LI

That would mean a November 25th preorder with either a December 2nd or 9th release depending if its a two week preorder or not.

Going back to this rumour for a moment...

GW are showing off "a new miniature for an upcoming Warhammer 40,000 codex" later today, which is almost certainly one of the rumoured additional Necron characters. Them showing this model off now rather than at the scheduled preview stream in mid-November implies an earlier release date and adds credence to that rumour.

They've also confirmed today that the November model of the month is for AOS (not LI), and more importantly the coin is something clearly intended for the xmas period:

Spoiler:

Does this all mean the LI coin has now been moved to December, and Epic will be the final big release of 2023?

Just wanted to post the same thing. Also if the Battleforces are moved up to the 11th as that rumour says it would free up space in December. Preorder on the 25th would also mean a release in early December which is both ideal for the monthly coin and the free mini.
Valrak was also saying in his newest video about kill team that the announced box with scouts vs striking scropions may have been moved to early next year so with that looking at the releases left this year we have:
Battleforces, Admech/Necrons according to that rumour, Legions Imperialis, and maybe a Flesh Eater courts army set if that wasn't pushed to 2024 too. That would only be 4 releases, 5 if LI gets two preorders for launch set and inital wave stuff.
We have 5 preorder weeks left this year since the preorder dates of 16th and 23th December will likely only be made to order stuff and a christmas model as they do every year. (And the 30th will likely be blank) So that lines up perfectly too.

WarCom confirms the Necron codex is coming before the end of the year

Sarouan wrote:

You know it gets ridiculous when people are looking for rumors about the actual date of the pre-order of LI. And that other people do take time to make fake rumors on that matter in hope people actually believe it.

I have no intention of preordering. The only reason I care at all about the preorder date is that then we will know when we can actually order it. Or, more probably for myself, a couple weeks after that when the reviews and first impressions start coming out.

But none of that will be possible until after a date is announced.

From the preview for WD #494:

and painting from all across the Warhammer Studio – including some fledgling Legions Imperialis collections.

Having pictures of different painted Legion Imperialis miniatures is always nice to look at in a White Dwarf, especially when they put a few words on how they did it. It's good to think about beginners / people like me who struggle with choosing colors and how to paint stuff.

The only reason I care at all about the preorder date is that then we will know when we can actually order it. Or, more probably for myself, a couple weeks after that when the reviews and first impressions start coming out.

Yeah, it's very human. It's just that knowing it won't make the waiting time shorter and won't change anything about adding more boxes to your pile of shame. I do find the lack of excitment as LI gets delayed a very good thing for customers : we sure have a lot of time to think about if we really want to invest money in that new game without that "impulsive buy" strategy.

About reviews / "1st impressions"...Warhammer Community articles and the White Dwarf battle report pretty much give enough data to already have a "1st impression" feeling and most of what a review will give away, IMHO.

All we can really do is wait and see about the release of LI. A lot depends on price and whatever they release in first wave and when they do so.
I'm definitely interested in it but £ only goes so far especially with Xmas looming over the horizon. Interested and wait and see is my position.

From my perspective, the good thing about this delay is that it has reduced the likelihood that I will get swept up in the new release hype and buy LI on impulse. And in the meantime I bought the new AoD boxed set, which means less space in my cupboard full of unbuilt kits. I think I'll be sticking with the 28mm version of HH.

I'm still interested on checking the rules, but I don't plan on buying it sight unseen, meaning no preorder for me.

The minis will entirely depend on prices, and on the specific sets, but those will get use either way.

 Snord wrote:
I think I'll be sticking with the 28mm version of HH.

Very understandable. I think the question is more relevant for people who didn't already go into HH and who are hesitating : in that case, I believe LI and its smaller scale is an advantage in itself for those who don't have infinite storage space at their disposal.

I certainly am in that category !

And those who don't want small skirmishes

tneva82 wrote:
And those who don't want small skirmishes

Heh, somewhat. Actually it's more a question of perspective : you can perfectly play 28mm "scale battles" with Epic size games. You just play with something like 500-1000 points on a smaller field, and it certainly takes less time too. You can also play big Apocalypse battles with 28mm, you just need to play on the whole surface of a small apartment. It really depends on time and space to play you have more than anything else.

Well... that and hopefully the system is tailored for the experience.

Sarouan wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And those who don't want small skirmishes

Heh, somewhat. Actually it's more a question of perspective : you can perfectly play 28mm "scale battles" with Epic size games. You just play with something like 500-1000 points on a smaller field, and it certainly takes less time too. You can also play big Apocalypse battles with 28mm, you just need to play on the whole surface of a small apartment. It really depends on time and space to play you have more than anything else.

Eucept it doesn't have big scale battle if you throw more points. Rules always work for certain size. Just because you have 100k points in battle doesn't give big battle feel like game created for big battles gives.

It just feelsmess.

tneva82 wrote:

Eucept it doesn't have big scale battle if you throw more points. Rules always work for certain size. Just because you have 100k points in battle doesn't give big battle feel like game created for big battles gives.

It just feelsmess.

Yes, rules are usually designed with a specific format to play in mind. But they're honestly not what matters when you decide to play a huge battle : the point is more about using your whole big collection of miniatures and having fun with fellow players with same purpose. You know you don't play that kind of games everyday, it's something special in a lifetime to remember.

Using 10mm or 28mm miniatures in a game is a matter of personnal preference, but it's a fact a whole company of space marines in 10mm scale is certainly faster to paint and easier to store than the same in 28mm scale. When Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis were released, it was also the same factor : the opportunity to own some emblematic titans / planes at a smaller scale without having to rip your own heart of to buy one of those FW 28mm scale equivalent / having a headache to put them on your shelves once built and painted. People collect miniatures for the pleasure of it too, they don't especially intend to play with them "seriously". My collection of Aeronautica Imperialis saw, what, a few couple games in all those years at most, and boy did I buy nearly everything because I enjoyed building and collecting these small planes.

Going with the belief that GW will be allowing for pre-orders soon, my question is where will most players purchase the new releases from?

Are the majority of us buying directly from GW?

Is eBay a worthwhile avenue for purchasing the LI box?


Is it possible to purchase from various online sites?

LordBlunt wrote:
Going with the belief that GW will be allowing for pre-orders soon, my question is where will most players purchase the new releases from?

I nearly always use third party for new releases. In the UK at least, several of these stores will do 20% discount & free shipping online. Providing GW gets the stock to them on time then I always get the stuff delivered on the release day Saturday morning too.

LordBlunt wrote:
Going with the belief that GW will be allowing for pre-orders soon, my question is where will most players purchase the new releases from?

Are the majority of us buying directly from GW?

Is eBay a worthwhile avenue for purchasing the LI box?


Is it possible to purchase from various online sites?

It's a Specialist Game, so it really depends on the concerned store's interest to sell those depending on the demand they have.

I try to support my local store as much as I can, especially since it's linked to my local club, but I know they're not interested in having stock they can't sell because there's no enough people interested in the game.

Better to contact the one you'd like to buy from if they intend to sell that or not when pre-order date is confirmed. Big online stores should sell it by default, though.

My only real fear at this point is that there isn't enough to go around and the quantities to independent stores is limited.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
My only real fear at this point is that there isn't enough to go around and the quantities to independent stores is limited.

At release, I expect stuff will be "temporarily unavailable" and it will take a few months for them to come back (see difficulty with Horus Heresy stock for example).

But honestly, at this point, what is waiting a few more months in the end ?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/02/gaze-upon-my-works-ye-mighty-and-smash-them-to-bits-with-the-legions-imperialis-stormhammer/

Super-heavy tanks were a common sight on the battlefields of the Great Crusade, and even as the galaxy slipped into the horrors of the Horus Heresy they continued to spearhead Solar Auxilia assaults with near-impenetrable armour and massive guns. One vehicle above all was the chosen steed of Humanity’s elite – the Stormhammer.

This colossal tank is equal parts artillery battery, fortified bunker, and mobile command post, and designed to lead armoured assaults across treacherous terrain.

Squadrons of up to three Stormhammers at a time can be yours to command in Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Legions Imperialis. As part of the elite Solar Auxilia, these super-heavies were afforded intricate armour trim, and despite their diminutive size these new miniatures capture all of it down to the individual rivets.

Come back next week for another edition of Heresy Thursday, as we approach the release of Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Legions Imperialis and uncover more lost technology from the Age of Darkness.