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Epic started out with five figures in a "X" on a square base, thats how I always played it.

a pain to paint, had to paint before assembly

the later single row strips always looked better for painting

now back to the cluster, though round this time, again making painting harder than it needs to be

pondering how long to paint the marine half on the frames here.

also, not got a clue where to start with the solar infantry in terms of colours

 Crablezworth wrote:

drbored wrote:
Very happy to see the Dracosan.

There's also the 'Light Armor' slot that we haven't seen really anything for. Obvious solutions would be the Sabre for Space Marines and the Carnodon for Solar Auxilia. The Carnodon actually has a model from FW, so here's hoping it gets representation in LI.

I love tanks.

Sabre's are a safe bet give they're the symbol for light armour I believe.

Also the Arquitor as it is on the artillery symbol

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...

Those details are looking very crisp, of course better than the not so good painting video but even the paintjob on the WarCom images makes them look muddier than they seem to be.

You can see individual chain-bayonet teeth here, while the pictures until now had them more as a silver blob on the bottom of the weapon

Yea they do seem better than any previous pictures.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...



Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm

I am going to laugh really hard when they show that the scale is <8mm.

Because it is measured for a human, not for an Ogryn/Marine/Whatever.

SU-152 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...



Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm

I am going to laugh really hard when they show that the scale is <8mm.

Because it is measured for a human, not for an Ogryn/Marine/Whatever.

It's scale 1/4 full size HH models.

have also taken some full size 3d sculpts, set the scale to 25% and hit print

was actually surprised but I got some quarter scale breachers that looked perfectly usable

may vary with some models but they can out fine

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...

Ah that might be the best preview of them we've had so far!

Well thats sorted for me then. The bases I use are about 0.5mm lower than the E40k one shown there. The new models can either be filed down another 0.something of a mm and/or glued inside the base recess. I doubt anyone will notice a bit of their feet sinking into the ground on the tabletop. By then, they shouldn't be to indistinguishable between more modern 6mm scale models ie: vanguard.

My biggest issue going by this, is that my chaos forces will be very small (original GW plastics) or very massive (custom 6-10mm space rats). But I'm honestly not that picky about scale. My plan will be that older models will be used as the 'planetary defence forces' and then new stuff is the 'marines proper' coming in from their home worlds.

I'd half hoped all this time the scale was going to be so far off I'd ignore the new game, after all I already have a 60L plastic tote filled with unpainted Epic/vanguard metals (and a few AI kits), plus all the painted/partially painted stuff from across the years.

I am honestly dreading the queue system tomorrow, more than the cost of the game itself.

 RexHavoc wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...

Ah that might be the best preview of them we've had so far!

Well thats sorted for me then. The bases I use are about 0.5mm lower than the E40k one shown there. The new models can either be filed down another 0.something of a mm and/or glued inside the base recess. I doubt anyone will notice a bit of their feet sinking into the ground on the tabletop. By then, they shouldn't be to indistinguishable between more modern 6mm scale models ie: vanguard.

My biggest issue going by this, is that my chaos forces will be very small (original GW plastics) or very massive (custom 6-10mm space rats). But I'm honestly not that picky about scale. My plan will be that older models will be used as the 'planetary defence forces' and then new stuff is the 'marines proper' coming in from their home worlds.

I'd half hoped all this time the scale was going to be so far off I'd ignore the new game, after all I already have a 60L plastic tote filled with unpainted Epic/vanguard metals (and a few AI kits), plus all the painted/partially painted stuff from across the years.

I am honestly dreading the queue system tomorrow, more than the cost of the game itself.

plan here is to pre-order with a local shop and avoid contact with GW entirely

I don't bother with gw either. Discount, support flgs and hasslefree. Has never failed to provide what I want

Anyone know where the epubs of the rules will be? Thinking more that I want to see the full army building rules before I buy a bunch of stuff. Will those be direct from GW or will things like Play Books and Apple Books have them?

 vadersson wrote:
Anyone know where the epubs of the rules will be? Thinking more that I want to see the full army building rules before I buy a bunch of stuff. Will those be direct from GW or will things like Play Books and Apple Books have them?

In the past they've listed the epub on their main store and that links you over to warhammer digital where you actually can buy it https://www.warhammerdigital.com/

As far as I know GW don't like selling their epubs through any 3rd parties.

Anybody know how thick those old Epic bases are? I was interested in the new bases for my Titanicus models (thankfully mostly unassembled, so hardly any rebasing required) but the pictures straight from GW still made them look pretty thick, especially on infantry models. I'm trying to decide if it's worth throwing money at GW or go with plain old Renedra bases.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...



Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm

I am going to laugh really hard when they show that the scale is <8mm.

Because it is measured for a human, not for an Ogryn/Marine/Whatever.

It's scale 1/4 full size HH models.

Tell that to the fanatic witnesses of "LI will be 8mm[i][u]"

Only a few hours...

 Geifer wrote:
Anybody know how thick those old Epic bases are? I was interested in the new bases for my Titanicus models (thankfully mostly unassembled, so hardly any rebasing required) but the pictures straight from GW still made them look pretty thick, especially on infantry models. I'm trying to decide if it's worth throwing money at GW or go with plain old Renedra bases.

I THINK they're 2mm. I have a base sitting here on my desk that's 2mm.... but I can't remember if it's an original GW one or a Vanguard one. I'd have to dig through my boxes to find one of my old armies to measure one that I 100% know is a GW base and not a Vanguard base to be sure.

SU-152 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

It's scale 1/4 full size HH models.

Tell that to the fanatic witnesses of "LI will be 8mm[i][u]"

40k = 32mm scale, nuEpic = 1/4 40k scale, 1/4 of 32mm is 8mm

You could argue that 40k is 28mm scale... I don't think it is though.

Based on my measurements of the pics, I think a human will be about 7-7.5mm to the eye and 7.5 to 8mm tall overall, but those have a bit of perspective error. Hopefully Stahly has some good pics in his video that we can tell from.

40k and 30k must be 28mm because otherwise all the rant about other companies not keeping up consistent scales would be pointless

also this would make existing 28mm terrain collections obsolete and people would be forced to buy new ones

so 30k is 28mm and therefore LI is 7mm, it is just that Marines are larger than humans

/s

While we're talking about them being 1/4 the size, I assume they mean 1/4 in length.
If that's the case, then the scaled volume of the models is (1/4)^3 = 1/64th in volume.
So, these wee LI fellas are 1/64th the plastic of the same 30k model.

Are the prices of individual models going to be 1/64th in price compared to each other?
Will we get 64 times as many for the same price?

I guess not.

 kodos wrote:
40k and 30k must be 28mm because otherwise all the rant about other companies not keeping up consistent scales would be pointless

also this would make existing 28mm terrain collections obsolete and people would be forced to buy new ones

so 30k is 28mm and therefore LI is 7mm, it is just that Marines are larger than humans

/s

I'm inclined to agree. Admech, Imp Guard, GSC, all are pretty close to 28mm. It's just the majority of the models that end up on the table are things that are supposed to (or at least can) be larger. Notably Marines, but also Orks, Tyranids etc. Its not helped though by GW's habit of also growing things in size based on importance like we are playing Warcraft 3.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

leopard wrote:
40k writers have never really had a sense of scale or the ability to rationalise numbers

I've always assumed it's some sort of joke or maybe trying to hearken back to the olden days when decisive major battles were a lot smaller. Because a lot of the silly numbers go right back to the early days of GW, and several of the blokes who were involved with GW in those early days were history buffs. They would have been well aware the scale of battles fought through history.

I dont know that its a joke. I think its more that they needed references for how big a "real" battle would be, and referred back to what they knew to get the answers and ran with it.

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

Scale creep.. scale creep everywhere. The old epic minis still have their charm though.

Its not scale creep if the new minis were designed at a completely different scale. Which they were.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...

Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm

Yes. Clearly this is what a true scale marine at 8mm looks like.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Anybody know how thick those old Epic bases are? I was interested in the new bases for my Titanicus models (thankfully mostly unassembled, so hardly any rebasing required) but the pictures straight from GW still made them look pretty thick, especially on infantry models. I'm trying to decide if it's worth throwing money at GW or go with plain old Renedra bases.

I THINK they're 2mm. I have a base sitting here on my desk that's 2mm.... but I can't remember if it's an original GW one or a Vanguard one. I'd have to dig through my boxes to find one of my old armies to measure one that I 100% know is a GW base and not a Vanguard base to be sure.

Thanks!

It really looks kind of strange to me. I wonder if the old one might be 1.5mm and 2mm on the Legions Imperials base. GW's normal 25mm base is 3mm in height, so if 2mm for the old Epic base is accurate, the new base wouldn't be much less at all. That feels off, right?

Hmm, maybe it's best to assume the Legions bases are twice as thick as I'd like them to be for now.

SU-152 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...



Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm

I am going to laugh really hard when they show that the scale is <8mm.

Because it is measured for a human, not for an Ogryn/Marine/Whatever.

It's scale 1/4 full size HH models.

Tell that to the fanatic witnesses of "LI will be 8mm[i][u]"

Only a few hours...

Bruv, you're in denial. GW doesn't even refer to their own miniatures as 28mm anymore, they haven't in over a decade, becaue they aren't. Everything has been relatively scaled up, even the cadians (most of them are posed with more bend in the legs and back than the old cadians who are otherwise more erect, yet they are the same height - a modern cadian mini at full height stands a few mm taller than an old cadian... because they aren't 28mm anymore). If they are 32mm, which is otherwise fairly consistent scaling for most modern minis in the GW range, then 1/4 of 32mm = 8mm.

The fact that the solar auxilia are also noticeably several mm taller than their old 6mm guard counterparts should also be a huge clue.

leopard wrote:
Epic started out with five figures in a "X" on a square base, thats how I always played it.

a pain to paint, had to paint before assembly

the later single row strips always looked better for painting

now back to the cluster, though round this time, again making painting harder than it needs to be

pondering how long to paint the marine half on the frames here.

also, not got a clue where to start with the solar infantry in terms of colours

The W+ battle report had Solar stuff that was serving the Ultramarines...and were in the Ultras style colours.

Guessing the book will have lots of reference for painting too

 Geifer wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Anybody know how thick those old Epic bases are? I was interested in the new bases for my Titanicus models (thankfully mostly unassembled, so hardly any rebasing required) but the pictures straight from GW still made them look pretty thick, especially on infantry models. I'm trying to decide if it's worth throwing money at GW or go with plain old Renedra bases.

I THINK they're 2mm. I have a base sitting here on my desk that's 2mm.... but I can't remember if it's an original GW one or a Vanguard one. I'd have to dig through my boxes to find one of my old armies to measure one that I 100% know is a GW base and not a Vanguard base to be sure.

Thanks!

It really looks kind of strange to me. I wonder if the old one might be 1.5mm and 2mm on the Legions Imperials base. GW's normal 25mm base is 3mm in height, so if 2mm for the old Epic base is accurate, the new base wouldn't be much less at all. That feels off, right?

Hmm, maybe it's best to assume the Legions bases are twice as thick as I'd like them to be for now.

I had a flick through my bases, I believe the old GW bases were 2mm, and Vanguard's bases are 1.6mm.

I measured a few bases I have sitting on my desk, it looks like a regular 25mm base is 3.3mm, a 28.5mm base is 3.6mm. So these new ones are maybe 2.5ish?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
It's great to see them in hand as it were and compared to the old epic scale.

The new ones look a lot "bigger" than I was expecting.

Given I chose 8mm-to-the-eye scale for my 3D printed Epic models even before LI was announced, it's roughly what I was expecting.

Those old marines were pretty tiny. At the risk of reigniting the scale wars.... I believe those old Marines were small even for 6mm.

They were, yeah. It's funny because the scouts of the same sprue are giants in comparison xD

 Albertorius wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
It's great to see them in hand as it were and compared to the old epic scale.

The new ones look a lot "bigger" than I was expecting.

Given I chose 8mm-to-the-eye scale for my 3D printed Epic models even before LI was announced, it's roughly what I was expecting.

Those old marines were pretty tiny. At the risk of reigniting the scale wars.... I believe those old Marines were small even for 6mm.

They were, yeah. It's funny because the scouts of the same sprue are giants in comparison xD

Spoiler:

Need to include the Chaplain model in the comparison, the Chaplain was huge and probably would look right at home among the Legions Imperialis models.

chaos0xomega wrote:


Yes. Clearly this is what a true scale marine at 8mm looks like.

Too bad now we need true scale titans. Warlord titan is 33m in 6mm, 25m in 8mm scale while fluff describes them at 33m.so if infantry is in 8mm(ie marines 9-10mm) then we need redo of titan line

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Anybody know how thick those old Epic bases are? I was interested in the new bases for my Titanicus models (thankfully mostly unassembled, so hardly any rebasing required) but the pictures straight from GW still made them look pretty thick, especially on infantry models. I'm trying to decide if it's worth throwing money at GW or go with plain old Renedra bases.

I THINK they're 2mm. I have a base sitting here on my desk that's 2mm.... but I can't remember if it's an original GW one or a Vanguard one. I'd have to dig through my boxes to find one of my old armies to measure one that I 100% know is a GW base and not a Vanguard base to be sure.

Thanks!

It really looks kind of strange to me. I wonder if the old one might be 1.5mm and 2mm on the Legions Imperials base. GW's normal 25mm base is 3mm in height, so if 2mm for the old Epic base is accurate, the new base wouldn't be much less at all. That feels off, right?

Hmm, maybe it's best to assume the Legions bases are twice as thick as I'd like them to be for now.

I had a flick through my bases, I believe the old GW bases were 2mm, and Vanguard's bases are 1.6mm.

I measured a few bases I have sitting on my desk, it looks like a regular 25mm base is 3.3mm, a 28.5mm base is 3.6mm. So these new ones are maybe 2.5ish?

Thank you for going to all the trouble, I appreciate it!

With those numbers in mind I think I'm going to hold off for now. I'm game for a Rapier or Tarantula or two as base decoration for my titans and bound to buy a support weapons box down the line. I'll see how I feel about the bases when I have them in hand. Would have been nice to get this question definitely answered with the first Legions release, but I guess I've waited over half a year already, so what's a little more?

It wouldn't be quite as bothersome if the Marines didn't all step in guano piles. Those things need to be removed or covered up, so that potentially adds height to an already tall base. I'm not a fan of that.

leopard wrote:

plan here is to pre-order with a local shop and avoid contact with GW entirely

yeah same, except that the tiles and a few other items are direct only.

I assume I'll be able to buy multiple starters from my local without issue, I know GW have been limiting orders on direct but I don't know how well they plan to stock independents.

This isn't kill team or some other sell out kit, but if I'm limited to buying a single set then I'm unlikely to order right away as its not enough stuff to warrant opening it to paint. I'd rather wait till next year when I can bulk buy.

But I do need to get my hands on those tiles. Even if I can't get anything else, they would help greatly in getting a new table up and usable.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I had a flick through my bases, I believe the old GW bases were 2mm, and Vanguard's bases are 1.6mm.

I measured a few bases I have sitting on my desk, it looks like a regular 25mm base is 3.3mm, a 28.5mm base is 3.6mm. So these new ones are maybe 2.5ish?

Yeap the old 1997 ones are about 2mm and have a more matte look about them. Vanguard are about 1.5mm/1.6mm and are a glossier plastic. The new rounds look every so slightly thicker than the E40k ones.

I'll be using mine for things like making new tokens and objectives. Though I could be tempted to do my Nids on round bases.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

40k = 32mm scale, nuEpic = 1/4 40k scale, 1/4 of 32mm is 8mm

You could argue that 40k is 28mm scale... I don't think it is though.

.

GW has never lied before, sure.

We'll see how tall they are in a few hours.

tneva82 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Yes. Clearly this is what a true scale marine at 8mm looks like.

Too bad now we need true scale titans. Warlord titan is 33m in 6mm, 25m in 8mm scale while fluff describes them at 33m.so if infantry is in 8mm(ie marines 9-10mm) then we need redo of titan line

There are sources that describe warlord titans as being 40m tall, 60m tall, 200m tall, and some that have warlord titans as being several kilometers tall. Your argument is meaningless, because GW can't agree on how tall a warlord titan is themselves.

GW has a new painting tutorial up on Youtube that uses LI models. Unfortunately, their production values continue to decline.