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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except to maintain current profit levels, any price cut needs a matching uplift in sales, because the first thing you lost is your profit margin.
Running at 36%? That’s a hell of an increase in sales you’d need.
And they clearly don't need to do it, because they are struggling to meet demand as it is.
It also depends on what metric they consider "profit". Eg it might be that at 50% they could profit in terms of the raw production cost; but that might not be factoring any marketing/design investment into it.
It's a little like "how much does a Hollywood film cost" is a value that can vary by massive margins depending on the slant they want to put the film on and at what point in development you take the value. Eg just the raw cost of the film can be a much lower number than the cost of the film plus its proomtional/marketing material.
To be fair, I am far from being a cranky, hater, and meant no antagonism. I've got four starters of LI ordered, and am a proper happy idiot to have the game.
I simply meant there are countless variables that leave us all non-experts. Hell, hypothetically if GW slashed prices by half, a dummy like me would eagerly buy four times as much. Business theory-craft is an art as much as a science, so just fun to conjecture about.
To be fair, I am far from being a cranky, hater, and meant no antagonism. I've got four starters of LI ordered, and am a proper happy idiot to have the game.
I simply meant there are countless variables that leave us all non-experts. Hell, hypothetically if GW slashed prices by half, a dummy like me would eagerly buy four times as much. Business theory-craft is an art as much as a science, so just fun to conjecture about.
It’s very possible, even very likely they price things to make the discount at FLGS look good. They still make sales, and hold a big market share.
And still get people diving in and buying mountains of plastic no matter what they do.
I think the Warhounds are really what damages the value proposition of it all
On the one hand, I agree. Players who played AT likely already have more Warhounds than they're likely to want. So they're an unneeded addition to the box for AT players. Further, given that there's two of them, they're a big, clunky addition points-wise, since you're restricted in how you can use them when putting your army together.
Fundamentally a starter box is always going to be a better deal for some players than others. I've seen a few people talk about how the HH AOD box didn't work well for their particular legion, while other players were happy to pick up more than one copy.
In time we'll see LI discount boxes, and possibly a new starter set in a few years once the range has grown a bit. Those will help to pick up new customers with different requirements.
Yes, starter boxes are naturally more of a good deal for some people more than others, but it seems like a rather small subset that this one is a good deal for to me.
You already have something you bought for AT? Not a great deal. You only want to build a small army? Not a great deal because you can't use most of it until higher points values. You don't have a friend**** to split it with? Not a great deal.
If they release discount boxes that will be a different story, but it would have been nice to see some battleforce type boxes available now to make the game more appealing IMO.
The 30% allies rules does feel a bit annoying to me anyway, the HH was very much a combined arms thing with large forces of marines fighting alongside large forces of regular humans fighting alongside titan legions. Seems odd to crop it at 30% allies.
We know it's sold out quickly, so maybe GW did the right thing with what they've done, but it also may have sold out due to lack of copies, given the delays it wouldn't be surprising if they released less than they originally planned.
****On the topic of not having friends to split it with.... anyone in Melbourne interested in splitting a couple of boxes? Haha. Even splitting boxes I'm not 100% sure if it's worth it for me as I, like I imagine many others, already have a few titans.
Even if people have a bunch of warhounds from/for AT they haven't done a reprint, they are giving them a whole new set of weapons- 2 that were resin and 2 completely new ones.
Agreed. I have four warhounds from AT already. I don’t need any more, although the new weapons are of some interest. It definitely lowers the value a second box would have for me though.
Thanks. I'm not thrilled about getting more Warhounds (I think I have 8 ) but at least it sounds like I only need 1 of that sprue to kit out a bunch of them.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
In some ways its quite clever of GW to create a starter box you will want one of, maybe want two of but see little value in three or more of
its the same as the Flames "Open Fire" box, a decent deal for the models within it, but not worth more than two as you wouldn't want more than two lots of the models
Yeah, I dont like the contents of the starter either. I also think that 30% limitation for titans etc is daft, I already imagined it'd present fun narrative mission prospects if you had to defend yourself against a force consisting of 100% Titans or flyers
I'll be either waiting for a Marine-centric battleforce, or just give up on any savings altogether and collect one kit at a time, building and painting it before buying the next one. I don't want Warhounds (they hardly count as Titans in my books, I want Reavers or larger) and I don't want SA (not at first anyways), and getting rid of those will be too much work. Also, the Marine vehicles in the starter only contain half a kits worth of sprue, so one would need more of them almost immediately. The starter only makes sense if you are startng LI with a friend and you both split your boxes, one starter is an odd duckling with too many lowest tier titans and too little of the other stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/20 09:37:06
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
leopard wrote: In some ways its quite clever of GW to create a starter box you will want one of, maybe want two of but see little value in three or more of
They've created a starter box that I can't even decide if I want one of, let alone multiples
But even if people only want one, the question is whether it's a turn off to people starting the game at all. I reckon GW primarily want people spending money regardless of what they're spending it on, they'd rather have people buying multiple starters than not buying anything.
really strange bit is that starter mission they have up for download apparently isn't in the box.
so you get a rulebook, unmatched forces and some "support" titans that according to the rules you cannot use
inclined to agree with a review I watched that said it would have been better to not include the warhounds but instead to have a box of the terrain included
also thin card tokens? unless GW have a pack of them in plastic coming that seems a very poor choice when other games they do have thicker cardstock.
Guess first job here is to design and print some order tokens, and ones that can be slightly more colourful with the actual order in text written on one side
however its nice to have also seen a review noting the marines are ~9mm tall, which is good as that matches the ones I have printed
MajorWesJanson wrote: Even if people have a bunch of warhounds from/for AT they haven't done a reprint, they are giving them a whole new set of weapons- 2 that were resin and 2 completely new ones.
Sounds very "Malibu Stacy's new hat" to me
That said, if I do get the boxed set, you can be sure I'll be equipping the Ursus Claws and yelling out "FIRE THE URSUS CLAWS!" at every opportunity.
Might even do a World Eaters army just for the hell of it (are Ursus Claws mentioned in any context other than the World Eaters? ).
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: Yeah, I dont like the contents of the starter either. I also think that 30% limitation for titans etc is daft, I already imagined it'd present fun narrative mission prospects if you had to defend yourself against a force consisting of 100% Titans or flyers
That wouldn't go very far with zero ability to control objectives. All you need is other side survive in one objective for one turn and win. Best 100% titan force will get is draw and that requires getting rid of everything in every objective as they move in. Fail even once and you lose.
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leopard wrote: really strange bit is that starter mission they have up for download apparently isn't in the box.
so you get a rulebook, unmatched forces and some "support" titans that according to the rules you cannot use
Heh. One thing that's standard in GW starter sets is illegal armies. Or total way off the point values.
They are never meant to be matched play ready go armies...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/20 09:49:09
Has anyone come across sprue pics for the Sicaran? They’re missing from the GW website, and I’d like to know if, like the Predators, they come with excess turrets for super easy Swapsies of main weapon systems.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
tauist wrote: Yeah, I dont like the contents of the starter either. I also think that 30% limitation for titans etc is daft, I already imagined it'd present fun narrative mission prospects if you had to defend yourself against a force consisting of 100% Titans or flyers
That wouldn't go very far with zero ability to control objectives. All you need is other side survive in one objective for one turn and win. Best 100% titan force will get is draw and that requires getting rid of everything in every objective as they move in. Fail even once and you lose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
leopard wrote: really strange bit is that starter mission they have up for download apparently isn't in the box.
so you get a rulebook, unmatched forces and some "support" titans that according to the rules you cannot use
Heh. One thing that's standard in GW starter sets is illegal armies. Or total way off the point values.
They are never meant to be matched play ready go armies...
Even in the fluff Titans always have ground troops supporting to stop enemies just walking up to them and taking them out.
But 30% is still tiny, if you wanted to recreate many of the battles in the books you'd need more like 50 to 90% titans, not 30%.
But I agree the 30% is daft, it was more common than not for Legions to be accompanied by large numbers of regular humans and Titans, 30% feels way too small.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Has anyone come across sprue pics for the Sicaran? They’re missing from the GW website, and I’d like to know if, like the Predators, they come with excess turrets for super easy Swapsies of main weapon systems.
Crablezworth wrote: The previewed enough in the warcom terrain article below to show that structures are separate from ruins which are separate from area terrain, again its specificity here im looking for in regards to ruins with concepts that are already out there. I undesrtand structures can be destroyed, the problem is you replace structures with area terrain and not ruins. Ruins have their own rules, but as with area terrain they just gave a few bullet points in an infographic in the article.
I pre ordered a box of the new ruins, so just concerned about how its all gonna come together rules wise. People are envisioning replacing structures with ruins, but going by the warcom article that isn't how it will work, the destroyed structures are replaced with area terrain.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but by re-reading those terrain rules, ruins are indeed area terrain, so:
- Difficult area terrain: rubble and such.
- Obstructing area terrain: ruins, forests and such
- Dangerous area terrain: toxic waste, lava...
- Structures: not exactly area, garrisoning is possible
As ever, Sponsons look to be too faffy for Swapsies (at least to me), but again we’re seeing swappable turrets.
That may affect perceived value, as we’re not forced to choose between a fixed load out or fiddling around. Which in turns means if you start out thinking Weapon A is what you need, but experience shows perhaps Weapon B might work best, we don’t have to go buy a new box to set that right.
Shame that doesn’t extend to the Leman Russ kit though.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
tauist wrote: Yeah, I dont like the contents of the starter either. I also think that 30% limitation for titans etc is daft, I already imagined it'd present fun narrative mission prospects if you had to defend yourself against a force consisting of 100% Titans or flyers
That wouldn't go very far with zero ability to control objectives. All you need is other side survive in one objective for one turn and win. Best 100% titan force will get is draw and that requires getting rid of everything in every objective as they move in. Fail even once and you lose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
leopard wrote: really strange bit is that starter mission they have up for download apparently isn't in the box.
so you get a rulebook, unmatched forces and some "support" titans that according to the rules you cannot use
Heh. One thing that's standard in GW starter sets is illegal armies. Or total way off the point values.
They are never meant to be matched play ready go armies...
totally off point values yes, seldom Marines getting the short end though, but not usually stuff you, according to their rules, flat out cannot use - except when you get some starter scenarios in the box to get around the oddball contents - contents usually picked to demonstrate all aspects of the game (e.g. 40k sets with infantry, a vehicle, a bike or some sort, a walker etc)
tauist wrote: Yeah, I dont like the contents of the starter either. I also think that 30% limitation for titans etc is daft, I already imagined it'd present fun narrative mission prospects if you had to defend yourself against a force consisting of 100% Titans or flyers
That wouldn't go very far with zero ability to control objectives. All you need is other side survive in one objective for one turn and win. Best 100% titan force will get is draw and that requires getting rid of everything in every objective as they move in. Fail even once and you lose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
leopard wrote: really strange bit is that starter mission they have up for download apparently isn't in the box.
so you get a rulebook, unmatched forces and some "support" titans that according to the rules you cannot use
Heh. One thing that's standard in GW starter sets is illegal armies. Or total way off the point values.
They are never meant to be matched play ready go armies...
1st: as already seen with SM, some formations give special rules about capturing/contesting objectives. Titan formations could have a rule that increases their TacticalStrength/whatever.
2nd: army is not illegal, and contents of the box can be perfectly used: just not in tournament play. I think people are obsessed with matched play. like there is no other way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/20 10:15:51
keep in mind though at some point you will get titan army rules (probably) and knight army rules (again probably) where they are the 70% and the small dudes wandering about are the 30%
or failing that just go in effect 2v2 and have a 50-50 split with each "half" having its own allied bit if they want it.
Having seen a few games demoed though I do think movement is vastly too fast, using inches is a mistake, if at this scale stuff is in combat on the second turn something is wrong as its removing movement and manoeuvring for position from the game. Also if infantry can run 15" in this scale, and only face a single round of weapons fire doing so, hopping from cover to cover works.
but perhaps more interestingly, whats the value of transports again? when the little guys were going 8cm, or 16cm at a cost of not firing suddenly the 20/30cm a turn of a Rhino mattered
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
