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Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.

Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.

tneva82 wrote:
Not that easy if you are careful where you land. Hitting on 6'st and good saves means not many detachment can overfire them to death. Enemy planes meanwhile can't hunt before transport has already disgorged troops.

GMG's got killed by enemy interceptors.

But yeah, I haven't read all the rules around transports yet, but I found it odd that T1 GMG flew on but didn't disembark troops, meaning that when one of them went down it took the troops in it with them. I assume that was an operator error rather than a rules based reason for doing it?


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.

Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.

Not sure the books in those boxes were bigger, they seem about the same size to me.

My LI box had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place, did yours not?

My LI box was laid out basically identical to the Leviathan box. Folded cardboard at the bottom where the rulebook sits in the middle. Bases in the nook to the side of that, then a poster covering the book and cardboard frame to keep it separated from the sprues.

It seems the problem for my box was that the sprues were sliding against each other, because there's too much empty space, whereas the Leviathan box was so heavily packed that nothing could move. I think what they needed was some packing material above the sprues to fill the empty space.

But if yours came without even the cardboard frame to hold the book in place, that would be more catastrophic and maybe came from the repacking stage?

If only that empty space had been filled with, as a completely random example, 4 Kratos

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.

Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.

My copy of LI had that cardboard frame?

Could these damages been due to reopening and repacking the core manual?

Sorry, I didn't buy a box at all. I got the impression from this post a couple of weeks ago that there was no internal bracing in the box.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I haven't received my box (in Australia and still waiting for release day) but given the box has a lot of space, the nature of the small delicate models, and that they've probably been repacked at some point, hardly a surprise it has a lot of damage. Some of the earlier AI boxes also weren't completely full so they used those packing air bag thingos to fill the space and stop things rattling around, but from the unboxings I've seen, they didn't include anything similar in the LI box.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not that easy if you are careful where you land. Hitting on 6'st and good saves means not many detachment can overfire them to death. Enemy planes meanwhile can't hunt before transport has already disgorged troops.

GMG's got killed by enemy interceptors.

Then either they misplayed or they kept troops inside for some reason. You don't bring own planes to intercept when transport comes to move. Interceptor happens when unit with that rule has moved.

Transport moves, potential overwatch happens, troops hop out. Then you could bring interceptor unit to shoot at the transport but the _troops are already out_. Even if you blow the transport the units they carried were already out.

Only way to destroy plane with troops inside is with overwatch or if plane is used to attack ground targets rather than bring in troops. Which is user error/gamble that didn't pay off. But doesn't mean flying transport is death trap.

If you don't gamble and send plane with troops inside to attack rather than wait then only thing that threatens you is overwatch. And yes 6 sicarans with autocannons can do quite a threat. As can 10 russ with vanquisher and lascannons

10 leman russ with vanquishers. 1.6666 hit. 5+ jink saves(going for 5+ is better than 4+ rerolling success) so 1.111 saves. 10 lascannons for 1.666 hit for 0.555 damage. That's almost enough to drop one so good idea to avoid those right away until you can soften up.

Yes there ARE tools to counter but that's price you pay for having otherwise pretty darn strong trick. If you didn't have risk you could even t1 charge those 10 rush with 4 contemptor/8 assault marines without much of a counter play. That would be too good.

There has to be some risk forcing marine to at least soften up biggest dangers to the transport

White scar is even better. 4+ jink which ignores armour bane makes them REAL tough. Hit on 6's, 2+ save, 4+ jink...

Too bad for white scars their infantry has no benefit whatsoever.

It definitely has a heavy cardboard bracing in the box to stop the rulebook moving around. I'm looking at it. Any breakages aren't due to that.

While the box does have a cardboard insert to stop the book from moving around, it doesn't stop the book from being a heavy weight on the sprues if the box is flipped. There is also a thin cardboard so the book doesn't directly touch the sprues but that doesn't really protect the sprues. That one is more so the sprues don't scratch the book.
Granted that was also the case for Leviathan but LI has way smaller/fragile parts on the sprues and since its not packed as tight as Leviathan the sprues can move around and overlap each other which in turn can results in even more punctual pressure from the book.

And its also likely that some damages simply happened due to the repackaging.

If parts are broken off an not in the box then certainly an issue at the packing/repacking step.

 Matrindur wrote:
While the box does have a cardboard insert to stop the book from moving around, it doesn't stop the book from being a heavy weight on the sprues if the box is flipped. There is a cardboard insert so the book doesn't directly touch the sprues but that doesn't really protect the sprues. That one is more so the sprues don't scratch the book.
Granted that was also the case for Leviathan but LI has way smaller/fragile parts on the sprues and since its not packed as tight as Leviathan the sprues can move around and overlap each other which in turn can results in even more punctual pressure from the book.

And its also likely that some damages simply happened due to the repackaging.

Maybe I need to take a picture, Yes my box had the cardboard in it but the cardboard was pretty smashed One of the warhound bases actually cut through it somehow. Yes Leviathan came with a big heavy book also, but the miniatures are much more substantial and less likely to break. Had they even put the sprue in a large zip lock bag like many other companies do, it probably would have fixed the issue. In my box at at least, there was nothing separating the book from the sprues. I didn't just have parts come off the sprue, one of my Malcador Hull pieces was crushed and snapped in two. Two dreadnaught main bodies were dislodged from the sprue entirely along with many infantry which most came out whole but some did not.

The choices made for this box and release in general confuse me. Big heavy beautiful, but 75% useless book.....but cheap counters that will see lots of use, and no cards. The included choice of units is bizarre to me, along with the choice of units not given data sheets in the book. The models themselves, while the infantry are great, why did they make the vehicles so overly fiddley, surely the hulls could have been one piece? It all feels very poorly thought out on just about every level. I think this game needed to incubate some more. They should have learned more lessons for past epic releases.

I'll fight you on the tanks. The fiddleyness of the kits makes me ecstatic in a world of increasingly less detailed and fun to build models. Check out battletech for more pre-built stuff in similar scale.

But I loved me my tiny airplanes and tanks man.

I would not call my experience building a Sicaran anything near "fun" myself.

Quick&easy though. Biggest hindrance on building many is a) availability b) price

didn't find the tanks that hard, though this is speaking as someone who hand solders surface mount components and works on "N" gauge model railways

even though I can print some of these tanks the actual Prediator kit is nicer than the print files so likely grabbing a box at some point, they were really nice to paint.

the Sicaran isn't that bad either and also nice to paint so likewise likely grabbing a box.

I think the starter contents were built around an initial "wave 1" release that was meant to have two factions, and to be a box where you likely don't want too many copies so the "discount" becomes less.

until you split them with someone of course.

whats somewhat frustrating so far is the mix of infantry in a box. for marines getting half a detachment of heavy, support, assault and terminators is a bit rubbish frankly, and will make having effective infantry lists, without going down alternative routes, awkward and expensive.

the basic tactical bods are ok, but they need the backup and with the mix in the boxes its not there.

hopefully at some point there will be a second infantry box with other units in, and more support stuff

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.

Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.

The boxes for all of the above were also *filled*, which makes a big difference. The book not being able to move because its held in place by a full compliment of sprues that limit its range of motion to just a couple millimeters of movement prevents the book from being able to cause meaningful damage. My box of LI has a full ~25mm gap between the height of the sprues and the box lid, which is enough distance for both the sprues and the book to move and pick up enough momentum to break or dislodge parts. I don't even think a set of 4 kratos would have been enough to fix that, I think it needed the kratos AND a couple sets of terrain sprues to fill in the volume.

axotl wrote:
I'll fight you on the tanks. The fiddleyness of the kits makes me ecstatic in a world of increasingly less detailed and fun to build models. Check out battletech for more pre-built stuff in similar scale.

But I loved me my tiny airplanes and tanks man.

The tanks are way over engineered, could have been one piece hulls instead of 4 or five, yes I want separate turrets, I don't need 4 separate mufflers and exhaust pipes on each Rhino Chassis, when I have to build 20 or 30 of them. Are there people that would enjoy putting each individual track link on....sure, there are. There is however a level that is good enough for 90% people. I mean really, the Rhinos and Landraiders from almost every Boxed release of epic were detailed enough for most everyone, one piece hull, attach guns and turrets. Id rather have twice as many slightly less detailed tanks, then get half of them that take 5 times the work. But hey, more parts take up more space on a sprue so GW can give us less but charge more for superfluous details. There should not be a part on these sprues smaller than a infantryman, you are just scaring people away, especially with a starter box. Add on boxes could be more complex, but I wouldn't buy this for my kid.....which is pretty much GWs sales target.

There is a point where GW increases complexity just to increase price while actually dragging value down. All over the place I feel GW makes the poor value decisions with the content of this box.

Sure. And then result in less details. See what complain came on infantry arm filled? Same in tanks.

Gw can't break laws of physics.

It's trade between quality and # of pieces. Gw went for max quality.

Even now assembly is fast axd easy enough child can do fast.

Don't like assembly, ask your 8year old relative to assemble for candies

agreed with tneva.

The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.

Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.

Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.

sorry to hear that, I'm not in the same boat, just clumsy, and liable to flick small parts into the depths of the carpet but only once they have glue on them. I gave up and use tweezers, the sort that you press to open them. blessing for small parts of models. not sure if you have tried them but could be worth a look?

tneva82 wrote:
Sure. And then result in less details. See what complain came on infantry arm filled? Same in tanks.

Gw can't break laws of physics.

It's trade between quality and # of pieces. Gw went for max quality.

Even now assembly is fast axd easy enough child can do fast.

Don't like assembly, ask your 8year old relative to assemble for candies

My point exactly. The infantry are one piece plastic, you cant break the laws of casting, NO UNDERCUTS. Once painted and put on bases, you can't even see most of those issues. The people complaining about that have no clue how injection molding works, what a great job they actually accomplished, or how much better they look than old Epic infantry.....I thought making the missile launcher a separate piece was great.

However looking at my old one piece Rhinos, Yeah I'd rather have 50 of these 1 piece Rhinos than 10 of those 10 piece Rhinos. There is such little difference in detail. Still has 4 exhausts, just molded into the body, yeah the exhausts don't protrude over the top of the body, but who is even going to notice that? I bet I could put them on the table and very few people would see the difference if they were in the same scale. These LI tanks are needlessly over detailed and complex for this scale. But, you couldnt charge $5 a Rhino for a one piece model I guess.

Oh, I dont mind the Rhinos, assembling them didnt feel to fiddly. Drilling the exhaust vents on the small pieces is much more challenging tbh

What I'm having difficulty with are the missile launchers on the Marines. I dont know how they are supposed to slot on to the torso, and the contact point seems oddly shaped. Any tips for getting those to sit right would be appreciated!

 tauist wrote:
Oh, I dont mind the Rhinos, assembling them didnt feel to fiddly. Drilling the exhaust vents on the small pieces is much more challenging tbh

What I'm having difficulty with are the missile launchers on the Marines. I dont know how they are supposed to slot on to the torso, and the contact point seems oddly shaped. Any tips for getting those to sit right would be appreciated!

I actually bought some plastic glue due to this (and similar) tiny components.

The best way I found to do the missile guys is to hold the model so that you're looking at the back, then press the arm in. You should see the shoulder pad go flush into the body/backpack and give a good connection. Then turn it around and tilt the arm up/down slightly if needed to make the opposite arm line up.

Brought a Box with broken and missing Parts at my "not so" local top tier top1 ten GW trader in the Nation FLGS Store - Customer Service says bring it back to them for a replacement Set.
Friend brought a Box with broken and missing Parts at the next local Warhammer/GW Store - Customer Service says bring it back to them for a replacement Set.

For what do they have a customer service?

Many thanks for your email, and I'm sorry to hear the product you purchased from your local supplier wasn't in perfect condition.

If I could please ask that you contact the stockist for a replacement/refund, as they will need to resolve this for you. They have allowances within their trade account with us to replace this for you or refund you.

If you do have any issues when contacting them please get back in touch and we will see if there is any further assistance we can provide.

Sure, I bring the box back by taking the train and wait months because the Set is out of stock aeternum...

leopard wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.

Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.

sorry to hear that, I'm not in the same boat, just clumsy, and liable to flick small parts into the depths of the carpet but only once they have glue on them. I gave up and use tweezers, the sort that you press to open them. blessing for small parts of models. not sure if you have tried them but could be worth a look?

It’s something I’ve adapted to over the years, and I do get there in the end!

I might be getting a box of Rhinos next Friday, so it’s not a total dealbreaker for me. And if nothing else, it’s an impressive bit of kit detailing.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The boxes for all of the above were also *filled*, which makes a big difference. The book not being able to move because its held in place by a full compliment of sprues that limit its range of motion to just a couple millimeters of movement prevents the book from being able to cause meaningful damage. My box of LI has a full ~25mm gap between the height of the sprues and the box lid, which is enough distance for both the sprues and the book to move and pick up enough momentum to break or dislodge parts. I don't even think a set of 4 kratos would have been enough to fix that, I think it needed the kratos AND a couple sets of terrain sprues to fill in the volume.

A full inch gap is pretty crazy, GW surely has access to a thinner box of the same footprint. It's uncharacteristically wasteful of transport and shelf space too. This release seems to have odd problems in aspects GW normally does well. Do we know if boxes had to just be opened to swap books or were the boxes themselves reprinted too?

I don't think we really know for sure but there's nothing to indicate the boxes were reprinted atm

wondering if the initial plan was to have more in the box? but would have been something not printed on the box which is weird

that or this is a standard size box their packing stuff works well with so the space is "acceptable", it is very strange though. I mean even a bit of card as a spacer would have worked

Perhaps the old rule book was a slightly different size and was made with a custom card insert into a standard box. Then when the new ones were ordered the books were a slightly different size and GW didn't have a perfect fitting card insert ready to go?

I can't imagine GW wanted to reprint everything and the book size change might even have been one of those things that happened without them quite knowing it was happening; or was a rush job and thus they didn't have a choice etc....