Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Tolkien influence is indirect in two ways.

First, as has been pointed out, the immediate influence was D&D and other properties that were, themselves, influenced by LOTR. That doesn't mean Tolkein had influence, it's just that other creators did too. (If your band is influenced by Led Zepplin, guess what: you're influenced by the blues!)

Second, the reality was that GW/Citadel in the last 80s had a very small range of sci models, but a pretty huge range of fantasy models that could be converted to sci-fi models. Clearly, some of the converstions stuck (Orks and Eldar), so faded into the background (Ratlings/Ogres), and dwarves famously disappeared completely for decades.

I will say, the more I think about it, the more the Tolkien influence is pretty small and second hand. Tolkien's themes of Duty, good vs. evil, and the power of mercy and kindness really don't meld with 40k. In many ways, 40k is a direct rejection or even mirror version of LOTR. There is no hope, there is no room for mercy or pity. 40k is clearly shaped by LOTR, and might in some ways be a response to it, but the lineage is complicated.

Anyways, my favorite influence to point out for 40k is Paradise Lost, which was clearly the jumping off point for the Horus Heresy early on.

To an extent, for sure. More so on Dune, and more indirect with Tolkien as has been explained.

But a stronger description of the setting that is widely available to a greater audience would be Star Wars meets Mad Max.

More like Warhammer Fantasy crossed with Dune and 2000AD comics.

I think the fact that there are clearly a half dozen or more influences means it's really hard to boil it down super easily. It's also one reason the background is so interesting.

 Polonius wrote:
The Tolkien influence is indirect in two ways.

First, as has been pointed out, the immediate influence was D&D and other properties that were, themselves, influenced by LOTR. That doesn't mean Tolkein had influence, it's just that other creators did too. (If your band is influenced by Led Zepplin, guess what: you're influenced by the blues!)

Second, the reality was that GW/Citadel in the last 80s had a very small range of sci models, but a pretty huge range of fantasy models that could be converted to sci-fi models. Clearly, some of the converstions stuck (Orks and Eldar), so faded into the background (Ratlings/Ogres), and dwarves famously disappeared completely for decades.

I will say, the more I think about it, the more the Tolkien influence is pretty small and second hand. Tolkien's themes of Duty, good vs. evil, and the power of mercy and kindness really don't meld with 40k. In many ways, 40k is a direct rejection or even mirror version of LOTR. There is no hope, there is no room for mercy or pity. 40k is clearly shaped by LOTR, and might in some ways be a response to it, but the lineage is complicated.

Anyways, my favorite influence to point out for 40k is Paradise Lost, which was clearly the jumping off point for the Horus Heresy early on.

Eldar? And everything else that sounds like it will pulled from the Simarillion and not D&D.

 Adeptekon wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
The Tolkien influence is indirect in two ways.

First, as has been pointed out, the immediate influence was D&D and other properties that were, themselves, influenced by LOTR. That doesn't mean Tolkein had influence, it's just that other creators did too. (If your band is influenced by Led Zepplin, guess what: you're influenced by the blues!)

Second, the reality was that GW/Citadel in the last 80s had a very small range of sci models, but a pretty huge range of fantasy models that could be converted to sci-fi models. Clearly, some of the converstions stuck (Orks and Eldar), so faded into the background (Ratlings/Ogres), and dwarves famously disappeared completely for decades.

I will say, the more I think about it, the more the Tolkien influence is pretty small and second hand. Tolkien's themes of Duty, good vs. evil, and the power of mercy and kindness really don't meld with 40k. In many ways, 40k is a direct rejection or even mirror version of LOTR. There is no hope, there is no room for mercy or pity. 40k is clearly shaped by LOTR, and might in some ways be a response to it, but the lineage is complicated.

Anyways, my favorite influence to point out for 40k is Paradise Lost, which was clearly the jumping off point for the Horus Heresy early on.

Eldar? And everything else that sounds like it will pulled from the Simarillion and not D&D.

Though I love the old TSR stuff, its hard to argue that WH and 40k don't have more depth. Yes, a lot of GW stuff draws from the Silmarillion pretty heavily, IMHO. As to modern WOTC, well, let's just be charitable and say that depth is slightly lacking

I didn't mean depth par sae, just that they went with what sounded cool.