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It is released and at first glance, Deathwing armies lost the important rule of can only be wounded on 4, 5, 6.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/?s=Balance+Dataslate+

Glad to see Genestealer Cults get a little bit of an objective tweak without nerfing them into the ground. I am not convinced that they would actually be doing that well if they were more widely played anyway, and less high skilled players will struggle by further nerfs on a very high skill army as is.

Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

I'm fairly sure you're wrong on DA. They still have tons of tools. Most of the changes in the slate make sense. At the same time I'm not really stressed over changes that will last 2 months.

On 10th - jury will be out for a while. The launch will certainly be chaotic.

As a DA player, I'm happy the deathwing transhuman is gone.

It was so broken if you ran full Deathwing lists. I could literally run my Deathwing into anything and not care.

A Bloodthirster ran into my Freeblade Knight paladin and took it out in one combat.

The same bloodthirster consolidate dinto my Deathwing Knights, where for two turns it killed 2 models and they killed it in return from full health.

They will flavour up deathwing again in 10th, not like its ages away.

It just means more greenwing and ravenwing will see the table thats all. which I am on board with.

So Inner Circle now has a negative, but no real positive? That’s cool.
At least drop it to baby transhuman, instead of an all out nerf. I assume at this point the design team don’t give a damn as they’re just thinking about 10th edition.

 bullyboy wrote:
So Inner Circle now has a negative, but no real positive? That’s cool.
At least drop it to baby transhuman, instead of an all out nerf. I assume at this point the design team don’t give a damn as they’re just thinking about 10th edition.

That is how it feels. It was, perhaps, the defining element of Deathwing armies through 9th Ed and they just remove with a single line.

It would be like removing the Harlies invul instead of what they did with the last dataslate (reducing it).

Ah well.

Yeah, I get that all army transhuman for free is pretty dumb, especially at their current price point, but just flat out removing it and giving nothing in return is pretty bad.

Never chase the meta whale boys, you only get burned.

Meh, there are those of us who have loved Deathwing since
An early age. It’s really no big deal as GW is just being GW. The thing is I don’t want a unit of terminators that are incentivized to add thunder hammers and storm shields. I usually took one for every 5 terms, with one heavy weapon and the usual smatter of SB and powerfists.
I wonder how the army will still play, not that I’d probably get to field them versus anyone before 10th anyway (playing a boarding action campaign currently).

Hey, look at that, the dumb Tyranid rules were removed. Well most of them. The Spore Mine one is still there, but Adaptive Physiology is... well.. adaptive, once again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey, look at that, the dumb Tyranid rules were removed. Well most of them. The Spore Mine one is still there, but Adaptive Physiology is... well.. adaptive, once again.

But they removed tyranid transhuman right? RIGHT??

 bullyboy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey, look at that, the dumb Tyranid rules were removed. Well most of them. The Spore Mine one is still there, but Adaptive Physiology is... well.. adaptive, once again.

But they removed tyranid transhuman right? RIGHT??

What is even your point? the Leviathan nerf is still there.

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

It was fine up until they dropped the points. Since this isn't a 6 month update they don't touch points so the only way to rectify the issue is to strip it.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

Right, because we saw so many Imperial armies take terminators this edition, right? Iron Hands, nope. Ultras, nope. Fists, nope. Blood Angels, nope. Raven Guard, nooe. Space Wolves, nope. Etc, etc.
Deathwing were the only reason we even saw Space Marine terminators this edition (maybe some Black Templars). The rule is oppressive en masse, but it doesn’t mean you nuke the entire build, when a modest change would have been enough. The win rate also only was a problem when GW was dumb enough to give free wargear to all marine units. Another case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

So I guess the only thing holding thousand sons to the bottom of the win percentage list was a few secondaries? They really don't give two craps about TS do they.

As this is the last data sheet and it is only going to last like 2 months, they should have just tweaked a few secondaries and then removed all of the restrictions on all armies and just let all the 9th books fight each other in their full glory.

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

Right, because we saw so many Imperial armies take terminators this edition, right? Iron Hands, nope. Ultras, nope. Fists, nope. Blood Angels, nope. Raven Guard, nooe. Space Wolves, nope. Etc, etc.

And none of them should gain a permanent Trashuman either. What's your point?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

Right, because we saw so many Imperial armies take terminators this edition, right? Iron Hands, nope. Ultras, nope. Fists, nope. Blood Angels, nope. Raven Guard, nooe. Space Wolves, nope. Etc, etc.

And none of them should gain a permanent Trashuman either. What's your point?

Point is there are far more egregious rules in 9th, why you so butt hurt about this one? Until recent, DA win rates were not crazy high.

Lol, deathwatch stay fethed over it seems.

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

Right, because we saw so many Imperial armies take terminators this edition, right? Iron Hands, nope. Ultras, nope. Fists, nope. Blood Angels, nope. Raven Guard, nooe. Space Wolves, nope. Etc, etc.

And none of them should gain a permanent Trashuman either. What's your point?

Point is there are far more egregious rules in 9th, why you so butt hurt about this one? Until recent, DA win rates were not crazy high.

Guess it's op stuff irritates more when it's on opponent side while op is fine when on own army

Guess we know why you so vehemently defend them while happy to leave other terminators behind

 xeen wrote:
So I guess the only thing holding thousand sons to the bottom of the win percentage list was a few secondaries? They really don't give two craps about TS do they.

As this is the last data sheet and it is only going to last like 2 months, they should have just tweaked a few secondaries and then removed all of the restrictions on all armies and just let all the 9th books fight each other in their full glory.

Given that points are off the table I'm not sure what they would do for rules other than maybe giving them AoC back. Oh well...10th here we come.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 xeen wrote:
So I guess the only thing holding thousand sons to the bottom of the win percentage list was a few secondaries? They really don't give two craps about TS do they.

As this is the last data sheet and it is only going to last like 2 months, they should have just tweaked a few secondaries and then removed all of the restrictions on all armies and just let all the 9th books fight each other in their full glory.

Given that points are off the table I'm not sure what they would do for rules other than maybe giving them AoC back. Oh well...10th here we come.

Yea, something like giving all the core units mark of tzeentch from CSM probably would have helped. Maybe increasing the number of cabal points generated by units so you could use more of them, or allowing us to cast the cult power multiple times with escalating cost like GK can with their powers.

The group I play with uses tempest cards, so this did not affect the way I play at all.

But I, digress, bring on 10th.

tneva82 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not that it really matters at this point, but removing transhuman from Deathwing is an issue for the nothing but TH/SS builds. Those who didn’t run it that way will definitely not be able to play effectively anymore. Another example of GW not knowing what broke the system.
This is why I have zero faith they can make a balanced 10th edition.

No, Dark Angels shouldn't have had that rule to begin with. Good riddance.

Right, because we saw so many Imperial armies take terminators this edition, right? Iron Hands, nope. Ultras, nope. Fists, nope. Blood Angels, nope. Raven Guard, nooe. Space Wolves, nope. Etc, etc.

And none of them should gain a permanent Trashuman either. What's your point?

Point is there are far more egregious rules in 9th, why you so butt hurt about this one? Until recent, DA win rates were not crazy high.

Guess it's op stuff irritates more when it's on opponent side while op is fine when on own army

Guess we know why you so vehemently defend them while happy to leave other terminators behind

Actually the opposite. When codex dropped I stated all terminators should have the rule as they finally felt as tough as represented in lore. And to be fair, Dark Angels is only one of many armies I play in 40K.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Lol, deathwatch stay fethed over it seems.

Actually no, they now get to be in whatever doctrine they want, whenever they want. I think their secondary got better too. Not sure it's enough to help them at this point, but it's something.

No nerfs to Squats? Yeesh.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
No nerfs to Squats? Yeesh.

Haven't they taken enough of a nerf-based kicking since they came out?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
No nerfs to Squats? Yeesh.

Haven't they taken enough of a nerf-based kicking since they came out?

::Looks at Squat Berzerkers:: No.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
No nerfs to Squats? Yeesh.

Haven't they taken enough of a nerf-based kicking since they came out?

::Looks at Squat Berzerkers:: No.

Let's not forget about land fortresses

Oh gods. It's only going to be a problem for about two more months. Give the Squats a break already.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Lol, deathwatch stay fethed over it seems.

Actually no, they now get to be in whatever doctrine they want, whenever they want. I think their secondary got better too. Not sure it's enough to help them at this point, but it's something.

I mean, if you’re like me and like playing home missions without secondaries, there’s literally like kinda nothin goin on for em. We can’t really benefit as much as others from just staying in devastator the whole time, and other marines do melee better.