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Salutations; now that the dust has a bit settled around Warhammerfest, in my opinion it is apparent that the event was not without its problems, and that seems to be a conclusion that other people came to as well. In this thread, we'll look at some of the experiences that were had over the weekend, and comment on them.

Now, the first experience we'll examine is that of Youtuber Chaptermaster Valrak - usually a person that is very enthusiastic about GW and GW products, he lays into them pretty heavily this time around:




He makes it pretty clear that he had been gifted the 1500 ticket by his community, and thus access to some 'exclusive' area and the possibility to jump queues, which he did not because he was there with friends that had no such privilege, and didn't want to ditch them. His key takeaways are:

- Queues were really, really bad
- The event area was set up in a nonsensical way that left areas too crowded while others were empty
- There was not much to do unless you had all sorts of additional tickets
- Areas with stuff people actually wanted to see were so crowded that it was almost impossible
- Store area was badly set up, and it was apparently easy to shoplift
- Everything hinged on event staff that was doing their best, but were under no functional oversight and coordination, resulting in a 'shambolic' event overall

His summary is about as damning as it can get from a loyal customer: the event was bad, it was boring, he would not go there again, even for free, if it will not improve drastically, and actually left the event for significant amounts of time to go to a pub with his friends instead.

In the interest of fairness he mentions that the goody bags at his ticket level were very good, the staff was doing their very best and were friendly and helpful, and the venue was well-equipped and clean.

This is the experience of a paying customer with a VIP pass - Valrak also was granted a Content Creator Pass, but was too lazy to pick it up.

The second experience is that of Youtuber Arbitor Ian:




Ian purchased a standard ticket, and added some tournament tickets as well. He also got a Industry Admission Pass and actually picked it up. His key takeaways mirror Valrak's pretty closely:

- The venue itself was adequate and fine, with ample food, facilities, entry and exit, clean toilets and such
- Queues were bad and getting worse
- Areas people were interested in like the Golden Demon cabinets etc. were hard to access because they were so cramped
- Tournament areas were too large and took away space that could have been used better
- For people that had not purchased additional tickets for side-events like Tournaments or Masterclasses, there was little to actually do
- He noted the absence of demo games for anything but 40k, the absence of Black Library, 'meet the authors'-style events and other things of the sort we knew from previous events
- He found it a shame that the auditorium the previews were held in could not allow that many people to enter, and the screens outside that showed the seminar were very small

Coming from the event organization line of work himself, he has a couple of suggestions for improvement:

- Do the tournaments at a separate location to free up space
- Use that space to do more demo games for other systems, and put more screens up to make the live reveals accessible to anybody
- Bring more creatives, authors etc. in an run some more in-depth seminars or even just have them there to sign stuff and chat with people
- Have more demos for the system everybody wants to try, four tables for 40k was too little
- He also remarked that it was a bit cheap of them to have no goodie bags for people that bought tournament tickets etc. like other organizers have
- He then said that communication should improve, and tell people more clearly that they should book some classes and such if they plan to make it a three-day event, as there is too little to do for them otherwise

This is the experience of an industry insider that bought a normal ticket and tournament tickets in addition to his (free) Industry Pass.

The penultimate experience is that of Louise Sugden, who was a GW employee until recently and now has her own company Rogue Hobbies:




Louise bought a normal ticket and then had some problem with the additional ticket necessary to enter the Golden Demon competition, which GW was able to resolve, and which also led to her normal ticket being upgraded to a premium ticket free of charge.

Louise had a very enjoyable experience, mostly (as she described it) because she had the good fortune to get the ticket upgrade and accomodation for free, and really enjoyed having her first Warhammer convention experience as a customer instead as part of the event team. She enjoyed the goodie back that was part of her upgraded ticket, and found the event pretty packed and exciting, mostly because she met a lot of people she knew from her time at GW, and was also roped into cosplaying a sister of battle by an acquaintance, which took the better part of an afternoon. Her critical remarks go into the same general direction as the others:

- massive queues, to the point that she skipped things she wanted to do because the queues made it not worth the time
- little to do for people that had no extra tickets/activities booked (of which she effectively had two now with the cosplay)
- she also noted the lack of creators, authors, Black Library in general and such

Interestingly, Louise ran a little poll among her instagram followers, askin about their enjoyment of the event - the outcome was that it was a pretty even split of 44% that enjoyed it, 7% that did not enjoy it at all, and 49% that answered 'It was fun, but there was not much to do' with about 1500 participants. Many people also used that opportunity to comment that they'd love to meet the studio staff, see sketches, design work and such, talk to authors and creatives, and have more panels in general.

Naturally following from that, Louises suggestions for improvement involve:

- adding more demo tables for the thing everybody wants to try out, but also for other games
- adding a booth/corner for the design studio and BL, so that people could talk to them, get books signed and so on
- adding more and longer in-depth seminars and panels, Old World Q&A and such
- she presents the floor plan of Warhammerfest 2018 as a positive example (added here for your convenience)
- keeping the licensees and third-party products, even expanding their presence, because she finds that they add much to the event



Her final summary is that they should probably look for a venue that has a layout that is better suited for their specific needs, i.e. with bigger auditoria, and give the customers more opportunities to do stuff and engage more with the event. She says having no demos for games but 40k was a missed marketing opportunity. She said she came out of the event extremely happy, but hers was not a typical experience due to her background.

This is the experience of an ex-GW insider that is still friends with a lot of people from that time and pretty well-known in the larger community.

Finally, my own experience.

I bought no tickets, and followed the events exclusively online, because i do not live in England and travel&accomodation costs, as well as the necessary time for travel, would have made attending impractical. Thus, i can naturally only comment on the aspects of the event that were presented online.

I'll keep it short:

- the panels were mostly adequate, but it was a shame that the Q&A sessions were not streamed; that information now slowly trickles into the community anyway, but likely in a somewhat distorted way
- the LotR panel was a total miss, they should just have unscheduled that and put something else there instead
- on the other hand, not having a Black Library panel was unexpected, and dumb - they could easily have filled a time slot with that, preferably that of the LotR panel
- on a positive note, the roadmaps for each setting are a great thing to have, it gives people stuff to look forward to and a reassurance that their favourite system is not left to wither and die
- them filling time between panels with 'battle reports' and table views from the tournament section was a fine stop-gap, but they could do better in the future

In general, they still seem to regard their online presence / streaming as secondary to the actual event, which is fine, but they could do much, much better - they still seem to be in denial about how much reach they're effectively wasting by putting in some random overhead cameras of gaming tables where they could have great content with a minimum of effort. Get yourself some dude to walk around the actual event and talk to people (he can wear a sack over the head if you're afraid he'll get too famous) - from the online perspective, all the third-party RPG people and video game booths did basically not exist, at least interview them, or give them their own panel, and stream that as well. A thirty-minute stream of e.g. artwork and sketches from the Imperium Maledictum guys with some designer commentary would have been an amazing filler! Or do some light deathmatch in one of the upcoming PC games and stream that, the opportunities (for cross-selling) are endless. In general, spotlight some of the Warhammer stuff that is not GW a bit more, it would make a much more rounded presentation. The Warhammer 40k preview was watched by over 300.000 people on twitch, thats thirty times the number of visitors at the venue and fifty times the maximum allowance for the auditorium. The other streams still caught a respectable 30.000 (for AOS) and 15.000 (for HH and TOW), ideally you'd want to keep these viewers and interest them in things you or your licenseholders have on offer.

This is the experience of a no-good freeloader that likes to criticize things that were offered to him for free

Well, anyway, what do you think of that, and what was your own experience, if you had any?

I didn’t go this year, but will chip in with some historical context via opinion and experience.

Going back to previous Warhammerfests and Games Days? The queues have always been long.

I worked the retail stand for a couple of Games Days many moons ago (still got my 2003 Staff “Cadian Veteran” T-shirt!) and it was…pretty anarchic. The best you could hope for was to try to spot people ready to pay, and remember faces in case anyone was being overlooked.

I did a shopping specific trip to Warhammerfest in the early days of the Loot Group, which of course involved me being in the queue for most of the day. That felt…better. I’m not sure if that was Warm And Fuzzy “I’m helping people!” feels kicking in, but I can’t deny having a sense of purpose often helps the tolerance levels.

At displays, there was always someone with a Flipping Massive Rucksack getting in everyone’s way, or folk staring at the one cabinet for a really long time, preventing others from seeing.

Worse, and a personal pet peeve, was getting stuck behind a Stinky Git in a queue. One sticks in the mind, and the nostrils. Such an indelible memory has lasted a shockingly long time. Because we were waiting to see the then new 3rd Ed Tyranids, specifically the new and mysterious Raveners. Guy in front of me stank. Not just a bit of BO. That I can kind of understand. First, I acknowledge not everyone can use deodorant. Second, I acknowledge not all deodorants are equal. So I can tolerate some folk getting whiffier than others of the course of a day. But this guy stank of stale urine. Like he hadn’t changed his undies or hideous, stained jogging bottoms, possibly since the onset of puberty.

Q&As were for me, historically marred by pointless questions. Such as asking the design studio about pricing. Being told in the preamble Squats weren’t returning, only for two folk to ask “am Squats coming back. A more interesting question being asked, only for someone to ask the same thing in slightly different wording.

I did prefer Games Days overall, because the Stores would club together in a region to produce something interesting game or display wise. Plus youthful memories of early morning coach trips to Nottingham with your mates, all off to do something greatly enjoyable. That adds undeniable Rose Tinteds. Except that one trip, where we shared with two other stores, one of who’s customers was a boring blowhard constantly banging on about his upcoming FLGS was just going to poach all GA’s customers because he understood retail better (spoiler, maybe 18 months later said store had opened, and vanished without a trace).

Now I’m in my 40’s? I’m really not sure I can be bothered with such events. I prefer a more leisurely pace in life, and I know modern experiences will simply be different to those when I was a youth. That’s just how life is.

Overall? I think I’d prefer to take my mates to Warhammer World and indeed Nottingham for a Lads Weekend. We can drive up the Friday, check into our rooms. Do WHW on the Saturday (ideally not on an event day, but would depend on the event), another overnight stay then home on the Sunday.

Open Days are also more my jam. They’re quieter and less cramped.

Though last year, I took umbrage at the cosplayers when I went to WHW to Loot their anniversary. The costumes were great, but on opening, they tried to form a sort of honour guard, and only succeeded in preventing people moving smoothly from the shop area to the gaming area. I’m not claiming it was done out of malice or ego or anything. But it was inconvenient and annoying.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Open Days are also more my jam. They’re quieter and less cramped.

Though last year, I took umbrage at the cosplayers when I went to WHW to Loot their anniversary. The costumes were great, but on opening, they tried to form a sort of honour guard, and only succeeded in preventing people moving smoothly from the shop area to the gaming area. I’m not claiming it was done out of malice or ego or anything. But it was inconvenient and annoying.

I feel you there, it's no denying that the old grey mare ain't what it used to be, and that leaving the hustle and bustle to the young'uns and whippersnappers gets more attractive every year If that trend continues, we'll all play Inquisition-themed cribbage or greenskin canasta in a few years

If you watched Louise's video (you should, it's insightful and... sprightly?) you'll find that they did the obstructive cosplay parade at WHF as well, which she described as 'something like a Warhammer-themed wedding'

At least it sounded like the cosplay parade was organised at WHF, though - sounds like at the event MDG is talking about, it wasn't planned and therefore caused problems.

I can get that they might want the Q&As to be something for the people at the event on the day, but there's no real reason not to record them, maybe trim out repeated or pointless questions (if there are any), then post them to YouTube over the following week(s).

Eh. Time was it was goons like me taking snaps, sharing them on our Forum of the day (BoLS, for my sins), having those photos shared around (and in the case of Spikeybits, attributed to someone else) and reporting back as accurately as we could, whilst Goon Squad Members did their best to say “nuh-uh”, claiming to have been there and spoken to the same Design Studio members, only to be exposed by like, evidence.

Best example of this for me was when IA:13 was coming up, and I bagged an early copy ar (possibly the first?) Warhammerfest. I was popular boy that day online, as having done what I wanted to do Fest wise, I was able to sit down for a couple of hours and share info on the book. Highlight of that was the Dreadnought that when destroyed had a chance of turning into a Daemon Prince. Of course I shared no specific photos, but I like the fact I may be the original source of all (entirely justified) Hype for IA:13

Now? Us non-attendees get to see the previews at the same time, due to magic of t’internet.

The Q&As probably can’t be aired in the same way, and a chunk of their appeal is hoping your question is addressed.

Yup, been there, done that, back when I had my own site to report things on - probably talking 04/05 sort of time? Shame I messed up on renewing the domain, really, so I lost ownership of it - if I'd kept it, and been able to carry on, who knows how things would now be different.

I think part of the problem with streaming the Q&A is that you need to get people's consent to record and stream them asking the question (which you don't need for just some panoramic or indicidental shots of the whole auditorium) which in practice usually means giving out (free) tickets with Terms&Conditions on them or having people sign consent slips before entering. Not something that is a big problem, but it takes time and a few staff-hours to manage all that, so they might have decided that it is not worth the hassle, or they're being overly cautious and don't do it out of an abundance of caution. There's also other possible problems like hecklers etc., but these are easily solved by having the stream on a 5-minute delay or something like that, so you can go 'technical difficulties' if someone starts berating people or ranting about alternative systems.

Though having said all that? If you get the chance to go to any Wargaming Expo, whether GW or other?

I say do it. Even when they’re a mild let down, they’re still a day out like no other for the Nerd at Heart.

I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Isn’t that Adepticon by another name?

Not meant to be a cheeky comment.

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Part of the supposed "allure" of Warhammerfest is that it's held at Warhammer World. Without that location in NA? It's not happening, sadly.
Frankly, I'd settle for them making it so that their actual retail stores got to have access to the event models for the duration of Warhammerfest here in the US.


My own thoughts on WHF this year:
We had some good previews and some bad ones. The Lord of the Rings preview was just bad. I get that they can't control licensing partners, but was there really nothing else to show off than that one diorama? From FW no less?

WarCry was a mixed bag. We know the starter set because of it having been sold to someone. Would have been nice to just acknowledge it and move on, not pretending it's a big secret.

The Horus Heresy seminar was, oddly, the one I thought that was handled best. I loved that the roadmap broke down resin and plastic releases. I could have lived without "mystery army release" and instead would have liked a dedicated commitment to one faction, but it might simply be that things are still up in the air in regards to which faction is getting the "mystery army release" slot.

Kill Team was fairly hefty, but that "preview" at the end was a big ol' nothingburger better served to their winter events than something like this.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Isn’t that Adepticon by another name?

Not meant to be a cheeky comment.

I would say no, as Adepticon has two factors that probably make it distinct, especially in GW's eyes:

- it is organized by people that are not in the employ or beholden to GW in any way, so GW can't really call the shots like they can in their own events
- as a consequence, GW is not the only major player at the convention, and has to 'suffer' the presence of third-party manufacturers, including direct competitors

Adepticon is also much more gaming- and hobby-focused and has tons and tons of activities, seminars and participation games organized by third parties - this year they had over 650 slots for activities to book from, compared to the ~ two dozen at Warhammerfest.

Just a totally different setup. GW likes to use Adepticon at their convenience to have large reveals, and no organizer that has his wits about him would say no to that because it gives you huge amounts of free publicity, but it's not one of the events where GW has iron-fisted message control and calls the shots.

That being said, in my opinion glomming onto some sort of established tournament or con and doing 'Warhammerfest at XY-con' is the right thing to do for the continental US - due to the huge distances involved and the much more aggravating and expensive travel that entails, 'just' Warhammefest is not worth it for the participants - there's too little to do for that amount of money. You'd either need to do at least two fest (East and West coast) and would still risk disappointing people greatly.

Voted mediocre, but watched online.

Once again the abscence of any AT and AI content is tiresome and a vague trailer for what may or may not be Epic 30K, feels like more mucking about.

Otherwise, the announcement of the plastic Cerastus Lancer and 40K's new update of the Screamer Killer blew my socks off.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Part of the supposed "allure" of Warhammerfest is that it's held at Warhammer World.

Not true, at least not this year - it was held at an event venue in Manchester, rather than at WW. Haven't been paying attention to where(/if?) it was held over the last few years to say whether the Warhammer World location was a trend before.

WHW hasn't been the venue for these events for quite a few years now, it's just too small a location to hold stuff like that.

I've seen Louise's video on the matter, it was well informed and she made great points on the pros and cons, plus some excellent disclaimers on her end.

Lack of a BL panel is sad but there isn't really a big thing going on there to hype about. Siege of Terra is coming to an end and well, the Dawn of Fire series does not hold the hype GW wants to believe it has.

Streamed events could've also been done better, YMMV obviously, but it felt very lacklustre and meagre.

And another +1 for making event only models more readily accessible to those who do not live near to event locations, or in places where events are not held at all.

Just watched it online and it was kind of ok, with the bad thing that the stuff I was interested in was not streamed (TOW Q&A)

what I heard from others matches the videos above
someone on a hobby discord who bought a daily ticket to see the new 40k, needed to watch the stream on his phone and left after 2 hours as there were 4+hour queues for the demo tables
another video I have seen mentioned there were only 5 demo tables for several thousand people and you were allowed to play a single phase together with others once you made it

also the conclusion of any video I have seen was that there was nothing to do but waiting if you were not playing the tournament

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Part of the supposed "allure" of Warhammerfest is that it's held at Warhammer World.

Not true, at least not this year - it was held at an event venue in Manchester, rather than at WW. Haven't been paying attention to where(/if?) it was held over the last few years to say whether the Warhammer World location was a trend before.

Huh. I thought it was at WHW for some reason.

Either way, it's not a thing that I personally feel works well for North America.

It apparently was held in North America before, no idea where.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I hope they have it somewhere close in North America next time.

Part of the supposed "allure" of Warhammerfest is that it's held at Warhammer World.

Not true, at least not this year - it was held at an event venue in Manchester, rather than at WW. Haven't been paying attention to where(/if?) it was held over the last few years to say whether the Warhammer World location was a trend before.

Huh. I thought it was at WHW for some reason.

Either way, it's not a thing that I personally feel works well for North America.

The various open days are usually held at WHW, you're probably mixing that up somehow.

 Adeptekon wrote:
It apparently was held in North America before, no idea where.

Wasn’t Games Day held in Baltimore?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
It apparently was held in North America before, no idea where.

Wasn’t Games Day held in Baltimore?

Until 2010, then Chicago. Not the worst spot really, it gets one large population center of the US and is accessible from a lot more.

Regarding the comments about lack of 40K demo tables... are there likely to be any people there who aren't already familiar with how 40K plays?

It might make sense if they were doing a 10th Edition preview, but otherwise it just seems like a wasted space.

Having some smaller tables with some starter sets for people to play to provide something to *do* might have worked better.



I haven't been to a Games Day for a while, but my memory of it was pretty much just a huge shopping experience with some display tables, whereas my experience of other events have been loads of demo tables with some sales on the periphery.

But then I don't entirely understand the point in travelling to a show to buy stuff at RRP when I could get it any time. It's different for Forgeworld and exclusives, but the rest seems kind of redundant from my perspective especially since I'd need to carry it around afterwards and get it home.

it was all about the 10th Edition preview, not regular 40k

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
It apparently was held in North America before, no idea where.

Wasn’t Games Day held in Baltimore?

Until 2010, then Chicago. Not the worst spot really, it gets one large population center of the US and is accessible from a lot more.

Do you know where they held it in Chicago?

 Adeptekon wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
It apparently was held in North America before, no idea where.

Wasn’t Games Day held in Baltimore?

Until 2010, then Chicago. Not the worst spot really, it gets one large population center of the US and is accessible from a lot more.

Do you know where they held it in Chicago?

Apparently in something called the 'Donald E. Stephens convention center'. In Rosemont, Illinois actually, not Chicago proper.

I wonder if the crowd was comparable.

The general consensus seems to be about 10k people attending on Saturday.

Adeptekon wrote:I wonder if the crowd was comparable.

Gert wrote:The general consensus seems to be about 10k people attending on Saturday.

You can find older articles about the US Games Days that talk about 6000 people being in attendance at once in Chicago, before they switched to Baltimore because the Chicago venue was getting too small, so the amount of visitors seems to have been at least in the same ballpark.

So how do we they decide where it is held each year? Is there a lottery or rotation? or just wherever GW wants?

 Adeptekon wrote:
So how do we they decide where it is held each year? Is there a lottery or rotation? or just wherever GW wants?

Probably how you do any event at that size: you'll pick a rough estimate of were you want to go (i.e. one year east coast, one year west coast etc.) and a prospective date, make up a list of non-negotiable things you need to have (certain size, accessibility by various modes of travel, other requirements like e.g. auditorium etc.), consult a list of potential venues that have that (such lists can be obtained from various organizations, like consultants, event planning agencies, chambers of commerce etc.), pick a long-ish list of venues you would consider, do some research on them an check general availability (other events might already be booked, venues closed for maintenance etc., closed forever since you last checked etc.), eliminate some and compose a shortlist, then you'll ask for offers/packages from these venues, and finally hopefully select one that has adequate facilities and an acceptable price point. For venues at the size we're talking about here, you're looking at at least a year of advance work, probably more, because with one year your options will already be constrained by pre-existing agreements. Usually, companies like to stick with venues they have booked before as much as possible and secure them years in advance because all of this is a huge hassle and expensive. On the other hand, venues also like to have their calendars filled well in advance, as that gives them financial security and allows for non-intrusive planning of regular maintenance and so on. Changing venues is thus something nobody really wants, and that you only do if forced by the circumstances, for example if you grew beyond what one venue could accomodate or if your usual spot closes down.

WarhammerFest/Games Day etc. is still squarely the 'medium' category for such events - they need a big-ish event venue, but they're not so big that they start to worry about organizing traffic (i.e. shuttle buses and such), arranging convention deals with local hotels, cooperation with local authorities and so on. Really large conventions have all sorts of additional problems which involve additional parties, at which point managing that convention effectively becomes its own enterprise that basically works year-round and usually more than a year in advance because the ride of arranging sponsors, exhibitors, panelists and so on just never stops if you manage to get that big.

The most impressive example i can think of where people did just that is PAX, which started as a fan meetup organized by the creators of a webcomic in 2004 and grew to two conferences (east and west cost) that had over 70.000 visitors each in 2013. Before Corona hit, they'd expanded to four annual conventions in the US, plus one in Australia, and are effectively the largest gaming convention in the USA that hosts both classic tabletop games and computer games. Needless to say, they now make a pretty penny in merch and marketing...