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10 boyz is the most expensive unit that should be in BW with Ghazz and BB. nothing better. Grots are maxbe better.

You want an Ard case so no shooting platform and BW will unevitable be blowen to pieces T1 or T2. Definitely before you disembark. And let 20p models die for emergency disembark is not a great idea….

I have a very paintfull memory from some tournament some time ago. Ghazzy and 3 MANz ride BW with 10 grots. Guess who survived… just Ghazzy and one MAN….


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Betting on a single transport is definitely a bad gameplan. In 9th I crippled some hummie with huge transportships full of super cool dreadnougjts and some juicy characters. He moved foraward to drop in the middle. I “sacrificied” all speedfreak army and surrounded it so that he was no able to disembark a single model a around 800p of his army was dead T1

He was not the sharpest pencil, he finished last on the tournament, but the point is still valid I guess…

 Tomsug wrote:

5. Splitting Kommandos has an issue. What about the Bomb squig and distraction grot? There are 3 options - you have to assignem them to one of the smaller units, you do not have to assign them and any of the new smaller units can use it (they are just tokens) or you get more grots and squigs for free (hahaha…).

This has been FAQ'd pretty heavily already with Sisters. The long and short is you don't get more of things, you just choose which units they are assigned to.

 Forceride wrote:


That's fine they did do some work in melee but i need some reliable shooting, stealth makes them wiff.

I agree, they don't hit mega-hard but they do do enough damage that they can contribute. 18 attacks at 3+/5/0/1 is pretty nice chaff clear and then they get their shooting on top. They also get their MW ability which is free chip on something durable. Don't get me wrong though, I'm never taking Deffkoptas for their damage output as they're hit and miss unless they're clearing screens.

I take Deffkoptas if I was already going to take Stormboys and have the 15 points free. I can't argue with the increase in bulk you get for the cheap points hike.

Regarding the Ghazzy and BW capacity…

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Forceride wrote:


That's fine they did do some work in melee but i need some reliable shooting, stealth makes them wiff.

I agree, they don't hit mega-hard but they do do enough damage that they can contribute. 18 attacks at 3+/5/0/1 is pretty nice chaff clear and then they get their shooting on top. They also get their MW ability which is free chip on something durable. Don't get me wrong though, I'm never taking Deffkoptas for their damage output as they're hit and miss unless they're clearing screens.

I take Deffkoptas if I was already going to take Stormboys and have the 15 points free. I can't argue with the increase in bulk you get for the cheap points hike.

Agree mate, that was my take. But i am hurting for more reliable shotting with throw away bodies, been using truck full burnas but their getting expensive so i was looming something cheaper.

 Tomsug wrote:
Regarding the Ghazzy and BW capacity…

Yeah, this seemed quite clean. No confusion from me this time around.

wasnt there a FAQ that fixed that?

 Tomsug wrote:
10 boyz is the most expensive unit that should be in BW with Ghazz and BB. nothing better. Grots are maxbe better.

You want an Ard case so no shooting platform and BW will unevitable be blowen to pieces T1 or T2. Definitely before you disembark. And let 20p models die for emergency disembark is not a great idea….

I have a very paintfull memory from some tournament some time ago. Ghazzy and 3 MANz ride BW with 10 grots. Guess who survived… just Ghazzy and one MAN….


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Betting on a single transport is definitely a bad gameplan. In 9th I crippled some hummie with huge transportships full of super cool dreadnougjts and some juicy characters. He moved foraward to drop in the middle. I “sacrificied” all speedfreak army and surrounded it so that he was no able to disembark a single model a around 800p of his army was dead T1

He was not the sharpest pencil, he finished last on the tournament, but the point is still valid I guess…

For as long as the battlewagon existed, you always had to provide multiple valid targets in order for the strategy to work. A single wagon with something juicy never was a good idea. Luckily we got a bunch of shooty units in trukks and kill rigs to distract people from the boss wagon.
That's why I want to put Thrakka with nobz, he will be a pain to kill even after disembarking, and most guns good at killing them were probably used to pop the wagon. Which means you don't just have a fairly durable and killy unit left on the table, but your other stuff is still untouched. If you are afraid of losing models to vehicle destruction, you can either have them ride with burnas or just run 5 nobz with 10 gretchin.


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I envision a list like this:


If fethed up my math somewhere so it's slightly more than 2k, but you get the idea.

Edit: Found the mistake. It's lootas instead of burnas.

I guess it could work. I don't have the wagons. So i would like to see it how it plays. Hey Jidmah your going to give it a try or your still in to DG?

Probably not anytime soon, I'm still in the middle of a nachtmund campaign with my DG and the games on the side tend to be 1k games where a battlewagon with Ghaz is a bit too many points in one place

Jidmah

That was exactly my point. you need a redundacy and let the opponent choose himself to decide, which of the bulls horns hit him.

And to do so, you need points to pay for multiple dangerous packs, do not overpay on one wagon.

It is all the time the same no matter what edition

- 60% chance is not a plan, just a stupid speculation
- boyz over toys and have a cheaper tokens to trade. The game is for orks mostly about trading
- target oversaturation
- layerd targett oversaturation like you have in the list even better (kill the antiinfatry, before they kill your tanks and than have a infantry againts his antitank)
- variety of the weapons and be ready to krump the hord and the knights
- redundancy
- mobility,
- mobility
- mobility

Last 3 seems to be the same, but it is so much important imho, I wrote it there 3times. What can one achieve with a fast and cheap roadblocks people tend to underestimate. Gosh I was once beaten by some spanish profi necron player so so bad! That was a gaming lesson of my life.

That is btw. the reason why I do not trust the Walkers would be usefull as a concept for the whole army. Infantry could work. Trukks, wagons and buggies /bikers / koptas could.

But unless there will be a fast walkers, there would be no chance to build an army around them.

There is a rummour around, that orks should be an opening faction (with some hummies of course) of 11th ed.
If true than new models should be expected. And Walkers are very nice topic. Underdeveloped for very long long time. And as I write there since the end of 8th, their time will come sooner or later…

 Tomsug wrote:

There is a rummour around, that orks should be an opening faction (with some hummies of course) of 11th ed.
If true than new models should be expected. And Walkers are very nice topic. Underdeveloped for very long long time. And as I write there since the end of 8th, their time will come sooner or later…

I'd heard some time ago that Drukhari were going to be the big bad of the 11th release, and those rumours were about for ages before the Ork one appeared.

As much as I love my Orks and would love to see certain models get a facelift I think the spiky elves need the attention. Not sure how the old Drukhari rumours fit with the recently announced new models for them though, so maybe it is going to be Orks.

Might be a controversial take, but I think the Ork Walker models still hold up really well.

Agree. Most ork models are not going to improve, but get worse if updated, losing options, poses and potentially messing up unit composition just enough to force you to rebuy your units (see tankbustas).

Models which are often subject to criticism like MANz are neither old nor badly modeled, it's just that weird disconnect that some people playing orks somehow dislike the ork aestetics.

The one model that really needs an update is the stompa, and we all know that that's not going to happen.

Personally, I could imagine GW updating bunras/lootas, kanz or the trukk, but if they do, it's to reduce the number of sprues inside a box.

If the next release is just a plastic weird boy and Badrukk, there will be no complaints from me. Orks aren't lacking anything right now, besides some attention paid to their rules.

Honestly I'd rather have some rebel grot units than overhauls of existing ones.

The fact is, that in the last couple of years, we 've got:

Full new set of buggies and koptas incl. Wartrike char. So full speedfreak refresh.

Than we ' ve got brand new army tape - dynos - the whole range of infrantry, mounted and vehicles / transport + chars

Plus we've got most of out infantry brand new - boyz, kommandos, tankbustas, breacha boyz


We definitely do not suffer or need a new models. There is a bunch of other armies that needs refresh. So I agree we do not need it.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not nitpicking, I'm adding thoughts. I agree with your post in general.

 Tomsug wrote:
- 60% chance is not a plan, just a stupid speculation

60% is good enough to project a threat, even if that charge is not going to happen, your opponent still has to plan for it.

[boyz over toys and have a cheaper tokens to trade. The game is for orks mostly about trading

You think so? My experience recently has been that ork are terrible at trading, I score much higher wins when avoiding them and only pick fights I can win and focus on VP/agendas otherwise. Most of my strategy goes towards delaying getting my units wiped out and trading is working against that.
There is a minimum threshold of units that you need to reach in order to be able to both cover ground and fight off enemies, but beyond that both boyz and toyz are extremely important to a successful army. Boyz before toyz is directly contradicting the other point you made about variety of weapons.

- target oversaturation
- layerd targett oversaturation like you have in the list even better (kill the antiinfatry, before they kill your tanks and than have a infantry againts his antitank)
- redundancy

Thanks to obscuring terrain, you can also archive these things locally. If you hit a part of a battlefield with nobz/breaka boyz/tankbustas that your opponent's anti-elite weapons can't reach well, that might flip the game in your favor right there.
Decent transports in general are a great thing this edition. Being able to slap 10+ ablative wounds on an infantry unit while also making them faster is a great option to have.

- variety of the weapons and be ready to krump the hord and the knights

Oddly, I'm more worried about elite infantry like terminators, eightbound, thunderkyn or wraiths than about knights and hordes.

- mobility,
- mobility
- mobility

Last 3 seems to be the same, but it is so much important imho, I wrote it there 3times. What can one achieve with a fast and cheap roadblocks people tend to underestimate. Gosh I was once beaten by some spanish profi necron player so so bad! That was a gaming lesson of my life.

Eh. I don't think it's that important across the entire codex. Mobility is mostly needed to react to opponent's actions, but as orks you want to be one forcing your opponent to react to you. Ork mobility is better than most armies (especially marines), but worse than the best. So by investing too much into mobility, you might reduce your ability to dictate
Orks in general have low threat ranges, so extra speed definitely helps to get them into position. Especially the tempo archetypes rely on this. However, I see mobility as a support feature, not as core for a successful ork army. Deep strike, infiltrators and rapid ingress can mitigate the need for highly mobile units. Since the codex dropped, we have seen multiple archetypes arise which did not have many mobile elements. In addition, many units whose main feature is mobility have been sitting on the sidelines.

That is btw. the reason why I do not trust the Walkers would be usefull as a concept for the whole army. Infantry could work. Trukks, wagons and buggies /bikers / koptas could.

But unless there will be a fast walkers, there would be no chance to build an army around them.

For kanz, speed definitely is the issue. With their large bases they struggle with their squad mates to even get around a corner of a ruin they were hiding behind, using up their entire movement just to move into firing position, without even thinking closing the gap or moving towards an objective. Comparable walkers either are much faster, have higher ranges or are more durable.
In almost every game I played them, they were wiped out before they could threaten anything of value.

Deff dreads on the flip side aren't really lacking speed. I managed to get them into combat reliably, but once they get there, they struggle to actually kill their target(new ability probably helps). Then you either find yourself stuck in a squad of infantry that whittles down their low number of wounds and then they get hit by nearby low range guns and just die. They absolutely need a defensive profile that allows them to take a hit or two and still keep on going. Primaris dreads do this really well, despite not being faster.

There is a rummour around, that orks should be an opening faction (with some hummies of course) of 11th ed.
If true than new models should be expected. And Walkers are very nice topic. Underdeveloped for very long long time. And as I write there since the end of 8th, their time will come sooner or later…

I would prefer if they kept the first codex curse away from us :(