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A 10 model unit lychguard with sword and shield, zahndrekh, chronomancer, two cryptothralls is ridiculous. The unit gets -1 to hit, -1 to wound, 4+ inv, cryptothralls have a 4+ FNP, nemesor increases the opponents command reroll strat to 2CP, buffs the entire unit with sustained hits, or lethal hits, or devastating wounds, depending on dice roll. And on top the unit can move after shooting.

1. Does units that cannot be lead by Necron Characters benefit from "the Sovereign Coronal" (aura)?

2. Character leading unit is destroyed and returned by stratagem "Protocol of the Eternal Guardian".
Can the Character be put outside of the unit? Declared to be not joining the unit?

This would give an interesting flexibility to "detach" a Character form the unit if needed.
Lokhust Lord leading Heavy Destroyers is tanking shoots (4++) to protect his shooting retinue. He dies and is ressurected outside of the unit to charge/score objective.

 Xyxel wrote:
1. Does units that cannot be lead by Necron Characters benefit from "the Sovereign Coronal" (aura)?

2. Character leading unit is destroyed and returned by stratagem "Protocol of the Eternal Guardian".
Can the Character be put outside of the unit? Declared to be not joining the unit?

This would give an interesting flexibility to "detach" a Character form the unit if needed.
Lokhust Lord leading Heavy Destroyers is tanking shoots (4++) to protect his shooting retinue. He dies and is ressurected outside of the unit to charge/score objective.

1. That is how it is being played RAW and seems to be RAI. But, we are waiting for the first FAQ for all indexes. GW do sometimes pretend to correct a written rule rather than admit they are making a change for balance purposes. And this might be one of those times, as they may have intended it to work on a couple of vehicles, but hadn't logically thought through it working on up to 1,900 points of vehicles.

2. No, it doesn't seem to be optional in the designer's commentary.

If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit).

 p5freak wrote:
A 10 model unit lychguard with sword and shield, zahndrekh, chronomancer, two cryptothralls is ridiculous. The unit gets -1 to hit, -1 to wound, 4+ inv, cryptothralls have a 4+ FNP, nemesor increases the opponents command reroll strat to 2CP, buffs the entire unit with sustained hits, or lethal hits, or devastating wounds, depending on dice roll. And on top the unit can move after shooting.

A good unit to stick a Hexmark behind. Lychguard with support are looking so good that I'm thinking it might even be worthwhile taking scythes instead of shields, the Cryptothralls are tanking the first shots anyway.

 Xyxel wrote:

2. Character leading unit is destroyed and returned by stratagem "Protocol of the Eternal Guardian".
Can the Character be put outside of the unit? Declared to be not joining the unit?

This would give an interesting flexibility to "detach" a Character form the unit if needed.
Lokhust Lord leading Heavy Destroyers is tanking shoots (4++) to protect his shooting retinue. He dies and is ressurected outside of the unit to charge/score objective.

An attached character cannot tank shots for his unit. All wounds must be allocated to the bodyguards, exception is precision. See core rules leader p.39.

Reanimation Protocols were never extremely complicated before 10th edition. It happened when it happened and that was it. Now, game size and so on have a much greater effect.

Take a 500 point game level. Or rather, start at the lowest of all costs. Basic Warriors reanimate once per turn for d3 wounds, objectives not withstanding. So far, so good. Simple, concise, and clear.

Increasing the amount spent by one step, two bodies of 10 Warriors each and 1 Ghost Ark cost just under 400 points. A pretty decent little gunline. Starting d3 oer turn becomes 1d3 plus an additional 1d3 every phase that the unit is attacked. Better minds than mine will have to parse and conjugate exactly what and when "once per phase , just after an enemy unit finished making its attacks" means. The number of triggers in that conditional grows if a "psychic attack" occurs or some out of phase shenanigans happen. I can see the discussions of exactly what constitutes an "ATTACK" coming a mile away.

At that level, it's still not a strategic consideration though. Take it up another step or so and things happen.

Two or three bodies of 20 Warriors each, each one being led by a Cryptek, with one Ghost Ark plus one Canoptek Reanimator and one Lord with Ressurection Orb and our Reanimation Protocols becomes a reanimation swamp. That's just around 1,200 points. Reanimator adds to the basic 1d3 with the Ark plus the Orb means you could lawyerly opportune to reanimate in a growing number of phases scattered throughout his turn and a number of yours.

Hexmark Destroyers added in there to sixgun back repeatedly every time a volley hits any Warriors is gonns be fun to watch. ((new guard manual protocol - "For the Emperor' sake, men, don't shoot the Warriors. Ever! Stab them in the eye.")

A realistic army does not consist of 100% Elite Special Ops units. The basic footslogging grunts outnumber the experts by a lot (imagine a planet-wide assault on Armageddon). That 1,200 point walking reanimation factory is most likely to be the backbone of the phalanx, especially If each warrior gets a 5+ FNP from the League (Legion?) of Technomancers.

Where and when do we begin worrying about reanimating the grunts?

It will get nerfed if it becomes too strong.

So far it doesn't seem to be too strong, but nerfs to other factions could change that.

The avenues for correction are:
- Increase the points on the beneficiaries of RP.
- Increase the points on the providers of RP.
- Change datasheets to reduce the amount of RP.

TomWilton wrote:
Reanimation Protocols were never extremely complicated before 10th edition. It happened when it happened and that was it. Now, game size and so on have a much greater effect.

Take a 500 point game level. Or rather, start at the lowest of all costs. Basic Warriors reanimate once per turn for d3 wounds, objectives not withstanding. So far, so good. Simple, concise, and clear.

Increasing the amount spent by one step, two bodies of 10 Warriors each and 1 Ghost Ark cost just under 400 points. A pretty decent little gunline. Starting d3 oer turn becomes 1d3 plus an additional 1d3 every phase that the unit is attacked. Better minds than mine will have to parse and conjugate exactly what and when "once per phase , just after an enemy unit finished making its attacks" means. The number of triggers in that conditional grows if a "psychic attack" occurs or some out of phase shenanigans happen. I can see the discussions of exactly what constitutes an "ATTACK" coming a mile away.

At that level, it's still not a strategic consideration though. Take it up another step or so and things happen.

Two or three bodies of 20 Warriors each, each one being led by a Cryptek, with one Ghost Ark plus one Canoptek Reanimator and one Lord with Ressurection Orb and our Reanimation Protocols becomes a reanimation swamp. That's just around 1,200 points. Reanimator adds to the basic 1d3 with the Ark plus the Orb means you could lawyerly opportune to reanimate in a growing number of phases scattered throughout his turn and a number of yours.

Hexmark Destroyers added in there to sixgun back repeatedly every time a volley hits any Warriors is gonns be fun to watch. ((new guard manual protocol - "For the Emperor' sake, men, don't shoot the Warriors. Ever! Stab them in the eye.")

A realistic army does not consist of 100% Elite Special Ops units. The basic footslogging grunts outnumber the experts by a lot (imagine a planet-wide assault on Armageddon). That 1,200 point walking reanimation factory is most likely to be the backbone of the phalanx, especially If each warrior gets a 5+ FNP from the League (Legion?) of Technomancers.

Where and when do we begin worrying about reanimating the grunts?

In fairness, I think this list has a fair few weaknesses.

For one, you're spending a *lot* of points on Warriors - a unit that gets to choose between a decent gun with the range of a pistol, or a garbage gun with the range of an actual gun.

What's more, while the Warriors may be quite resilient, the same cannot be said for the Reanimators and Ghost Arks. Thus, an opponent will likely target those first to deplete the resilience of the warriors, before targeting them directly.

Thanks for the answers. Some usable info and some fluff was asked for and given,

appreciated,
- Tom

ps - I know that I have a lot to learn.
So, I'm suggesting a potential Reinforcement of 405 points using all the tricks for you to shoot down (figuratibely).

one Night Scythe unit (1 figure) consisting of Night Scythe 145
one Lychguard unit (9 figures) consisting of
= 5 Lychguard 2 wounds each 3+/4++/5+++ 95
= 2 Cryptothralls 2 wounds each 3+/4+++ 40
= 1 Technomancer w/node 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 60
= 1 Lord w'ResOrb 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 65
all 9 benefit from RP, Systemic Vigour, The Lord's Will, Guardian Protocols, and Orb/Tech enhanced RP, 4 different infantry models (for the tech ability!) that will survive suffering 17 unsaved wounds to RP back to full strength within two turns, 2+ to hit, -2 to be wounded.

Let's see if I understood all I read above on the last six pages about 40K Necron Tactics,

 vipoid wrote:


What's more, while the Warriors may be quite resilient, the same cannot be said for the Reanimators and Ghost Arks. Thus, an opponent will likely target those first to deplete the resilience of the warriors, before targeting them directly.

While indirect is all the rage not everyone has indirect that can effortlessly remove those.

Now that you don't need los for them they and key characters are behind ruins.

one Lychguard unit (9 figures) consisting of
= 5 Lychguard 2 wounds each 3+/4++/5+++ 95
= 2 Cryptothralls 2 wounds each 3+/4+++ 40
= 1 Technomancer w/node 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 60
= 1 Lord w'ResOrb 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 65
all 9 benefit from RP,

So its pumping 165 points to make 95 points more effective?? Killing 5 Lychguard models even with all those upgrades is not hard.
Can Lychugard be RP if all of them are killed?

Such tasty unit will be focussed with Oath of the moment and deleted in one turn, sorry.

 Xyxel wrote:

one Lychguard unit (9 figures) consisting of
= 5 Lychguard 2 wounds each 3+/4++/5+++ 95
= 2 Cryptothralls 2 wounds each 3+/4+++ 40
= 1 Technomancer w/node 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 60
= 1 Lord w'ResOrb 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 65
all 9 benefit from RP,

So its pumping 165 points to make 95 points more effective?? Killing 5 Lychguard models even with all those upgrades is not hard.
Can Lychugard be RP if all of them are killed?

Such tasty unit will be focussed with Oath of the moment and deleted in one turn, sorry.

1). Thank you for explaining that in a clear concise not a sarcastic and pedantic way.

2). Take the same unit and put it anywhere near a reanimator and "oath of moment" would take over 100 points of successful wounding to bring it anywhere near 17 points of damage

Lord leading those Lychguards have 3 attacks. Lychguards have 2 attacks (warscythe).
Is it worth 260 points? Let us know after few battles.

 Xyxel wrote:

one Lychguard unit (9 figures) consisting of
= 5 Lychguard 2 wounds each 3+/4++/5+++ 95
= 2 Cryptothralls 2 wounds each 3+/4+++ 40
= 1 Technomancer w/node 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 60
= 1 Lord w'ResOrb 4 wounds 3+/4+++ 65
all 9 benefit from RP,

So its pumping 165 points to make 95 points more effective?? Killing 5 Lychguard models even with all those upgrades is not hard.
Can Lychugard be RP if all of them are killed?

Such tasty unit will be focussed with Oath of the moment and deleted in one turn, sorry.

In that particular unit, yes the Lychguard could be RP'd so long as the Cryptothralls still live as they count as one singular bodyguard unit (however you would probably want the Cryptothralls to take the hits first so the more likely scenario is you res the Cryptos even after they die).

Personally I'd rather spend more points on bodies before investing heavily into that much support, the example unit clocks in at 260 points, for 240 you could have 10 Lychguard plus a Chronomancer - they would be faster and still have considerable defence.

Thank you. THAT I can understand! I'm wrong a lot but to learn better I need to know why I'm wrong.

On a similar note of trying to give clear friendly advice, I'd argue the main point here is to take the max 10 man squad. That gives you durability in itself, and I'd argue that a 10 man unit makes any support upgrades at least twice as good. So if you wanted to try stacking durability support characters, a max squad of Lychguard or Warriors would be my starting point.

Though TomWilton's fast, cheap squad sounds like a very nice build to me!

so warrior blobs...
right or wrong on taking them, how would you recommend moving them?
walk them across the board?
mix of reapers and flayers, all flayers, all reapers?

i feel obligated to take them as i have 60... lol

Just played my first game of 10th the other day and had a lot of fun, simple starter game using the Only War mission. Played against a very aggressive Ork army who won on scenario after four rounds.

Catacomb Command Barge, Res Orb, Staff of Light, Gauss Cannon
Necron Warriors x 20, Flayers, Technomancer with Control Node
Immortals x 10, Gauss Blasters, Royal Warden

3 Units of 3 Scarabs

Lychguard x 5, Shields, Overlord, Tachyon Arrow, Hypermaterial Ablator, Technomancer with Control Node

Nightbringer

Two units of Lokhust Destroyer x 1
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer x 1, Gauss Destructor
Lokhust Lord, Phylactery
Hexmark Destroyer, Sovereign Coronal

Necron Warriors x 20, Reapers, Plasmancer, embarked in Night Scythe

Orks were a lot of Beast Snaggas, can post list but it'll add another hundred lines to the post cuz it's all infantry blobs.

One big warrior blob was a good objective camper but by the end of the round two or three I'd realized it was a lot of points sunk into the only one victory point a round. Splitting into two units of ten might accomplish the same and opens up the Ghost Ark gambit. The Reaper Warriors with the Plasmancer are a lot of fun. I waited until R3 so they could pop in on my opponent's board edge, and that was probably a mistake - I waited too late and they could have had more of an impact on the game. Fair enough, chalk that up to experience.

Lychguard are awesome and my new favorite unit. After tanking some hits from the Nobs and Mega Nobs I activated Undying Legions and ended up with more models than I started the phase with! Picked up another box to make a 10-man squad, despite my best efforts the five Lychguard did die by the end of Round 4. Will also swap out the Overlord's Tachyon Arrow for the Res Orb. Hypermaterial Ablator didn't end up being that relevant, will drop it.

Running squads of single destroyers was a mistake, they died before Res Protocols could proc. I was trying to use them like Tomb Blades, but got the most out of them targeting the closest units of Snaggas.

Immortals performed well. I moved them up to target units on objectives to get their full rerolls but I think that might be a "it's good when you get it" kind of thing, I think they might be better off as the backfield camper than the big Warrior Blob.

Nightbringer was good in 9th, he's good in 10th, he's an awesome model that is fun to paint, overall I love the Nightbringer.

Scarabs lined the alleys between ruins. Fantastic chafe units. Great distraction pieces. Running units of 6 would get the most out of their RP and self-destruct but I wasn't terribly bothered, they were there to slow down the charges on the Waaagh! turn and that's exactly what they did.

We have a rematch later this month so I've made a few changes (and hit up Ebay for some Tomb Blades!):

CB, Res Orb, Gauss Cannon, Staff of Light
Immortals x 10 with Blasters, Royal Warden, Technomancer w/ Canoptek Control Node
Lychguard x 10 with Shields, Overlord w/ Res Orb and Veil, Technomancer w/ Canoptek Control Node

Lokhust Destroyers x 3, with Lokhust Lord with Staff of Light and Res Orb
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer x 2, with Guass Destructor
Hexmark Destroyer

Tomb Blades x 3, with Nebulascope, Shieldvanes, Gauss Blasters
Scarabs x 3, Three Units

Necron Warrios x 20, with Reapers, Plasmancer, embarked in Night Scythe

The idea is for the Immortals and Lychguard to do more of the camping, let the Destroyers and Tomb Blades be aggressive and have the Warrior Blob pop in R2 wherever it can fit on the board.

Tonight all 6 of my CTan + 4 heavy Lokhust destroyers & 2 Lokust Lords with Resorbs (2 destroys × Lord/2 destroyers + Lotd) took the field.
Vs Salamanders.

My Turn : the Lokusts laid waste to a Landraider, knocking the assault centurions out into the open.
The 3 named CTan advanced.

Salamanders turn1:
They wiped out 1st Lokhust squad. :(
Minor damage was inflicted upon the Ctan.

My turn 2:
RP erased all wounds I'd suffered on the CTan.
The named CTan moved into easy/very reasonable charge range of infernus marines, aggressors, & the assault cents.
The remaining Lokhust squad moved to get LoS to a Whirlwind.
The 3 Transcendents then landed via deep strike.
And then the shooting & assaulting began & the Salamanders were crippled with no hope of victory.
Whatever wasn't dead was either BShockrd or didn't matter.

Salamander turn 2: between focused fire, OotM, & some melee, 1 Transcendent was destroyed.
As well as pretty much every other Salamander save 2 termies, 2 Desolators, their Librarian, and a severely damaged Whirlwind.

We called the game at that point since turn 3 would just be mop up & then primary objective farming for the Necron win.

6 Ctan + 4 heavy Lokhusts - a brutally simple army to play & absolutely leathal.

It IS much simpler to run Transcendent CTan in this edition!

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
so warrior blobs...
right or wrong on taking them, how would you recommend moving them?
walk them across the board?
mix of reapers and flayers, all flayers, all reapers?

i feel obligated to take them as i have 60... lol

I'm mainly approaching this from a theorycraft viewpoint, but 20 warriors, a chromomancer and overlord with the veil of darkness + orb sounds fun.
Your opponent gets exactly one turn to get on objectives, before you reinforce outside 9" of their troops, and move another 5" in the shooting phase.
So if they put a toe into an objective zone, you can (deep strike + move) most of a unit into the objective zone.

Other than that, stacking up a large bunch of reanimation buffs and walking multiple squads across the board seems like the 'obvious' play.
My priority would be getting them onto objectives, so I'd default to reapers. It's not as if blasters will do much outside 12" anyway. And if I'm walking up the board I'm probably assault-moving, so it doesn't matter.

ccs wrote:
6 Ctan + 4 heavy Lokhusts - a brutally simple army to play & absolutely leathal.

It IS much simpler to run Transcendent CTan in this edition!

Monster Mash Necrons sounds really fun. Your list gets up to 1980 pts, anything you'd swap around? Also - how do you get three Transcendent C'tan models? Asking for a friend...

Kalkyrie wrote:
I'm mainly approaching this from a theorycraft viewpoint, but 20 warriors, a chromomancer and overlord with the veil of darkness + orb sounds fun.
Your opponent gets exactly one turn to get on objectives, before you reinforce outside 9" of their troops, and move another 5" in the shooting phase.
So if they put a toe into an objective zone, you can (deep strike + move) most of a unit into the objective zone.

Other than that, stacking up a large bunch of reanimation buffs and walking multiple squads across the board seems like the 'obvious' play.
My priority would be getting them onto objectives, so I'd default to reapers. It's not as if blasters will do much outside 12" anyway. And if I'm walking up the board I'm probably assault-moving, so it doesn't matter.

I like this in theory but having to place 22 models out of DS can force awkward or non-ideal placement, especially if your opponent did a good job screening their back points. For that reason although I love my Night Scythe I'm not sure Aircraft are worth it this edition. More games required to evaluate!

6 Ctan + 4 heavy Lokhusts

Who was the Warlord?

Scoring objectives was problematic or Salamaders did not have the time for this between dying? Indeed they lack chaf units for cheap scoring.
PS. No restrictions (almost) in army building produced such army without battlelines or characters (infantry models) LOL

 p5freak wrote:

 Xyxel wrote:

2. Character leading unit is destroyed and returned by stratagem "Protocol of the Eternal Guardian".
Can the Character be put outside of the unit? Declared to be not joining the unit?

This would give an interesting flexibility to "detach" a Character form the unit if needed.
Lokhust Lord leading Heavy Destroyers is tanking shoots (4++) to protect his shooting retinue. He dies and is ressurected outside of the unit to charge/score objective.

An attached character cannot tank shots for his unit. All wounds must be allocated to the bodyguards, exception is precision. See core rules leader p.39.

Cryptothralls become part of the bodyguard unit, they are not characters.

3x2 Cryptothralls and 1 Canoptek Reanimator is very strong.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
so warrior blobs...
right or wrong on taking them, how would you recommend moving them?
walk them across the board?
mix of reapers and flayers, all flayers, all reapers?

i feel obligated to take them as i have 60... lol

2x20+10 in a Ghost Ark worked really well for me. I just walked advanced onto objectives and refused to step off, they weren't pretty victories because the Warriors were huge points sinks and didn't kill much, but primaries are primary.

 Xyxel wrote:

6 Ctan + 4 heavy Lokhusts

Who was the Warlord?

Scoring objectives was problematic or Salamaders did not have the time for this between dying? Indeed they lack chaf units for cheap scoring.
PS. No restrictions (almost) in army building produced such army without battlelines or characters (infantry models) LOL

Transcendent are characters and can have the 4+++ or character aura enhancements, I imagine one of them picked up command.

Ctans cannot be warlords. Their datasheet explicitly denies it, even the TCTan.

The whole Lychguard thing is more of a feelsbad than its actually good. Its a wall, probably the tankiest wall in the game, but its not that fast and only moderately killy. I see the crypthrall thing changing because personally as a necron player i feel dirty even thinking about doing that because it clearly wasnt intended originally since one of the technos gives the unit a 5+++

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ctans cannot be warlords. Their datasheet explicitly denies it, even the TCTan.

The whole Lychguard thing is more of a feelsbad than its actually good. Its a wall, probably the tankiest wall in the game, but its not that fast and only moderately killy. I see the crypthrall thing changing because personally as a necron player i feel dirty even thinking about doing that because it clearly wasnt intended originally since one of the technos gives the unit a 5+++

Thank you for correcting me. Cryptothralls were very clearly meant to be the first models you remove, otherwise they'd be character instead of part of the bodyguard unit with an ability that lets them fight on death. I hope that makes you feel better about using Cryptothralls, at least if you are facing some of the more beastly factions or the rest of your army needs help.

2x20+10 in a Ghost Ark

The problem is all those units (points!) have the same class of shooting weapons. No anti-tank, no close combat. And OP on Warriors will be wasted if they'll get murdered on the objective (some battlelines fight better in objective range)

Ghost Ark is my favourite so far. More resilient than Warriors, shoots the same, can deal Mortal Wounds (tank shock!) to enemy usnuspecting to be charged by almost dead necron transport

why the hard time killing things with warriors, lack of AP on the flayer, not enough on the reaper or just missed opportunities?

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why the hard time killing things with warriors, lack of AP on the flayer, not enough on the reaper or just missed opportunities?

In my very limited experience, I got stuck in melee or advanced to get to objectives. Not having Assault is a big deal for the Reapers I think. On the other hand I just don't see Royal Wardens having any play in Warriors, I'd much rather have an Overlord with a resurrection orb. The edition is young, I don't really know how I want to engage with it yet or whether I am just giving up.

 vict0988 wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why the hard time killing things with warriors, lack of AP on the flayer, not enough on the reaper or just missed opportunities?

In my very limited experience, I got stuck in melee or advanced to get to objectives. Not having Assault is a big deal for the Reapers I think. On the other hand I just don't see Royal Wardens having any play in Warriors, I'd much rather have an Overlord with a resurrection orb. The edition is young, I don't really know how I want to engage with it yet or whether I am just giving up.

I agree on Royal Wardens, locking the unit out of an orb is a tough one.

A potential alternative to be more aggressive with reaper Warriors though would be to take a Chronomancer as your Cryptek choice and make sure 1 Warrior is carrying a flayer. As long as the unit shoots something, the Chronomancer bonus move can be used, so the single long range gun makes you a lot more mobile. You still probably are not shooting reapers on turn 1, but a double move would help get you set for turn 2 (and move shoot move to avoid combat later on). Something like this:

Overlord (orb)
Chronomancer
Cryptothralls (fnp tanks)
1 Warrior (gauss flayer)
19 Warriors (gauss reaper)

The Chronomancers Aeonstave has an 18" range, this might be enough to trigger his ability.

I made the observation that warrior squads without a leader should be split into two units of 10 instead of taking a unit of 20. I used the souvereign coronal artifact to buff nearby warriors. Two units of 10 are more resistant against oath of moment than a unit of 20.
(If a unit of 10 warriors ever gets targeted with that ability is a different question, while a unit of 20 definitely will be, especially if it includes character support)