Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For the CCB, better to take the Staff of Light or Overlord's Blade? I figure if he gets into combat it's because it's been charged by a tarpit or dedicated character/vehicle killer and won't get to fight first anyway.

Same with an OrbLord I want to babysit my Immortals. The Staff of Light isn't a terribly compelling shooting profile but the unit's there for shooting. Thoughts?

Why would you be the one getting charged? The CCB has a movement of 9" and pretty beefy defensive stats + quantum shielding.
You'll get more mileage being on the offense with it, a playstyle that synergizes with the Carrier Wave Aura.

Orb Lords have a better reason to use SoL as they are slower, so chances are you won't be able to charge that often with them anyway.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why the hard time killing things with warriors, lack of AP on the flayer, not enough on the reaper or just missed opportunities?

I have not yet played against the top list armies (Aeldari, GSC, Custodes), but against SM, their biggest weakness is that their low AP and single damage make for a poor combination against SV3 and 2W models.

I expect they are much better versus Aeldari and GSC (and nothing is good against Custodes at the moment other than IK or Veterans+OotM).

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Why would you be the one getting charged? The CCB has a movement of 9" and pretty beefy defensive stats + quantum shielding.
You'll get more mileage being on the offense with it, a playstyle that synergizes with the Carrier Wave Aura.

That's kind of the point I suppose, I don't expect to be in combat enough for the Warscythe to pay off. Or Overlord's Blade, rather.

Most Indices were updated today, including Necrons. From a quick skim through it looks like:

*Cryptothralls fight on death clarified to affect only Cryptothrall models
*Transcendent C'tan gets even stronger, now has reanimation protocols
*Silent King is a bit less explodey, clarified that Menhirs do not have deadly demise

TC was already a tournament list staple, seems like an overall buff. Shout out if anyone spots anything else that has changed.

*edit - Index card FAQ also updated and summaries changes. A few Ld characteristics and a minor Obelisk change too.

Just wanted to throw this out here, what are people's ideas for kit-bashing/proxying Cryptothralls and/or Transcendent C'tan? I've enjoyed the Ossiarch Bonereaper range, I did a head/weapon swap on the Mortisan Soulreaper and am using him as a Technomancer. Some of the Nighthaunt heroes look like they'd be good stand-ins for C'tan, Lady Olyander in particular. Trying to find a cost-effective stand-in for the Cryptothralls is proving more difficult however!

Some pictures from the game the other day, rematch against my buddy's orks:

 p5freak wrote:
A 10 model unit lychguard with sword and shield, zahndrekh, chronomancer, two cryptothralls is ridiculous. The unit gets -1 to hit, -1 to wound, 4+ inv, cryptothralls have a 4+ FNP, nemesor increases the opponents command reroll strat to 2CP, buffs the entire unit with sustained hits, or lethal hits, or devastating wounds, depending on dice roll. And on top the unit can move after shooting.

Is it not better using a technomancer for the feel no pain against devastating wounds or orikan for the 4+ invuln on the whole squad then switching for other weapons?

Every hq brings its own buffs. Is orikan better than a chronomancer or a technomancer ? I dont know.

hi guys,
saw this over on bolter and chainsword and i wanted to get your take on it.

lets say a character leading a unit is killed by precision attacks.
if i reanimate enough wounds on the unit to bring him back can i?

it was sort of split but someone said no since once hes dead hes no longer leading the unit and therefore not part of it.


thoughts?

as far as im aware. a character is leading a bodyguard unit. They are not a member of that bodyguard unit, so no.

This distinction is what allows us to reanimate the cryptothralls.

Yeah. If an Overlord is leading Warriors, then when all Warriors are dead, the Overlord is no longer part of a Warrior unit, so you can't reanimate the Warriors. So it makes sense to go the other way, too - Overlord gets sniped, the Warrior unit no longer has a leader, can't reanimate him.

Its why there's a stratagem that allows you to bring back a character; its for when that character is sniped or has no body guard.

When a leader model ist returned it must be attached back to its bodyguard unit, If that unit is still present says rules commentary.

Played half of a 2000 point game before we ran out of time. I was losing horribly on points, but stood some chance of bouncing back by just murdering everything.

It was against AdMech. There was a Knight that one-shotted one of my Doomstalkers in turn 1 (they went first), one Reanimator in turn 2, and the 2nd Doomstalker in turn 3... Apart from the Knight, my army was doing pretty well.

Gotta say... Scarabs exploding is awesome. I had 2 units of 6, and they both charged some Dragoons, and took out 2 of them (max explosion damage, a bunch of Lethal Hits). Great cheap unit.

My 20-Warrior squads each had an Overlord with Res Orb. They were both still kicking after 3 turns. Didn't kill that much, but it was enough. If I'd had my turn 3, 1 squad was gonna Veil onto a backline objective and try to kill some Skitarii nearby.

I had only 5 Immortals, but I have GOT to get more. They were surprisingly resilient. They got charged by a melee unit, but it took 3 Fight phases to kill them. I'll still use 20 Warriors, but I'd definitely also like 10 Immortals.

Skorpekhs with a Lord were fantastic. They killed more points than any other unit, and were about to wreck even more. Ended with nearly a full unit, even though they almost got wiped in turn 1.

The Lokhust Heavy was good too. 6 damage on it's big gun is mad. Doomstalkers remain the best choice against Kataphrons. Flat 3 damage is handy.

I tried using a Night Scythe and I was unimpressed.

I think that if I'd gotten the first turn, I might've been in a better position. Most of my units just weren't fast enough to grab objectives, and I kept getting bogged down.

Hecate wrote:
Played half of a 2000 point game before we ran out of time. I was losing horribly on points, but stood some chance of bouncing back by just murdering everything.

It was against AdMech. There was a Knight that one-shotted one of my Doomstalkers in turn 1 (they went first), one Reanimator in turn 2, and the 2nd Doomstalker in turn 3... Apart from the Knight, my army was doing pretty well.

Gotta say... Scarabs exploding is awesome. I had 2 units of 6, and they both charged some Dragoons, and took out 2 of them (max explosion damage, a bunch of Lethal Hits). Great cheap unit.

My 20-Warrior squads each had an Overlord with Res Orb. They were both still kicking after 3 turns. Didn't kill that much, but it was enough. If I'd had my turn 3, 1 squad was gonna Veil onto a backline objective and try to kill some Skitarii nearby.

I had only 5 Immortals, but I have GOT to get more. They were surprisingly resilient. They got charged by a melee unit, but it took 3 Fight phases to kill them. I'll still use 20 Warriors, but I'd definitely also like 10 Immortals.

Skorpekhs with a Lord were fantastic. They killed more points than any other unit, and were about to wreck even more. Ended with nearly a full unit, even though they almost got wiped in turn 1.

The Lokhust Heavy was good too. 6 damage on it's big gun is mad. Doomstalkers remain the best choice against Kataphrons. Flat 3 damage is handy.

I tried using a Night Scythe and I was unimpressed.

I think that if I'd gotten the first turn, I might've been in a better position. Most of my units just weren't fast enough to grab objectives, and I kept getting bogged down.

Doesn't that Skorpekh unit end up costing the most out of any of your units as well? I thought the Skorpekh Lord was a little too expensive but I haven't looked into it too deeply. Hopefully your next game will go a full 5 turns. I think someone needs to try out Night Scythe and picking up Immortals with it using the ability to keep them safe and then get a Plasmancer for maximum damage.

6 Skorpekhs is 220. The Skorpekh Lord is 115. So 335 for the unit.

20 Warriors are 240. Overlord is 85. So 325 for the unit.

The Warriors are far better on an objective, but the Skorpekhs dish out way more damage if they don't get blasted first. Having the Lord gives them +1 to hit, meaning Skorpekhs are hitting on 2s. I think that's worth the points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, my Warriors didn't get much chance to shoot. 1 squad got charged by Dragoons on turn 1, and by infantry on turn 2. The other squad was in the Night Scythe.

The issue with the Night Scythe is that it starts in reserves, and then when it comes in, it has to be within 6" of a board edge, with no further move. I didn't realise that until it was too late. I had to then choose to dump the Warriors further away than I wanted on turn 2, or else risk the Scythe being blasted before zooming up and dumping the Warriors somewhere better on turn 3.

I chose option 1, but that meant only 4 or 5 Warriors got to shoot (because 12" range). If I'd gotten to play turn 3, they probably would've deleted some Skitarii.

Turn 3, I quite likely would've deleted 3 more enemy units, leaving just the Knight and 1 other unit. Again, I probably still would've lost on points because of the terrible start, but there was a slim hope.

Probably not using the Night Scythe again any time soon. Its purpose is meant to be dropping Warriors further up the board, but if that can't happen 'til turn 3, it's kind of useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just bought a Void Dragon, Triarch Stalker, and 3 Wraiths on sale.

Once they're assembled, gonna have a lot more variety in my army.

I don’t see one near first post, but do we have one of those Rank Every Unit in The Book type things?
For a kind of what’s worth taking and what’s not kind of thing.

Tomb Blades is the answers to grabbing objectives fast. They are resilient -1 to hit and shoot particle beamers on 2s with mortal wounds on 6s.

It's easy to forget how quickly those Warriors run up in pts. Which is more important for Warriors, Immortals and Lychguard? Cryptek+Cryptothrall vs Overlord with reanimation orb, are any of them viable without character support and are any of them best without character support for cheapness?

Danny76 wrote:
I don’t see one near first post, but do we have one of those Rank Every Unit in The Book type things?
For a kind of what’s worth taking and what’s not kind of thing.

I think 1) it's a little early for that and 2) the codex seems very combo-heavy. It'd be a shame to scare someone away from a unit that works in some kinds of lists or to encourage people to spam something that is only good as part of a combo.

Hecate wrote:


The issue with the Night Scythe is that it starts in reserves, and then when it comes in, it has to be within 6" of a board edge, with no further move. I didn't realise that until it was too late. I had to then choose to dump the Warriors further away than I wanted on turn 2, or else risk the Scythe being blasted before zooming up and dumping the Warriors somewhere better on turn 3.

I chose option 1, but that meant only 4 or 5 Warriors got to shoot (because 12" range). If I'd gotten to play turn 3, they probably would've deleted some Skitarii.

Turn 3, I quite likely would've deleted 3 more enemy units, leaving just the Knight and 1 other unit. Again, I probably still would've lost on points because of the terrible start, but there was a slim hope.

Probably not using the Night Scythe again any time soon. Its purpose is meant to be dropping Warriors further up the board, but if that can't happen 'til turn 3, it's kind of useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just bought a Void Dragon, Triarch Stalker, and 3 Wraiths on sale.

Once they're assembled, gonna have a lot more variety in my army.

It's worse than that. They can't disembark in reinforcement step so have to come out t3. There's reason aircraft rarely done and transport aircraft even less.

I have 3 Tomb Blades. Haven't run them in 10th yet, but will give them a go. Maybe grab the least-contested objective. I know in 9th they weren't very sturdy.

Will also try some Crypteks. Haven't used them yet in 10th. Might do like a massive "20 Warriors, 1 Overlord, 1 Cryptek, 2 Cryptothralls" blob. Maybe add a second Cryptek to some Immortals. Possibly a Royal Warden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, seriously? Ugh. I guess I accidentally cheated then, as I disembarked the Warriors on turn 2!

Yeah, not taking the Night Scythe again. Not even sure about running it as a Doom Scythe, which is what the model is built as.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question about the Veil of Darkness:

You use the Veil at the end of the opponent's turn, taking your unit off the battlefield. They return in your Reinforcements step. So the question is: Does that unit get to reanimate in that Command phase if they're technically not on the battlefield?

1. Cryptothralls receive +1 to hit from being in Unit lead by Necron Character?

2. Chronomancer looks to be the best Cryptek for blob of 20 Warriors? (gonna try out soon)
Extra 5" each shooting phase make them fast to grab objective early. -1 to hit makes them more resilient than inv or FnP.

Reanimation: yes.
Chryptothrall: yes

No comment regading chronomancer.

-1 to hit has no effect on things that are already -1 to hit for other reasons like firing indirectly. You get a 25% increase in durability against BS 2+, 33% vs BS 3+, 50% vs BS 4+, 100% vs BS 5+, notably this applies to any Cryptothralls in the unit, unless the attacker has sustained hits or lethal hits, which -1 to hit does not affect. FNP is more complicated with a 50% increase against D1, which is as good or better most of the time as -1 to hit, but for 1W models it falls off hard against D2+, the FNP goes further for the Lychguard but does absolutely nothing for the Cryptothralls. Thinking about it I reckon you're probably right that the 4++ is rarely as useful as -1 to hit, since -1 to hit helps against attacks with devastating wounds unlike the 4++. The 4++ feels really great to have though, high AP weaponry just bounces off. You have to consider that you cannot Advance and Shoot, so the 5" move is instead of Advancing, so if you want to make full use of the move-shoot-move then you'd be running gauss flayers, is that a good idea?

Remember that Characters get the buff themselves when inside a unit, Plasmancers can kick ass in melee (somewhat).

Thanks for detailed % analysys!
With Royal Warden such 20 Warriors Blob can move, advance, shoot (gained assault from Warden), move extra 5" from Chronomancer.
So movement between 11"-16" for shooting battleline!

Can damage be taken to Crypothralls first if they are included into Warriors unit due to Cryptek?
Better save and FNP than Warriors and can be reanimated even if both Cryptothralls are killed, yes?

 Xyxel wrote:
Thanks for detailed % analysys!
With Royal Warden such 20 Warriors Blob can move, advance, shoot (gained assault from Warden), move extra 5" from Chronomancer.
So movement between 11"-16" for shooting battleline!

Can damage be taken to Crypothralls first if they are included into Warriors unit due to Cryptek?
Better save and FNP than Warriors and can be reanimated even if both Cryptothralls are killed, yes?

Yes, Cryptothralls are the same unit as the Warriors. Like if you have a unit of Canoptek Wraiths where some of them have whip coils and some have claws, you can pick off the least useful ones first (or in this case the ones with FNP to then recover them later). Cryptothralls are not counted as a separate unit unlike characters, it's really wonky and I honestly think it should be fixed, you should not get to tank with the Cryptothralls until the Warriors are dead. I doubt the Warden wins against the Overlord, the free Stratagem and resurrection orb is too good, that's 10 extra Warriors each battle round, maybe you find it to be overkill though.

Withouth shooting such unit of 20 Warriors cannot do extra 5" move (Chronometron rule) so the Chronomancer would be less synergic with Overlord (instead of Warden granting assault rule).
Gotta try if extra mobility is worth less survivability.

Considering how slow necrons are, I would suspect so.

Chronomancer should be chosen if your intention for a particular unit is to advance quickly up the board turn 1 or 2.

It really cannot be evaluated outside of the context of your army’s individual plans for victory for each mission type and whether you will need 5” guaranteed movement (assuming an eligible target).

On paper and in a vacuum, it is artificially worse than alternative HQs.

I’ve run them quite a bit and found them really useful for the various board location-specific secondaries and for contesting/holding the No Man’s Land Objectives as of turn 1.