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Something I haven't been able to square in my mind yet is who would win in a fight - Palanite Enforcers (of Necromunda) or Adeptus Arbites? 10 vs 10 or something like that.

In other words, the elite-of-the-elite, in my mind, don't instantly stand out as having a greater chance. Palanite enforcers have heavy weapons, armor, cyber mastiffs, automata, etc etc. Arbites supposedly have the same exact things.

What gives Arbites the edge when it *really* comes down to it? Funding? The ability to call in support?

Seems to me like the Enforcers could beat the Arbites in a fight almost half the time, in truth...

Am I missing something there?

I'm not super familiar with the palanite enforcers specifically. If they're anything like the enforcers in the Broken City stories, then they're essentially just 40k cops with S3 guns, shock mauls, and maybe some kit for hunting down individuals.

The most rank-and-file of arbites are probably similarly equipped, but the more elite arbites are packing bolters, driving rhino equivalents, etc. Plus where the enforcers might have DNA sniffers, the arbites have cyber mastiffs. Where the arbites might know which local snitches to shake down, the arbites have dedicated spy networks.

So in short, funding. Enforcers are equipped to bully civillians and take on gangers. Arbites are probably somewhere in the ballpark of sisters or guardsmen.

Depth of backup.

Enforcers are planetary. They enforce local law, for the guys who run the world.

Arbites are Imperial. Behind them is the might of the galaxy spanning empire.

Both are well trained guys with a gun and a badge. But when they get on the vox to call for help, one of them can only escalate up to the edge of the atmosphere. The other can get support from the stars.

Arbites. Arbites all the way, 100% of the time. Palanite enforcers are just police cosplaying arbites (explicitly, their uniforms are designed to emulate the Arbites for intimidation)

a palanite enforcer facing an Arbitrator would piss themselves with fear, and that's not counting the fact that Arbites are equipped, as standard with shotguns loaded with executioner rounds or bolters. Arbites could take out the Enforcers at range [i]while the enforcers are hiding behind cover[i]

Palanite Enforcers are very scary and intimidating when they're facing civilians or gangers with scraped-together equipment in the underhive. Against an actual trained and equipped fighting force they will crumble

I always like to equate it like, Enforcers are Rent-a-Cops (aka security guards of the modern day) while Arbites are more like SWAT / FBI, not even basic cops but more like specialists or federal agents

Charax wrote:
Arbites. Arbites all the way, 100% of the time. Palanite enforcers are just police cosplaying arbites (explicitly, their uniforms are designed to emulate the Arbites for intimidation)

a palanite enforcer facing an Arbitrator would piss themselves with fear, and that's not counting the fact that Arbites are equipped, as standard with shotguns loaded with executioner rounds or bolters. Arbites could take out the Enforcers at range [i]while the enforcers are hiding behind cover[i]

Palanite Enforcers are very scary and intimidating when they're facing civilians or gangers with scraped-together equipment in the underhive. Against an actual trained and equipped fighting force they will crumble

Not sure if you're familiar with Palanites.
Palanites are all armed with Shotguns and Bolters too. Also shock weapons, grenade launchers and sniper rifles. Cyber Mastiffs and Law-tomatons (human Dreadnaughts).
Arbites have a bondage fetish mask.

The FBI is mostly made up of accountants and lawyers. They're a terrible comparison to 40k factions.
The Arbites are more like US Marshalls while Palanites are a specialist SWAT team in Hallsville Indiana.
You send the Arbites to arrest a rogue element of the Navigator Households or to retrieve a kidnapped Lords daughter. The Palanites are used to suppress an army of rioters and Genestealers cultists.
Palanites live on Necromunda. They face genevat monstrosities and people with a working STC.

So think of it like this but on a much larger scale. Enforcers are equivalent to police and Arbites are equivalent to Federal agencies. Who’s “better” or would win in a fight is determined by a number of things. We can certainly knock out one thing though, Arbites would certainly be better equipped and funded versus the Enforcers. Arbites even have their own space ships.

An important thing to understand is while the Fed (Arbites) is great at solving crimes, and have all this high tech gear. The average Enforcer (Police Officer) will be much more vetted with handling street crimes or immediate law enforcement response vs a Arbite. In major cities in the US, a LEO can make more felony arrests a month than the Fed. Transferring this to 40k, in some hives (Necromunda, Gargantua, Terra, etc…) the Enforcers are more akin to an army constantly fighting gangers daily and constantly being in high stress environments . The Arbites are awesome at tracking, fugitive recovery, making sure tithes are obeyed, and squabbling riots when necessary; responding to calls and getting in prolonged engagements is more an Enforcer thing. There are plenty of examples of Arbites making a last stand, fighting chaos, and all but “realistically” Enforcers would be more vetted for handling crime and getting in those close engagements. Now Arbites would be way better at fugitive recovery and investigations, and likely have built cases and being much more prepared for a trial versus the Enforcer because they likely would have more time. I’m sure the Arbite is much more disciplined than an Enforcer being trained in the Schola vs an Enforcer who would have gone to their planet’s version of an academy as well.

All in all, as for who would win, the first dude or dudette who aligns a shot and pulls the trigger first. Although the Arbite would also be equipped with Carapace so there’s also that advantage. I think the Enforcer would do better in a throw down but the Arbite has an advantage because of their equipment and protection. But both have different missions. Both have great books written about them.

Palanite enforcers are probably amongst the best equipped enforcers in the Imperium (outside Mechanicus worlds), I doubt they are a typical example. Necromunda is a very old, rich, important world that produces large amounts of high-quality munitions for the Imperium. They can afford excellent gear produced on-world for their local police. Most worlds probably do not have enforcer gear that rivals Arbites quality of gear.

Having said that, I'd expect Arbites to generally have better organisation and command due to their Schola upbringing. They have been trained for warfare even if they now practice high-level policework.

In terms of training?

Palanite Enforcers are recruited from Gangers.

Adeptus Arbites are products of the Schola Progenium, an Imperial department that finds a use for the orphans of Imperial Bigwigs.

Now, both are going to have pros and cons. Palanites will have street skills, but Arbites have formal training. Palanites will have whatever passes for local knowledge, but the Arbites have been trained in effective team work more or less since childhood,

Arbites will almost certainly be better fed and as a result, healthier than anyone raised on a Hive World that isn’t part of the ruling elite.

Whilst I don’t think it would be a simple ROFLstomp, I just can’t give it to Palanites. They’re used to duffing up, intimidating and impressing comparative Yokels. A brute squad rather than one with military discipline to speak of. Especially if it’s equal numbers.

It’d be akin to National Guard up against Special Forces. Both are quite capable of killing one another, but the tactics, training and discipline in the former is going to weigh heavily in their favour.

Fair enough, it seems the main distinctions are with what I was starting to allude to in regards to their sort of 'meta' situations, the whole having spaceships and being funded, training, support, getting to order people around - all moreso than just if you happen to plop 10 of each in a battle together.

I suppose in truth I *want* the Arbites to have just insane frickin' mega-gear and stuff in my campaigns. Apparently it's official that they have all sorts of things like preternatural psychic-crime predicting psyker-types in their vat fluids within their planetary fortresses. And, I learned, they have 'soulguilt scanners', as seen here, page 15: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/afpkioVXn0db0z5S.pdf

I even checked the Hostile Acquisitions Rogue Trader RPG book, nothing really popped out.

So yeah, I guess just want them to be *scary* and absolutely ridiculous in that regard. But by-the-book, it seems Enforcers really are just-as.

Has anyone picked up on any more insanity that they have at their disposal than the above?

I’d also like to point out while the Arbites may have better gear it doesn’t necessarily equate that they are trained better. You can have a planet that trains their space cops like special forces and the exact opposite, you can have space cops that are simply gangers handed a gun with little to no training. The universe is so big you pretty much can make up your own rules or worlds. Lastly, space cops (enforcers) would highly outnumber space feds (Arbites).

usmcmidn wrote:
I’d also like to point out while the Arbites may have better gear it doesn’t necessarily equate that they are trained better. You can have a planet that trains their space cops like special forces and the exact opposite, you can have space cops that are simply gangers handed a gun with little to no training. The universe is so big you pretty much can make up your own rules or worlds. Lastly, space cops (enforcers) would highly outnumber space feds (Arbites).

It would be extremely difficult to be trained better than Arbites, who are trained in the same manner as the top-level human special forces by the same institution (stormtroopers in the Schola Progenium), but some planets will have enforcers approaching or matching that level, in the same way that true scion-equivalents are rare amongst regimental and PDF forces but do exist.

 Haighus wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
I’d also like to point out while the Arbites may have better gear it doesn’t necessarily equate that they are trained better. You can have a planet that trains their space cops like special forces and the exact opposite, you can have space cops that are simply gangers handed a gun with little to no training. The universe is so big you pretty much can make up your own rules or worlds. Lastly, space cops (enforcers) would highly outnumber space feds (Arbites).

It would be extremely difficult to be trained better than Arbites, who are trained in the same manner as the top-level human special forces by the same institution (stormtroopers in the Schola Progenium), but some planets will have enforcers approaching or matching that level, in the same way that true scion-equivalents are rare amongst regimental and PDF forces but do exist.

Yeah, the thing about this universe is the rules are whatever you want (in ALMOST every aspect of the fluff). You want ganger cops, cool. You want super elite cops, cool. You want all cops who are actually genestealer cultists and pray to the spaghetti tentacle monster in the sky, cool. That’s why I like the hobby so much, you are your own boss.

 Haighus wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
I’d also like to point out while the Arbites may have better gear it doesn’t necessarily equate that they are trained better. You can have a planet that trains their space cops like special forces and the exact opposite, you can have space cops that are simply gangers handed a gun with little to no training. The universe is so big you pretty much can make up your own rules or worlds. Lastly, space cops (enforcers) would highly outnumber space feds (Arbites).

It would be extremely difficult to be trained better than Arbites, who are trained in the same manner as the top-level human special forces by the same institution (stormtroopers in the Schola Progenium), but some planets will have enforcers approaching or matching that level, in the same way that true scion-equivalents are rare amongst regimental and PDF forces but do exist.

Arbites also have more standardised training, as it’s more or less from birth/infancy. Palanites, having refreshed my knowledge are noted as being particularly well trained, but are recruited at a later age.

There are merits to both. If you induct a former ganger? They’re going to have skills already. But the training process for Palanite’s is described as Breaking Them. But I suspect those skills will be so ingrained you can’t erase them, and may allow for unpleasant sneaky surprises at the worst moment. From infancy? Well you can do pretty much anything with such a young mind. They’ll also have a better diet during their formative years. By no means Slap Up Feasts three times a day, but one formed from some understanding of actual nutrition and what a growing body needs. That again is a difference.

I still don’t think there’d be that much in it, and certainly far from an entirely one-sided affair.

Arbites are fanatics as well. Their dedication to the Lex Imperialis is unquestioning and unwavering. Arbites are cut from the same cloth as Commissars and Inquisitors, the latter of which some often end up serving as Acolytes.
You might get the odd Enforcer who is a stickler for the rule of law but ultimately they're essentially hired goons for the Governor.

This is great info, but I still just think all of this isn't cool enough on its own for the Arbites lol. I love the idea of them too dearly, where if 40k is the extreme of everything, they should be way more over the top than just Judge Dredd with spaceships and otherwise exactly equivalent gear etc.

I need to plunge deeper into the lore to think of some super gear or super 'roids for them to be on, or something like that. Psyker cops?
Yes... They kind of have them already back in their precincts after all. Hmmm....

Ideas welcome, if the lore has not provided us anything more

 Netsurfer733 wrote:
This is great info, but I still just think all of this isn't cool enough on its own for the Arbites lol. I love the idea of them too dearly, where if 40k is the extreme of everything, they should be way more over the top than just Judge Dredd with spaceships and otherwise exactly equivalent gear etc.

I need to plunge deeper into the lore to think of some super gear or super 'roids for them to be on, or something like that. Psyker cops?
Yes... They kind of have them already back in their precincts after all. Hmmm....

Ideas welcome, if the lore has not provided us anything more

So I have been getting into the lore pretty hard within the last year (Enforcer Lore). I highly suggest the Warhammer Crime series.

- Bloodlines
-The Bookkeeper's Skull
-Grim Repast

In that order. I did the audio books and they are great. I made an Enforcer "gang" for Necromunda using Guard Bitz, and Enforcer bitz too and modeled them off of US city cops, they look great. Its "cheaper" than buying an army in 40k and its fairly easy to start. The rules are kinda crap but its really fun. Also not very competitive, but the new robot miniature may fix the balance issue.

Arbites, easy.

Enforcers might be more numerous, but are tasked with enforcing the planetary governor's edicts amongst the populace.

Arbites are tasked with enforcing the Pax Imperium, and trained specifically to take down a rogue governor (or hold out against a full planetary uprising).

This fight is what one of these factions has been preparing for, likely taking the local conditions into account. Without offworld or daemonic assistance, the Arbites will have the 'n+1' advantage because if you start doing focused training or bringing in extra tech for your enforcers, the judges will also be requesting reinforcements to counter that.