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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 01:14:58
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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You've got the generic rule for Stratagems:
You can use the same Stratagem
multiple times during a battle, but you
cannot use the same Stratagem more than
once in the same phase.
Then you've got Rites of Battle(and differently named but similarly worded bespokes on Guilliman, Ventris, Ursula, etc):
Rites of Battle: Once per battle round, one unit from your
army with this ability can be targeted by a Stratagem for
0CP, even if another unit from your army has already been
targeted by that Stratagem this phase.
Finally you've got a bespoke escalator on Overwatch itself:
You can only use this Stratagem
once per turn.
Now the way I figure this: the Captain lets you ignore the generic rule for in the same phase - but not the once per turn escalator on Overwatch.
Maybe by a strict RAW they can all repeat in the one phase, but I don't think that's RAI.
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 06:22:45
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Cae use once per turn. Captain doesn't overcome that period
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 06:37:53
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Then you get the Hexmark Destroyer, who says they can use Overwatch even if someone else already used it that phase.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 07:34:10
Subject: Re:Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Rites lets you use almost all of the stratagems more than once per phase. The additional restriction on Overwatch Fire is more specific, so Rites doesn't work. It's just like previous editions where deep striking out a land raider doesn't let you assault out of deep strike--if two rules say you can't do something, you need to address both of them.
Compare:
Rites of Battle: Once per battle round, one unit from your army with this ability can be targeted by a Stratagem for 0CP, even if another unit from your army has already been targeted by that Stratagem this phase.
Pouncing Hunters: You can target this unit with the Heroic Intervention Stratagem for 0CP, and can do so even if
you have already used that Stratagem on a different unit this phase.
That's language addressing the "once per phase" rule, not a "once per turn" rule.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 08:51:36
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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[DCM]
Tzeentch's Fan Girl
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I think the intent with 'once per turn' restriction on Overwatch instead of 'once per phase' is so that can't Overwatch against the same unit twice a turn (once in the Move phase, again in the Charge phase).
Less clear is the intended interaction between Overwtach's 'once per turn' and Rites of Battle, et al.
Prime candidate for an FAQ.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 16:45:52
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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AduroT wrote:Then you get the Hexmark Destroyer, who says they can use Overwatch even if someone else already used it that phase.
And this seems to be the answer to the argument.
Hexmark says, "Once per turn, one unit from your army with this ability can be targeted with the Fire Overwatch Stratagem for 0CP, even if you have already used that Stratagem on a different unit this phase."
The explicit permission to use the strat multiple times per phase overrides the explicit restriction that OW can only be used once per turn.
An explicit permission overrides an explicit restriction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 18:32:30
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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You’ve got express permission to use a Strat even if used, so fill your boots.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/05 22:33:59
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Confessor Of Sins
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Elric Greywolf wrote: AduroT wrote:Then you get the Hexmark Destroyer, who says they can use Overwatch even if someone else already used it that phase.
And this seems to be the answer to the argument.
Hexmark says, "Once per turn, one unit from your army with this ability can be targeted with the Fire Overwatch Stratagem for 0CP, even if you have already used that Stratagem on a different unit this phase."
The explicit permission to use the strat multiple times per phase overrides the explicit restriction that OW can only be used once per turn.
An explicit permission overrides an explicit restriction.
No. That is only applicable to the Hexmark because it gives explicit permission for units with the Inescapable Death rule. Notice how it is so powerful that GW only allowed one unit with the rule to use it per turn?
Now GW may be fine with it, but currently the Rules Commentary does not have any guidance over this type of rules priority.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/06 12:57:36
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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JohnnyHell wrote:You’ve got express permission to use a Strat even if used, so fill your boots.
That overcomes one restriction, but not the more specific restriction on overwatch. This contrasts well with the hex mark ability.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/06 13:12:34
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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The issue with the Hexmark is it also says you can use Overwatch even if someone else used it in the same phase, using the same words as the generic any strat version, and also makes no mention of canceling the once per turn rule on it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/06 13:14:36
Subject: Repeat Strats and Overwatch
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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nosferatu1001 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:You’ve got express permission to use a Strat even if used, so fill your boots.
That overcomes one restriction, but not the more specific restriction on overwatch. This contrasts well with the hex mark ability.
IMHO this is the right, and general, answer: specific restrictions need a specific exemption to be overcome.
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