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Chaos
1. Stratagem Infernal rights cost 2CP. Should be 1. New Stratagem pick an enemy you are charging in melee. unit rolls battleshock test failure add 1 to ap.
2. Enhancement Eye of Tzeentch should activate on a d6 unless a 1 roll. Over rolling leadership which is a 42% failed chance. Orb of unlife cost should be 20 not 25. Liber hereticus cost drop to 30. Enhancements are 90% not used.
3. Huron black heart red Corsair ability wording should be after rolling to see who goes first.
4. Heretic daemon prince both costs need to drop or add line operative or no wings attach to possessed and legionaries. Wings. Attach to warp talons.
5. Cypher should have Astartes chainsword
6. Chais lord daemonhamner . WS3+ No one will take it over the powerfist. WS2+. Need to increase S of daemonhammer to 10 or add battleshock roll when damage a unit with daemon hammer. If it becomes a 2+ WS then no one will take powerfist.
7. Sorcerer gift of chaos should read for each Sorcerer successful hit psychic attack, enemy unit rolls leadership test. This gives opportunity of 2 1d3 mortal wound rolls. So if he hits with range and melee that’s 2. With a 42-60% success roll.
8. Lord discordant lower cost and give lone operative if within 3” of vehicle (like warpsmith)
9. Warpsmith gives no bonus to any havoc legionaries or chosen when attached.Master of mechanism should add hit bonus and heal to attached unit or a vehicle. So warpsmith can choose one or other.
10. exalted champion should include Plasma Pistol option and drop cost by 5.
11. Dark apostle. Needs either to add once per battle feel no pain or Add or change malign sacrifice sacrifice one disciple to give unit feel no pain 6+. Thus getting it twice.
12. Legionaries cost down to 85. Noise marines are 85 and better.
13. Master of execution. Trophy taker should change to first strike if enemy unit has a character.
14. Noise marines should go up to 90 points
15. Chaos bikes should go down by 5 points
16. Warp talons point drop 120.
17 obliterators weapon ruinous should have +1 to how many attacks. Warp hail should be +6.
18. Defiled is too large of a model. Needs can walk over buildings at 4” move
19. Forgefiend. Increase jaw attack to something worthy of possibly taking for melee ap -2. Over another ecto plasma.
20. Helbrute either cost drop to 130 or add heals 1 damage at start of turn.
21. Heldrake drop cost 160
22. Chaos spawn drop cost to 60.
23. Noctilith crown lower cost to 100 and give it a 9” weapon range
24. Vashtorr lower point cost or give him lone operative within 3” of vehicles. Ability -1 off of damage attacks hitting Vashtorr cannot go below 1.
25. Traitor guardsman. Hold objective if wholly within 3” of it.
26. Traitor enforcer gives unit 6+ feel no pain when wholly on an objective

Weapon profiles so the army is actualy able to kill something else then a naked grot in the open. Then the special rules we have should be brought in line with other marines.
stats brough in line with other marines. points costs or if they are suppose to have custodes costs, then we need a custodes stat line.

Psychic powers or the psychi trait to do something besides being an outright debuff to our army or buff to oppossing armies.

The rest is secondary things and wish listing.

Votann

1. Everything and everyone
2. ???
3. Profit

Let tank commanders, and this is a crazy idea, command tanks? They are pretty bad at it, and a lot of people view Leontus as an auto-include simply for his ability to order vehicles.

Dark Eldar:
1) Some new units.
2) A codex that wasn't written by a haddock flopping around on a keyboard.

For Death Guard, return all legacy of the heresy units to standard play, DG should have access to these things.

For Dark Angels, Deathwing and Ravenwing detachments.

I play Custodies. And they are very top tier, little needs to be changed. They have a very unique play style and army building.

How ever. In all fairness Custodian Guard should probably cost 50 points instead of 45, as they are in many way superior to the 50 point wardens. This would also mean taking 30 of the buggers more expensive for lists.

Second I wish that they did have some anti tank shooting outside of the 200+ point tanks. But this is part of what makes the army unique.

Spear shield probably be worse. As axes and swords are very bad I comparison. Would they stil be interesting at either S6, AP1 or D1?

I really wish Eldar, Knights, Custodies, 1000 sons and GSC where nerfed a little bit so every other army could close the gap.

A Firstborn-only codex.

It'd be nice if the Mecha-Tendrils on Warp Smith's did something with [Extra Attacks] rather than nothing in melee.

 vipoid wrote:
Dark Eldar:
1) Some new units.
2) A codex that wasn't written by a haddock flopping around on a keyboard.

Tyranids:
1) Some new units.
2) A codex that wasn't written by a haddock flopping around on a keyboard.

Bump Atrementar up to WS5 and Leadership 9. That's pretty much it.

Hey, the thread doesn't specify 40k.

Hotshot weapons back to AP -2 and to 18/6 inches for HSLG and pistols, instead of the boring slightly spicier lasguns they currently are.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Hotshot weapons back to AP -2 and to 18/6 inches for HSLG and pistols, instead of the boring slightly spicier lasguns they currently are.

18" range would kill Scions, as you are more than 9" away on the drop.

For my Orks (Grots actually....)

1) I need the stats for the Goff Rocka

2) I need the stats for The Red Gobbo on squig

3) I think there was a typo on my Big Gunz - they're listed as being BS6

 Trickstick wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Hotshot weapons back to AP -2 and to 18/6 inches for HSLG and pistols, instead of the boring slightly spicier lasguns they currently are.

18" range would kill Scions, as you are more than 9" away on the drop.

Shame, because turning their main weapon into more and more a generic weapon is just boring for them, can't ever have nice things

Craftworlders:
1. Get rid of Strands of Fate. People don't like playing against it. It's not super evocative. It's arguably just representing the same fluff a farseer's special rules should be. Replace it with something that makes our playstyle feel unique instead of just making us hyper-efficient at killing stuff and making key saves.

2. Night spinner should be less expensive than the fire prism. I'm not sure where the fire prism's points should be, but the night spinner should cost less.

3. Wraith units' bonus shooting when you attacking them is weird and can probably safely be removed entirely.

4. Maybe let storm guardian sticky objectives work while they're in a transport (like kabalites). As-is, it's awkward to have to stand the squishy unit out in the open, and it detracts from the feeling of eldar not trying to hold ground (which is what I like about the kabalite version.)

5. Banshees need... something. They lost a lot of their old speed and the ability to turn off overwatch, so they're not really a disruptor unit like they were in 8th. They too squishy (vulnerable to overwatch) and don't quite seem to hit hard enough to pull their weight against marines. They feel about right against sisters, so maybe make them Anti-infantry 4+ or something? Not sure.

6. Dark Reapers really need an extra point of damage back on their strength 8 profile. As-is, both of their profiles feel like they're made for hunting various types of infantry, which means they're less flexible in their role than they used to be, and they're competing directly with other infantry-slayers.

7. The limitation on what squads our characters can join is pretty awkward. Believe it or not, GW, I don't want to have to drag a squad of guardians (and their wave serpent) to every single fight to field my farseers and autarchs. And warlocks being able to do things like quicken their unit seemed really cool until I realized they couldn't help out banshees.

8. The star lance on shining spears got weirdly gimped, and it bothers me tremendously even though I only sometimes field that unit.

9. Generally, I'd like some form of speed-as-defense back in a non-stratagem form.

Drukhari:
1. Our detachment benefits are really bad when they're the only option available. Basically writes the first several hundred points of your list for you or else forces you to essentially not have your eldar rerolls/marine doctrines equivalent.

2. Characters are way too restricted in general. Almost zero wargear options. Basically only allowed to join a single type of unit each. Not allowed to join units that they've traditionally been associated with (ex: incubi used to have a bodyguard rule for archons, and grotesques used to freak out if they didn't have a haemonculus to mind them.) Cranks the general lack of choice in list building in 10th up to 11.

3. Poison not working against bikes/cavalry/beasts/etc. is unfluffy and also leaves us without good answers to a wide range of targets. Especially given that blasters and blast pistols are now bad against tanks meaning you have fewer dark lance shots to spare on non-vehicle-non-infantry targets.

4. I feel so offended for wyches. I don't think they've ever been this bad at melee or this bereft on wargear options. Even their drugs are gone. Our other melee units are also limp noodles (including most of the characters), but it's extra noticable on wyches.

5. Also, pretty much all of the multi-edition-spanning complaints we've had in the past remain unaddressed. Ex; archons not being able to buff units from inside their vehicles, melee units not being able to assault out of a moving raider,

6. Hellions should probably be allowed to fly through walls.

7. Don't like the fixed unit configuration of beast packs works now. I get they were trying to make it fit the 10th edition points system, but I have zero razorwing flocks and more khymarae than I'm now allowed to use.

8. Court of the archon feels half-baked. They finally let the individual members contribute to a unit (which is mostly good), but then they made the squad size of warriors a flat 10. So you either have to split the squad up using a venom (meaning you're only buffing 5 warriors) or else you have to walk around on foot (meaning you're slow and probably just dying as soon as you pop out.)

9. Just. All the lack of options. Our poor wyches and warriors. 3rd edition armory, I remember thee fondly. Oh for the whacky wargear of 5th edition.

10. Okay, but why are incubi character hunters though? Also, why is the haemonculus a (bad) character hunter?

11. 10 scourges with 4 special weapons should not be double the cost of 5 scourges with 4 special weapons.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
3. Wraith units' bonus shooting when you attacking them is weird and can probably safely be removed entirely.

Especially given the recent change to that rule that means it loses half the instances where it would ever be used.

...If you fixed the to-wound table you'd fix a lot of things about every army...

Orks...oh my orks.

0. Waagh has to last at least 2 turns, as did in 9@. Or, change the concept. Ideally, something with diminishing returns. Say, first turn you get current rule. Second, same but less powerful, 3r same but less less and so on.

1. Scrap the abilities tied to waagh. As a 1 turn boost are not a bad option (if they are relevant and consistent) but having them as single ability leaves a lot of data sheets with 1 turn trick that will probably not be used in all the game, leaving the data sheets effectively without abilities.

2. Dakka needs to be doubled. Almost all units hitting on 5+, with reduced AP and reduced dakka makes playing shooting units impossible (few exceptions). Only time waagh shooting was oppressive was during buggy spam which got addressed by the rule of 3 and buggies on 1-1 unit base.

3. Lack of AP and Str on melee. Orks rely on CC to crump things but power klaw was nerfed to s9 while vehicle T went up. As result, orks AT CC doesn't not cut the deal. Used to be s10 which would alleviate most of the problem since in waagh da nobs would hit with s11, wounding on 3+ medium armour.

4. Remove the interaction of devasting + anti. Change anti to give a boost of AP Vs certain objetives + the wounding thing.

Then regarding specific units:

A. Beastboss on squig. Lacks AP, it is tough yes, but rarely kills anything if devasting+anti is not triggered. Bad design.

B. Megamek refilling 1s in shooting does nothing to a unit that shoots as little or as bad as megas.

C.Fliers don't shoot enough. Dakkajet, named after dakka, in ideal conditions will hit 9 times with 6 -1 1. Killing...1marine per turn? Wazboom 2d3 shoots with middle anti tank strength (9 and 12 ap3-2) at 4+ for 175pts? What?

D. Buggies to hp4+. Scrapjet lost a twin linked big shoota for no reason (the one mained by the gretchin).

E. Meganobs need a different ability than Devs on waagh. Be it on the charge, or a -1w when leaded like normal nobs or ...I don't know. Also, More attacks! A dual killsaw does 2a!!! Like...2! It's ludicrous. Hitting on 4+!!! The elite of the elite of orks!

F. Tankbustas are tied to ancient models and a non sense.

G.megaboss should have the same ability as warboss. Both could use +1a base. They are supposed to be scary.

Z. Many point adjustments are needed. Deff dreads, koptas, morka (revert hike), hunta, killrigs,

I already posted the points I think need to change on the suggested rules section of Dakka.

Canoptek Reanimator should work only once per battle round.

Zahndrekh, Imotekh, Trazyn and Anrakyr should get the Overlord abilities, Obyron should get the Lord abilities.

Catacomb Command Barge should have BS 2+ on all its weapons. It should have Transhuman Physiology.

Psychomancers should give enemy Battleshocked units within 9" -1 to hit and he should give his unit DS.

Canoptek Cryptothralls should lose their 4+ FNP.

Hexmark is a mess. Deathmarks should get RF D1 with ignore LOS instead of Heavy D2.

Transcendent C'tan shouldn't be able to get Relics.

Spyders should increase vehicle T instead of giving a 6+ FNP.

If I’m assigning wounds to models in a unit, say tankbustas, I can assign them to any model within 2-3” that has the same T, say slugga boys.

And the detachment and the waagh and dakka rules, the number of units without long range or bs4+, and everything else about the army

1) get rid of the box-based restrictions in the kill teams
2) Find some way for the primaris teams to not suck, of which it's basically to give them more abilities.
3) Give Proteus kill teams and Deathwatch their wargear back.
4) Get rid of the dumb wargear restrictions on proteus kill teams.
5) If they don't want us to have devastators, at least let our vets take Grav/Las cannons. At the very least give us plasma cannons back. We *really* need anti-tank. As it stands all we have are Missile launchers and Cyclone missile launchers (But not in the same team, that woould be *toooo* much. Let alone if Bikers, or vanguard vets without pistols had a chance to fight alongside them!)
6) Let the Spectrus kill team take the rest of the Phobos wargear. In a GSC dominated deep-strike meta, when a dedicated anti-deepstrike unit is bad, there's an issue.


I know this seems short, but these would go so incredibly far for Deathwatch you wouldn't believe. So much of the Dw's units got gutted by the nature of this new points system, we basically can only have a few kill teams in a list if we want to still have points free for anti-tank, more necessary than ever in this environment of T11+ vehicles.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
1) get rid of the box-based restrictions in the kill teams
2) Find some way for the primaris teams to not suck, of which it's basically to give them more abilities.
3) Give Proteus kill teams and Deathwatch their wargear back.
4) Get rid of the dumb wargear restrictions on proteus kill teams.
5) If they don't want us to have devastators, at least let our vets take Grav/Las cannons. At the very least give us plasma cannons back. We *really* need anti-tank. As it stands all we have are Missile launchers and Cyclone missile launchers (But not in the same team, that woould be *toooo* much. Let alone if Bikers, or vanguard vets without pistols had a chance to fight alongside them!)
6) Let the Spectrus kill team take the rest of the Phobos wargear. In a GSC dominated deep-strike meta, when a dedicated anti-deepstrike unit is bad, there's an issue.


I know this seems short, but these would go so incredibly far for Deathwatch you wouldn't believe. So much of the Dw's units got gutted by the nature of this new points system, we basically can only have a few kill teams in a list if we want to still have points free for anti-tank, more necessary than ever in this environment of T11+ vehicles.

That's definitely one way to go, but my preference is to do away with nearly all of the separate Kill Teams and just have one Primaris and one Firstborn Veteran team based on VETERANS rather than mixing line troops. It's silly that we can mix Intercessors with Assault Intercessors, but the army built around Kill Teams of veterans can't field mixed Sternguard and Bladeguard.

Lemondish wrote:

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
1) get rid of the box-based restrictions in the kill teams
2) Find some way for the primaris teams to not suck, of which it's basically to give them more abilities.
3) Give Proteus kill teams and Deathwatch their wargear back.
4) Get rid of the dumb wargear restrictions on proteus kill teams.
5) If they don't want us to have devastators, at least let our vets take Grav/Las cannons. At the very least give us plasma cannons back. We *really* need anti-tank. As it stands all we have are Missile launchers and Cyclone missile launchers (But not in the same team, that woould be *toooo* much. Let alone if Bikers, or vanguard vets without pistols had a chance to fight alongside them!)
6) Let the Spectrus kill team take the rest of the Phobos wargear. In a GSC dominated deep-strike meta, when a dedicated anti-deepstrike unit is bad, there's an issue.


I know this seems short, but these would go so incredibly far for Deathwatch you wouldn't believe. So much of the Dw's units got gutted by the nature of this new points system, we basically can only have a few kill teams in a list if we want to still have points free for anti-tank, more necessary than ever in this environment of T11+ vehicles.

That's definitely one way to go, but my preference is to do away with nearly all of the separate Kill Teams and just have one Primaris and one Firstborn Veteran team based on VETERANS rather than mixing line troops. It's silly that we can mix Intercessors with Assault Intercessors, but the army built around Kill Teams of veterans can't field mixed Sternguard and Bladeguard.

I mean, i admit i forgot about those, but absolutely mix in the bladeguard and sternguard into the fortis team. I only keep the armors separate because GW want's them to be. Also, I wnat DW vets to be seperate from the proteus because I don't feel like paying 65pts more for the exact same 5 vets. Or nearly 130Pts more for 10.

Karol wrote:
Weapon profiles so the army is actualy able to kill something else then a naked grot in the open. Then the special rules we have should be brought in line with other marines.
stats brough in line with other marines. points costs or if they are suppose to have custodes costs, then we need a custodes stat line.

Psychic powers or the psychi trait to do something besides being an outright debuff to our army or buff to oppossing armies.

The rest is secondary things and wish listing.

Tell me you're a Grey Knight player without telling me you play Grey Knights!

Everything you said is true though, Grey Knights are in a bad place atm. =(

Atleast you get still codices ....

 Formosa wrote:
For Death Guard, return all legacy of the heresy units to standard play, DG should have access to these things.

For Dark Angels, Deathwing and Ravenwing detachments.

And a combination Deathwing/Ravenwing Det for when the Ravenwing smokes out a Fallen and the DW teleport in for capture.

For Deathwatch Specifically:

Indomitus Kill Team seems like easily the best designed of the bunch. I think they should all be a bit more like this.

Proteus Kill Team is strong, but I think it would be better designed if they cut the points a bit and reduced Terminators to 0-2 or 0-3. This is probably an overall nerf, but makes the unit more varied like its supposed to be. VetVanguard need functional rules as well.

Spectrus Kill Team loses way way too much over the base units and just doesn't really work. It also really lacks a worthwhile 10th man, as neither Incursors or Reivers make any sense. At the very least they need to not choose between the Comm and Helix and the Incursor should be able to take a Mine.

Fortis Kill Team continues to be a confused batch of leftovers after Heavy Intercessors stole their lunch. At this point they mostly just need options and a focused role. This one needs a list:
- Assault Intercessors make no sense as an add on and should be a weapon swap option for the base 5 Intercessors
- Add Bladeguard to create a melee focused option with the above and Outriders.
- Desolation and Infernus marines need to be options alongside Hellblasters.

There's quite a bit I would love to see changed up but there's 2 specific examples that boggle my brain.

Ork Kommando's - Where is the Shokka Pistol?
Death Korps of Krieg - Where are the demo charges?

These kits are both really new (2021) why aren't these options in the rules?

Isn't this more appropriate for the Proposed Rules section?
For now I only have one thing to contribute: Catachans should get a bonus for being in cover, not for charging. They're jungle fighters, masters of ambush and guerrilla warfare. They should be fast in dense cover when others are slow.

You know, I feel like this Dakka community has the capability to create their own errata or patches or even editions parallel with GW. Prohammer by Mezmorki is amazing, but with this community being so active there could be a 40k Dakka Edition that is a living ruleset crafted here in the forum.

Gimme back my assault marines!!!