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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depends entirely on how efficient the Ork biology is.

Astartes for instance are canonically noted as having a super efficient digestive system. Not only can they eat stuff that’d outright kill a baseline human in nasty ways? They don’t produce a huge amount of waste - though one presumes that varies depending on exactly what they’ve just scoffed. But for “prime cuts”, what we might get say, 2,000 calories out of? An Astartes might wring 3,000 calories out of through ruthless biological efficiency.

Orks may be the same, especially with a fungal and plant part able to presumably do some kind of photosynthesis.

There is a maximum efficiency that can be obtained though, and by the account above Ghaz's space hulk was practically bursting with orkoids by the time it arrived at Armageddon. That physical material has to have come from somewhere. Asteroids and other stuff included in the hulk could explain it. It is very dependent on what the hulk contained before it was captured.

Photosynthesis on a hulk travelling through the warp? I can't envisage there being a lot of sunlight. In addition, photosynthesis doesn't create something from nothing, it fixes gaseous oxygen and CO2 into sugar using sunlight as an energy source. It is the oxygen, carbon, nitrogen etc. that living beings actually consist of (including orkoids as far as we are aware) that is not likely to be hugely abundant on an ancient, derelict space hulk in the warp. There are other possible options- I suppose one of the ships could be a bulk carrier full of nutrient gruel previously headed to a hive world or something, or as mentioned the asteroids could contain enough elements needed for organic life and orkoid matter may be able to fix them into organic material (something orkoid matter is likely able to do).

My thoughts were that perhaps orkoid material can do a kind of... warposynthesis, using warp energy to power the growth. The less bizarre form would be substituting light in processes fixing oxygen and carbon in a similar manner to photosynthesis. The more exciting form would be creating fresh organic orkoid matter whole cloth from warp energy.

Edit: to clarify, this is all theorycrafting based on what has been published. It isn't even confirmed that Orks can photosynthesise to my knowledge.

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 Flinty wrote:

 YeeeMako wrote:
Aye, although unlike the Spartans, ork societies seem to be actually functional. I guess, contrary to popular belief, it *is* easy being green.

Ork societies do not function because they do not exist. They work only so far as GW states that Orks exist across the galaxy, and that the race is capable of waging large scale warfare across interplanetary and interstellar distances.

Everything else is supposition on our part. There is probably more thought out into the issue in this thread than GW authors have ever put into it, even considering the 1st edition ork books

Fun to discuss though

I'd say there is a mix of obscure sources, extrapolation, and supposition.

You don’t need Actual Sunlight for photosynthesis though? By my limited understanding you just need the right wavelengths of light (no I could tell you what those are).

Add in atmospheric nutrients like yeast and gubbins, and Orks being made from Space God Magic, and who truly knows.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You don’t need Actual Sunlight for photosynthesis though? By my limited understanding you just need the right wavelengths of light (no I could tell you what those are).

Add in atmospheric nutrients like yeast and gubbins, and Orks being made from Space God Magic, and who truly knows.

I mean, there's such a thing as void whales in 40K's version of the galaxy, clearly what's possible according to the rules of the setting is quite wide! I think all of this stuff plays a factor - who's to say what an ork could make use of, even if sunlight wasn't available, given that they were designed to be tough as nails?

In many ways, they're like the Xenomorph, if the Xenomorph could be found regularly at Millwall match-days. No matter what, you're always in danger of underestimating them.

 Flinty wrote:

 YeeeMako wrote:
Aye, although unlike the Spartans, ork societies seem to be actually functional. I guess, contrary to popular belief, it *is* easy being green.

Ork societies do not function because they do not exist. They work only so far as GW states that Orks exist across the galaxy, and that the race is capable of waging large scale warfare across interplanetary and interstellar distances.

Everything else is supposition on our part. There is probably more thought out into the issue in this thread than GW authors have ever put into it, even considering the 1st edition ork books

Which is part of the enjoyment for me: have a fun chat about suppositions we can make from a partially fleshed out fiction. But we obviously overthink it if we compare to GW writers . But hey, makes me happy, so I don't care!


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Good point on the void whales. Clearly, there are ways to feed in the void apparently. maybe the orks master one of those/ or it has been encoded into them.

 Flinty wrote:

 YeeeMako wrote:
Aye, although unlike the Spartans, ork societies seem to be actually functional. I guess, contrary to popular belief, it *is* easy being green.

Ork societies do not function because they do not exist. They work only so far as GW states that Orks exist across the galaxy, and that the race is capable of waging large scale warfare across interplanetary and interstellar distances.

Everything else is supposition on our part. There is probably more thought out into the issue in this thread than GW authors have ever put into it, even considering the 1st edition ork books

You spill wor Grot?



You call wor Squig a pointy ear?

how dare you speak ill of the only true ork reference out there

No, really though, for all outdated (since several things were retconned) it might be, when I read it on Taran I was like. Wow.

Whilst far from immune from edition revision? Orky Kultur has remained mostly intact.

It’s something that’s been added to (getting physically larger the more they fight and survive most notably, and their reproductive cycle), but very, very little has been actively contradicted since those hallowed pages were first laid down. And so…..remain current!

Yey that's the spirit, although the reproduction method in my opinion lorewise changes a lot of things, it's so much more effective.

But 99% is still canon, even if sometimes orverlooked like the tinboyz.

What it does like no other publication since, is really set the tone, spirit. Make you feel the orkness, in short. For that, it is head and shoulders above other publications about orks to me.

Well, they've never said that Tinboyz *aren't* a thing, right? They've just never mentioned them since - and as the Squats prove, even death may not turn out to be quite the permanent thing it's held to be, eh!

Even on the reproduction?

Clapped out old Orks wandered off. Wild Boyz found the main tribe. And that’s as much as Orks cared.

Fun thing? Both could be true!

It’s not like Orks have any interest in taking a census. Any spores developing within the established community grow up in a certain concentration of Orks, and their peculiar psychic gestalt.

Those spored from Old Orks wandering off into the wilderness would only have had each other as their gestalt, and so didn’t absorb the same type of psychic signature.

Finger crossed someday tinboyz'll make their grand come back


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Even on the reproduction?

Clapped out old Orks wandered off. Wild Boyz found the main tribe. And that’s as much as Orks cared.

Fun thing? Both could be true!

It’s not like Orks have any interest in taking a census. Any spores developing within the established community grow up in a certain concentration of Orks, and their peculiar psychic gestalt.

Those spored from Old Orks wandering off into the wilderness would only have had each other as their gestalt, and so didn’t absorb the same type of psychic signature.

Never looked at it this way. But. that's suddenly even better

Y'know, on the track of logistics/economy... I think we've pretty well thrashed out how the orks manage things on a planetary scale, but is there any fluff we know of that sheds light on how they might operate (or fail to operate) multiplanetary empires? How does the Overfiend run Octarius, for example? Do they just leave relatively trusted stooges in charge and hope for the best, or is there a way a Warboss/Warlord can run these things more directly?

Actually you said it, I think they was some insights in the war for octarius (the fun one, with orks and nids). But unfortunatly mostly relations wioth freebooterz and hierarchy if i'm not mistaken. Someone to confirm or correct?

Well, I feel we’ve comfortably established Orks establish pretty robust supply lines and infrastructure without ever really thinking about it. It’s all done on instinct.

For interstellar? Pretty much the same, but with added piracy against literally anyone and anything that looks good for a fight, or has plenty of stuff to nick, ideally both.

Also, from my personal 40K inspired playlist? Some very, very silly Oi!, essentially punk music for Football Hooligans, which always puts me in an Orky frame of mind. Just adjust the lyrics a bit to make it really Orky.

Certainly “call in the army” bit for Orks would be “this is a really good scrap, let everyone know!” rather than “well this get out of hand”

Ahh, now there's a fair shout. Always turned to Motorhead for my orky mood music, myself, but I can appreciate that Oi! fits the bill just as well!

And yeah, I think we've established that they do the basics out of instinct - but there's fluff about, say, Ghazghull leaving trusted lieutenants behind on certain worlds he wants held, and that presumably is a fairly conscious choice. After all, you've got to figure out who's least likely to backstab you once you're off battering the 'umies elsewhere, right?

That's what's tricky with orks delegating: you can never know if he fears you enough to not take advantage of your absence...

I think that might be more ensuring the world is held his way.

I mean, deposit a couple hundred million Orks and their gear on a given planet, and you can sure they’ll be sufficient nuisance to keep it from doing anything else than defending itself.

But….to ensure some master plan of logistics is kind of, more or less,roughly adhered to? Put someone well ‘ard who understands da plan in charge, confident they’re both ‘ard and clevva enough to maintain position and deliver the goods.


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 YeeeMako wrote:
Ahh, now there's a fair shout. Always turned to Motorhead for my orky mood music, myself, but I can appreciate that Oi! fits the bill just as well!

And yeah, I think we've established that they do the basics out of instinct - but there's fluff about, say, Ghazghull leaving trusted lieutenants behind on certain worlds he wants held, and that presumably is a fairly conscious choice. After all, you've got to figure out who's least likely to backstab you once you're off battering the 'umies elsewhere, right?

For me it’s always Oi! over metal for Orks. It just has that joyous edge to it.

Problem with photosynthesis thesis is: Fungus doesn't like UV- and it's not a plant. GW put the whole "Orks have chlorophyll somewhere in their blood" to explain why their skin is green. Tolkien described orc skin as pallid or some as blackish- and he got the idea from the epic of Beowulf. When listing Grendel's family tree, he is said to be related to Ogres, Ettins and "Orcneas". Now, being European, one might think of Orkney island- but "-neas" was just a plural msuffix, much like we'd use an S. The Roman god Orcus was a god of death, so for years it was interpreted that Orcs were big strong ghouls or zombies. Then, Tolkien flipped the idea and said they ate the dead, but were alive (and twisted elves, in his mythology).
Went and did a bit of searching: you have Spiderman to thank for orcs turning green. When the villain Green Goblin came out, what with the confusion of calling Orcs "Goblins" in the Hobbit, all got lumped together and got green skin. Remember Sam and Frodo get confused for Goblins when they're in orcish armor- there's a suspension of disbelief for stupid orcs/ gobbos but "Oi! Dey's not green like us!.. But dey's stil orcs- deys wearing ar armoor.." would REALLY be stretching it. So, LOTR Greenskins are not.

I apologize for my need to be nerdy and possibly derailing the topic and/ or going off on a tangent.

Thanks for the tangent, to be fair the only other non GW ORKS I deal with are King's boutny, were there green but unremarkable (the game is btw) or Elder scrolls, where they are not so Green as dark skinned in Skyrim (and goofy green in oblivion because you know. Graphics of those blessed times).

On delegating to an Ork a whole planetary operation.

If I were da boss, since I'm da clevvest 'ere obviously, I'd be worried that whenever I come back to see how the tasks I gave over to him are going, I'm actually welcomed by blasta salvos in my general direction. So as usual, but on a bigger scale, it comes down to whether or not the boss is able to assert his position by bashing ambitious would be bosses over the head.

 TheChrispyOne wrote:

Problem with photosynthesis thesis is: Fungus doesn't like UV- and it's not a plant. GW put the whole "Orks have chlorophyll somewhere in their blood" to explain why their skin is green.

Well, strictly speaking Orkoids are not fungal. They are aliens with a symbiotic make up between an animal-like component and a fungal/algal like component. They won't fit into any of our current Earth domains, being engineered aliens. See the quote below:


I think the phrase "plant-like" is particularly pertinent. Orks seem to be a little bit like lichen.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think that might be more ensuring the world is held his way.

I mean, deposit a couple hundred million Orks and their gear on a given planet, and you can sure they’ll be sufficient nuisance to keep it from doing anything else than defending itself.

But….to ensure some master plan of logistics is kind of, more or less,roughly adhered to? Put someone well ‘ard who understands da plan in charge, confident they’re both ‘ard and clevva enough to maintain position and deliver the goods.

True, true, and obviously orks don't *always* backstab each other, otherwise you couldn't explain how it is that Warbosses are consistently able to build (relatively) stable retinues. Presumably a lot of the Ladz figure that sooner or later a stray round will improve their career prospects for them - no ork dies of old age, as they say - so why bother doing the hard work yourself when you need to be ready for the post-krump succession scrap?

I guess we could speculate then that it sort of works like... "I'm leavin' you in charge ere, I need Lotz of gunz and tanks and such, get 'em to me as quick as yer can and don't muck about wiv it, put 'em on this moon roughly at this time, uvverwise do what yer like" - crude but potentially effective.

(fair point on the musical accompaniment, though I'd make the potentially controversial argument that Motorhead's live-fast-die-young stuff and rhythm style makes them more akin to hard rock than metal and therefore a bit more suitable - but I appreciate that's strictly speaking not a point based on Warhammer lore!)

Orks aren’t without treachery, that’s true. But generally speaking, so long as you’re leading the lads into decent fights, with plenty of loot? Your position is fairly safe.

That’s true for a Warboss, all the way down to a Nob leading a Mob. Provided you’re seen to be a strong leader, you’re less likely to risk someone wanting to replace you, because they’ll lack the popular support.

The trick with running planetary scale underlings is that while you can easily bash that petulant nob over the head if he starts being too fussy to your taste, you can't do it as easily when exacting your legitimate violence requires you to actually travel back to that world were said underlung is acting dumb, then descend on said world, and finally stump him good.

By the time the boss is aware, goes its way there, makes planetfall, the reluctant self proclaimed boss has had plenty of time to prepare himself.

But I guess that's precisely why very few orks actually make system scaled empires. Most of which we see in the lore are actually at war with someone out there and cohesion is achieved through the common goal of thumping that someone - in short, it takes a waaagh to maintain a cohesive ork empire.

I think that's the key to all of this, fluff-wise - when things are going well and the orky cause is in the ascendant, things like logistics, economy and social cohesion tend to work (relatively) smoothly. When there's difficulties, or the boyz get the feeling that maybe the big boss doesn't *actually* have a cunning plan to get into ever-bigger fights, well, that's when it starts to break down.

Just gave 3rd edition ork codex, something made me tick, it's that full fledged ork boyz need a year or so to be born, in essence.

While it's obviously stellar compared to humans or eldars, I feel it suddenly make orks way less of a tide somehow. I mean.

Or more correctly, sounds like an ork invasion can actually be easily defeated in its first year, beyond that point population ill start growing exponentially and continuously.

However, since grots are the main orkpower of ork logistics, and those are much faster to ermerge, contrary to imperial or tau logistics or whatever, the orks are probably never going to lack manpower.

Angry fungus with tusks....
Hmmmmm...

Now, that gumba screamer was cursed brother . Guess Mario's been thumping ORKS all this time.

The Imperial Armour book 8 was entirely about Imperium forces raiding an Ork held world to disrupt their logistics (including blowing up a fuel storage area) and assassinate their best Mek. Has some details into how an Ork Waagh functions logistically.

Raid on kastorel novem right? I remember having listened to it read by aborder prince but I mostly recall it being about Ork industry. I'll have to give it a new listen will on my very last week on duty...

 YeeeMako wrote:
I think that's the key to all of this, fluff-wise - when things are going well and the orky cause is in the ascendant, things like logistics, economy and social cohesion tend to work (relatively) smoothly. When there's difficulties, or the boyz get the feeling that maybe the big boss doesn't *actually* have a cunning plan to get into ever-bigger fights, well, that's when it starts to break down.

Sieges and stalemates are hard on orks. They want a straight-up fight, and prolonged inactivity will cause them to pick fights among themselves. This goes back to Tolkien and GW has embraced it.

In theory, the Ork supply chain could sustain prolonged combats, but in practice, they tend to break down because of the sheer boredom and the lack of fresh loot.

There's also the issue of attrition. Those slave armies that are worked to death...yeah, they go away. And with them goes the knowledge of how everything works. So it will start to break down and here the ork preference to jury-rig everything rather than build it to last comes into play. While we can draw analogies between Ork equipment and the simple but super-robust stuff produced by the Soviets, the fact is the Soviets didn't subsequently wildcat their ammo and try turn their T-34s into top-fuel drag racers. Orks are known to do that.