Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

I have an old pack of first born sternguard models and a set of 5 converted from the old dark angels accessory sprue and forgeworld resin SG weapons.

Can i run these as 2 groups of 5 combat patrol with 1 sgt in each?
Also can i run these as a 10 man squad with 1 sgt ?

Will be getting the codex for all details but just so that i can finish these off

Thanking you

Technicly the new sternguard are a new kit and primaris so... honestly it's going to be a bit of a "....... ask your opponent not us" situation TBH. I'd hold off building them until you get the codex though as I imagine the sternguard have lost some options

Yes you can.

Thanks for advice

It might be worth waiting until we get a solid list of how the squad can be geared.

I’m particularly worried about how the sarge’s options are worded. Looking at the sprues, can he have both a rifle and a CC weapon?

GW is all over the place, it’s hard to tell how they are going to go on anything. We are so close to codex, I’d wait before gluing anything.

 Nevelon wrote:

I’m particularly worried about how the sarge’s options are worded. Looking at the sprues, can he have both a rifle and a CC weapon?

Apparently he can.

Yeah, recent Auspex video talks about how the Sergeant can have a Chainsword/Power Sword/Fist in addition to a rifle.

Good to hear. Looking at the pics on GW’s site, I didn’t see that shown. And with the “what you can build from the kit” nonsense restrictions, I was unsure. Paused building mine from the Leviathan box until I know for sure. Sarge there just has a combi. He’s going to need a CC toy if he can have both.

Might just end up using him as a regular Combi-Weapon guy.

Weirdly, the video mentioned that the Pyrecannon is a swap for the HB. So the unit always comes with a HB - no option not to take it - and it can be swapped out for the big beefy flamer.

Pyrecannon just makes me wish there was a proper Infernus kit, with 1-in-5 able to replace their Pyreblaster with a Pyrecannon.

With this info, the lev sarge is going to have his bling trimmed off to join the back half of the squad.

Looking at the current rules, just a squad of riflemen looks apealing. Not that the HB looks bad, but I could see wanting to take advantage of the weight of fire/mobility of just a sqad of guns. Plus I could tag the HB guy from the kit to join the company command squad I need to build for my champ.

I’ll track down that video after work.

BrianDavion wrote:
Technicly the new sternguard are a new kit and primaris so... honestly it's going to be a bit of a "....... ask your opponent not us" situation TBH. I'd hold off building them until you get the codex though as I imagine the sternguard have lost some options

^This is such a sad thing to see posted on so many levels.

Seriously, if you showed up with a 10-man Firstborn Sternguard squad where half of them have bolters*, half of them have combi-weapons*, one dude has a Heavy Bolter, and the Sergeant has a Power Sword, there should be absolutely no reason not to allow them.


*Or any combination thereof, given that Combi-Weapons aren't specialised anymore, as they're all the same.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Seriously, if you showed up with a 10-man Firstborn Sternguard squad where half of them have bolters*, half of them have combi-weapons*, one dude has a Heavy Bolter, and the Sergeant has a Power Sword, there should be absolutely no reason not to allow them.


*Or any combination thereof, given that Combi-Weapons aren't specialised anymore, as they're all the same.

Should even be able to use the old guys with heavy flamers. Or pyreblasters or whatever the kids are calling them these days.

That reminds me, I have like 4 more boxes of Sternguard I haven't built.

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Technicly the new sternguard are a new kit and primaris so... honestly it's going to be a bit of a "....... ask your opponent not us" situation TBH. I'd hold off building them until you get the codex though as I imagine the sternguard have lost some options

^This is such a sad thing to see posted on so many levels.

I mean frankly *I'D* not care and I think most people wouldn't. but always best to find out locally what the thoughts are more then anything.

I find it fitting that the only Firstborn kit I have assembled are the Sternguard.

I will continue using them.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Technicly the new sternguard are a new kit and primaris so... honestly it's going to be a bit of a "....... ask your opponent not us" situation TBH. I'd hold off building them until you get the codex though as I imagine the sternguard have lost some options

^This is such a sad thing to see posted on so many levels.

I mean frankly *I'D* not care and I think most people wouldn't. but always best to find out locally what the thoughts are more then anything.

I'd look at the Terrain. If both squads can fully hide or not fully hide behind all the pieces then it makes no difference. If the old Sternguard are short enough to hide where the new Sternguard can't then they'e got an advantage. I'd keep at least one "Primaris" Sternguard around to swap in for view checking if I was using the old models for situations like that.

Of course I also think if you put optional/extra backpack banners and such on models, that shouldn't count for view checking either.

You'd be that anal about a few mm?

They're both Sternguard models. They have the same weapons, are on the same size bases.

Breton wrote:

I'd look at the Terrain. If both squads can fully hide or not fully hide behind all the pieces then it makes no difference. If the old Sternguard are short enough to hide where the new Sternguard can't then they'e got an advantage. I'd keep at least one "Primaris" Sternguard around to swap in for view checking if I was using the old models for situations like that.

Just no. The older non-primaris marines are shorter than the later ones too, and no one has ever cared. People should be able to use their old models in peace.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Technicly the new sternguard are a new kit and primaris so... honestly it's going to be a bit of a "....... ask your opponent not us" situation TBH. I'd hold off building them until you get the codex though as I imagine the sternguard have lost some options

^This is such a sad thing to see posted on so many levels.

I mean frankly *I'D* not care and I think most people wouldn't. but always best to find out locally what the thoughts are more then anything.

I'd look at the Terrain. If both squads can fully hide or not fully hide behind all the pieces then it makes no difference. If the old Sternguard are short enough to hide where the new Sternguard can't then they'e got an advantage. I'd keep at least one "Primaris" Sternguard around to swap in for view checking if I was using the old models for situations like that.

Of course I also think if you put optional/extra backpack banners and such on models, that shouldn't count for view checking either.

How many non-ruin pieces you see where the few mm's matter?

In any case it's not like your like/dislike matters much compared to GW's official rules. Old models are named sternguard veterans, datasheet says sternguard veterans, GW legal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You'd be that anal about a few mm?

They're both Sternguard models. They have the same weapons, are on the same size bases.

To someone else? No. To myself? Yeah. It feels a little like "modeling for advantage" to use the shorter guys who get more cover. If I didn't have the new guys yet, I'd use the old ones and prioritize getting the new ones.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

How many non-ruin pieces you see where the few mm's matter?

Don't know, that's why I said I'd check. GW is really just beginning to get into scenery manufacturing - and there are a number of third party options which is why I said I'd check if the old version has a gameplay advantage - on a case by case basis - same reason I have a Marneus Calgar with and Without a 3D Printed banner pole with his personal banner. If my opponent agrees that Space Marines do not actually have a vital organ on a banner pole, I'll use the banner pole version for the cooler looking model, otherwise I'll use the stock version.

As someone who has used legacy models my entire 40k history, nobody has ever complained. Now I cap out at friendly game store tournaments, nothing big time. YMMV. But the scale creep from RTB01s to modern marines is similar to late-era firstborn to primaris.

Yes, some people may have an issue with it. But some will not.

And with GW dropping the Primaris keyword to differentiate things, this is simply a new recut of an old unit. You should not have an issue with legacy minis unless an event specifically has rules about that.