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Does splitting the demons into the 4 cult marine codex definitely mean no undivided demons codex? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Does splitting the demons into the 4 cult marine codex definitely mean no undivided demons codex? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

We're at the point now where there would be no real reason for anyone to buy a daemon codex. The grotmas detachments covered the most obvious use-case for a dedicated codex; if it's not going to have god-specific armylists then what else would go in?

Most likely they just keep undivided daemons as a free index for at least the rest of 10th.

 xttz wrote:

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Does splitting the demons into the 4 cult marine codex definitely mean no undivided demons codex? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

We're at the point now where there would be no real reason for anyone to buy a daemon codex. The grotmas detachments covered the most obvious use-case for a dedicated codex; if it's not going to have god-specific armylists then what else would go in?

Most likely they just keep undivided daemons as a free index for at least the rest of 10th.

I agree, you'll likely see belakor slip into Chaos Marines in 11th with a detachment for pulling stuff in out the other books.

Dudeface wrote:
Wtf is even happening. Imperial knights vanished, Salamanders looking like they get a release and confirmation daemons go bye-bye.

I knew this was going to be an Emperor's Children show, even though Imperial Knights were up next on the roadmap. Then being queue-jumped by three more codices...I'd rather they hadn't mentioned them at all to be honest, or just do the right thing and put them in the Ad-Mech and Chaos Marine codices and be done with it. Not mad or anything - just a game of toy soldiers - but I've been delaying other purchases based on the roadmap they'd given us.

The ECs are of course nice and I suppose if the Daemons are going then they might as well get all four chaos codices done in one go. I think the most awesome way to say good bye to Chaos Daemons would be through a 40K Quest game; Inquisition vs Daemons. Just saying...

GW are 100% doing to Demons in 40K what they did to demons in AoS where its worked really well honestly. Each demon army has a very unique look and lets face it, lore wise demon armies aren't supposed to appear as all 4 gods at once (the 4 fight each other all the time). Splintering them out means that there's MUCH more design room for more models for each of the chosen gods and demons.

Honestly whilst it is sad to see combined armies of demons go; at the same throw its not removing models; its adding more through separation. Plus you'll still have generic Chaos armies (or Slaves to Darkness in AoS) and the option of allying in demons. In AoS you have the ancient rivalry limits so a Khorne army can't take Slaanesh allies, but otherwise you can still throw down some mixed forces

I feel like 40k Daemons have never quite managed to find their niche. They've always been either 4 small sub-factions crammed into one book, or a really non-thematic amalgamation of all the best stuff from each god. Putting them with their respective Legion allows GW to integrate them more effectively with their mortal allies and also allows more scope for detachments in each Codex. Seems like the best way forward to me.

Slipspace wrote:
I feel like 40k Daemons have never quite managed to find their niche. They've always been either 4 small sub-factions crammed into one book, or a really non-thematic amalgamation of all the best stuff from each god. Putting them with their respective Legion allows GW to integrate them more effectively with their mortal allies and also allows more scope for detachments in each Codex. Seems like the best way forward to me.

Yep I'll also be really interested to see if GW starts to make more game specific demon models; or even fully splits them at some point in the future. Things like the Slaanesh chariots are awesome kits ,but they've always felt just a bit out of place in 40K. A huge chariot that rides over your foes like a lawn-mower works awesome in rank and file armies of AoS and Old World. In 40K it felt just a bit out of plate to not really have any ranged option or alternative ways of dealing damage.

I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

I thought I'd feel more excited about EC than I am.

The Spear Lord Exultant looks great as well as the Noise Marines.

But the rest of the range isn't really doing much for me.

Tyel wrote:
I thought I'd feel more excited about EC than I am.

The Spear Lord Exultant looks great as well as the Noise Marines.

But the rest of the range isn't really doing much for me.

I think it’s the Noise Marines that are letting it down for me. I thought they’d be the unit you’d look at and think ‘wow, the EC are really messed up’, but they basically look like Havocs with some speakers on their backpacks. The Kakophani from 30k, proto Noise Marines from 10,000 years ago, looked more messed up than these.

Slipspace wrote:
I feel like 40k Daemons have never quite managed to find their niche. They've always been either 4 small sub-factions crammed into one book, or a really non-thematic amalgamation of all the best stuff from each god. Putting them with their respective Legion allows GW to integrate them more effectively with their mortal allies and also allows more scope for detachments in each Codex. Seems like the best way forward to me.

I think if Daemons were ever going to really work as an army of their own they needed to go more heavily into undivided Daemons, in order to fill the core of the army, with the god specific ones then slotting into complementary parts. Because yeah, lore wise the gods don't get along, so a mix of just the god Daemons isn't the most logical.

 Overread wrote:
Plus you'll still have generic Chaos armies (or Slaves to Darkness in AoS) and the option of allying in demons.

Was this part confirmed?

oh, the EC models are perfect

Lucius is great. what i want out of a named character for the army. very flashy model, nd i love the whip

the chaos lord is also cool. seems fun to paint. the noise character is a lot better, tho. his flashy backpack really is what i want out of an EC character. and with his two pistols, maybe he becomes a 30k moritat

noise marines are fantastic. a little weird that that the units of six rumor was true, but i'm not complaining. they're exactly what 40k noise marines should look like, in my opinion (also i really like the green hair they're being painted with; fun touch)

blademaster guys are whatever. neat, not great. their backpacks are the coolest part of the novels

big fan of there being a line troop unit. definitely gonna be picking up a lot of these to use as tacticals in 30k. i think they'd look great with the purple

and then hearing that demons are finally going into the legion codexes is very nice to hear. a change that's been a long time coming, but will all the same improve 40k

curious what the releases will be for the other legions! i know that kson robots is rumored, and DG are probably just going to be the character + added demons, but i hope they release the second half of WE this year

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Plus you'll still have generic Chaos armies (or Slaves to Darkness in AoS) and the option of allying in demons.

Was this part confirmed?

I'm inferring it since you can do so in AoS and GW are clearly going to keep their core Chaos Space Marine army around

 Overread wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Plus you'll still have generic Chaos armies (or Slaves to Darkness in AoS) and the option of allying in demons.

Was this part confirmed?

I'm inferring it since you can do so in AoS and GW are clearly going to keep their core Chaos Space Marine army around

Agreed, but I was thinking more of including Daemons with Chaos Knights.

Well, the big thing with daemons is they kinda didnt work as monogod armies as each god has some glaringly large capability gaps and they are largely one dimensional in terms of what they do in that half of the units in each gods roster are just minor variations of the baseline lesser daemon and dont bring much different to the fold. As a mish-mash they kinda work better but theres obvious thematic/lore issues with that.

They will probably work better being folded in with their respective CSM legions as the non-daemon units will fill the gaps, and likewise they bring capabilities that fill in holes in the CAM army lists, problem is that it will probably just further dilute the themes of those army lists in the same way that TSons was more about Tzaangors than Rubric Marines.

Part of why they have glaring gaps is because they were rolled into one army. The lack of anything ranged with Slaanesh wasn't an issue because you had Khorn and Tzeentch in there etc...

So yes putting them into their Chaos Space Marine armies fills those gaps; but also means that now they demon armies are split GW can start to make new models that fill those niches since mono-demon is likely going to be a long term option in each of the codex going forward. Now you CAN give Slaanesh demons some beefier heavy hitters cause you won't rely on Khorne and Nurgle for them ;

mortar_crew wrote:
I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

Writing is on the wall there, it's legends in sigmar, so I can see it going in 40k. It's intrinsically tied to the somewhat cursed defiler kit.

Dudeface wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

Writing is on the wall there, it's legends in sigmar, so I can see it going in 40k. It's intrinsically tied to the somewhat cursed defiler kit.

I'd just slap it into CSM with Be'Lakor.

I was never happy lore-wise about multi-god daemon armies. The whole thing about chaos is that it's constantly at war with itself, and the followers of X would never think of teaming up with Y. It made characters like Abaddon more special, since he had the power to pull the various gods together into a single cause.

But as others have said, mono-god daemons had glaring gaps in capabilities that made it difficult to build competitive armies.

It would have been cool if they included fully daemon characters in these god-specific CSM codecies to allow for all-daemon armies, but you might not be able to call is Codex: Emperor's Children unless there was a summoner-style minor character or something like that. It's semantics, but call it Codex: Followers of Slaanesh. Heresy, I realize, and AoS kind of has that "Noun of God" thing going, and you don't want to confuse the customers.

Anyway, I love the new EC, top to bottom, or bottom to top if that's your proclivity. Also, those pink Land Raiders, a very bold choice! Great joyful face on that one Flawless Blade dude, nice touch. Even the "basic" EC marines are fantastic, though the bolters look a bit small in their hands. Hopefully they don't have bolter envy from the Primaris.

See, I don’t hate the soulgrinder concept, just the awful Tonka-toy model. I’d much rather they just gave us a new sculpt, maybe with god-specific options.

I definitely think demons work better worked in with their aligned legions. Definitely feel for anyone who just has a undivided demons army that won't translate well, but this really solves the longstanding chaos flavor issue and gives the whole subfaction some significant direction going forward.

I liked undivided daemon armies to represent a breach opening in reality and all sorts of randomness comes out. You used to see that in a lot of older art.

Waves upon waves of screaming, random daemons really appealed to me. Monogod daemon armies don't have the same feel...

Turns out Mira Lensk is just so popular that she get's TWO models now. Well who'd a thunk it?

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
I was never happy lore-wise about multi-god daemon armies. The whole thing about chaos is that it's constantly at war with itself, and the followers of X would never think of teaming up with Y. It made characters like Abaddon more special, since he had the power to pull the various gods together into a single cause.

Just imagine a rift in reality to a realm of unnamed horror. All kinds of deamons just pouring out as they catch the scent of poor mortal souls oozing their juicy emotions.

I would be more bothered with the concept of a daemon general that managed to gather a unified force of his patron god and break out of the warp for an organized assault.

I guess the first scenario is way more 40k, and the other feels more AoS.

Wow, that EC army set really makes the Krieg one look worse, doesn't it? It actually looks like being an army!

Making the basic Slaanesh Legionnaires a dual-build kit was pretty smart, and the Chaos Lord has weapon options! Enough spare bits to dole out to the squad leaders!

World Eaters REALLY lagging behind now.

Still no updated Chaos bikers.

Dudeface wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

Writing is on the wall there, it's legends in sigmar, so I can see it going in 40k. It's intrinsically tied to the somewhat cursed defiler kit.

Completely separate stabdalone kit with no parts commonality with the defiler, actually. Despite their visual similarity they dont share any sprues.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

Writing is on the wall there, it's legends in sigmar, so I can see it going in 40k. It's intrinsically tied to the somewhat cursed defiler kit.

Completely separate stabdalone kit with no parts commonality with the defiler, actually. Despite their visual similarity they dont share any sprues.

I’m fairly certain that’s not true. The Soul Grinder is the Defiler chassis sprues with one different sprue for the organic stuff. They even seemed to share an instruction book at one point.

https://imgur.com/a/chaos-daemons-soul-grinder-instructions-f8Y0Z
https://imgur.com/a/chaos-defiler-instructions-4TQTH

 ImAGeek wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
I just hope they will not dump the soulgrinder into legends...

Writing is on the wall there, it's legends in sigmar, so I can see it going in 40k. It's intrinsically tied to the somewhat cursed defiler kit.

Completely separate stabdalone kit with no parts commonality with the defiler, actually. Despite their visual similarity they dont share any sprues.

I’m fairly certain that’s not true. The Soul Grinder is the Defiler chassis sprues with one different sprue for the organic stuff. They even seemed to share an instruction book at one point.

https://imgur.com/a/chaos-daemons-soul-grinder-instructions-f8Y0Z
https://imgur.com/a/chaos-defiler-instructions-4TQTH

I've built both over the decades, the mechanical abdomen is shared across both and you end up with left over defiler leg parts as a result iirc.

Oh yeah, I forgot I'm beyond extatic about Salamanders, but It was bed time and I'm on antidepressives so I was really sleepy.

 tauist wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Wtf is even happening. Imperial knights vanished, Salamanders looking like they get a release and confirmation daemons go bye-bye.

Daemons go bye-bye? Please elaborate?

Are they finally dropping 40K support for AOS Daemon models, or just dropping the Daemons codex and consolidating them into these CSM subfaction dexes?

*dices