Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I mean, we can say that dakkadakka is less active because 10th is a bad edition, theres no proof that isn't real. The only reason i brought up the "Dakka is a negative place" anecdote is because its been its reputation since i joined back in 8th ed.

What the reason for it is, i don't actually care, i was just pointing out that its a reality, with multiple people across multiple LGS near me that all ended up saying the same thing.

And i agree with it, i'm not asking for ultra moderation like on reddit or whatever, but there are some posters that seems to always have a hostile way of writing, which contributes to the reputation of this site.

Once again I will point out the obvious: we are on the 10th edition of 40k.

Setting aside whatever alleged defects this forum has, keeping the enthusiasm of 20 years ago going until now seems a pretty big ask.

What are the new releases for Gorkamorka? Mordheim? Battlefleet Gothic? Warhammer Fantasy Battles?

Actually, the Old World rumor thread seems to be a live wire right about now. It's almost as if impending releases drive discussion.

Less releases, less discussion.

I don't think we have to dig any deeper than that.

According to TOW thread, the game is DOA. So was LI. KT is apparently "on life support". People here call HH a dead game.

Not sure where any of this comes from.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to TOW thread, the game is DOA. So was LI. KT is apparently "on life support". People here call HH a dead game.

Not sure where any of this comes from.

Engagement is going to differ vastly between communities, countries and continents. When you haven't played a game before, or haven't seen it being played locally, the only frame of reference becomes the general engagement on the internet.

The problem is that a tight knit community typically doesn't utilize the same communication methods as those that persist on the wider internet. So outside looking in, a lack of engagement on the forums or youtube is perceived as a lack of engagement in playing the game.

With 40k in particular we are in an edition where the codex releases have been far less disruptive to balance than in the past. Less dramatic changes lead to less things to talk about. In addition we have a game that is old for a table top game. Some problems have probably persisted for so long that the old timers have become apathetic (me with aircraft). Overall the relative balance of the game is actually pretty decent so there is fundamentally less to talk about there.

There is also negativity bias and how that generates far more discussion and engagement than just enjoying oneself.


Whether the "lack of engagement" is due to apathy or if a silent majority is enjoying the game, it is impossible to know why internet discussion has declined unless we have GW's sales numbers.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Engagement is going to differ vastly between communities, countries and continents.

litterally just this.

to me, Infinity is dead because nobody plays it locally, but i know theres a community playing weekly games in the big city near me. (Although i'll argue that GW is trying its damndest to make sure LI is dead on arrival it seems)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to TOW thread, the game is DOA.

That would seem to be conflating the opinion of a couple of posters with the thread overall. My impression of that thread is that reactions are mostly fairly positive.

 insaniak wrote:
That would seem to be conflating the opinion of a couple of posters with the thread overall. My impression of that thread is that reactions are mostly fairly positive.

Fair enough. I'm willing to accept that explanation.

I honestly only participate in that thread infrequently, so mostly I just see the odd knee-jerk reaction to things (and people arguing about bases sizes! ).

I am on this forum because it is active, i was on warseer until it crashed and never recovered. and i used to go over to bolter and chainsword, but since my focus is war gaming in general not just GW stuff this forum is much more in that line.

I do not tend to pay much attention to anything about current 40K anymore including all the current edition topics here. but since the question was about the forums-i see the guys at the store playing it and i know it is not for me as it doesn't feel like 40K anymore (or even a wargame) so i play what i like rather it is our house 5th ed 40K or some other GW specialist game or just non GW games in general. there are loads of great ones out there. it is no longer worth my time to pay attention to an edition that i pretty well dislike everything about or a company i will never buy anything from again, when there is so much positive i can get from other games/companies out there. our store has a local discord but it is with people i see for hours every week when we game, so there isn't much game theory to discuss it is usually to set up for games or share gaming resources and memes. aside from the occasional online voice chat for games we all play online.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to TOW thread, the game is DOA. So was LI. KT is apparently "on life support". People here call HH a dead game.

Not sure where any of this comes from.

This also confuses me. Killteam, for example, is the last game system I bought a GW product for in the summer

Haven't read through the entire thread to see if this has been mentioned but the tactics area looks fairly active.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to TOW thread, the game is DOA. So was LI. KT is apparently "on life support". People here call HH a dead game.

Not sure where any of this comes from.

This is where I see the negativity on Dakka. Everything that isn't 40k or AoS (or maybe AoS as well I don't really look in on those threads anymore) is a "dead game" or "unsupported" and the reasoning seems to be pretty much exclusively "I want X and GW isn't giving me what I want".

HH is the big one for me because it has been my bread and butter for some time now. I agree that certain releases have been a bit odd with timescales but then I also have the retrospective ability to look at how HH used to be and be much happier that in the past year or so, a huge portion of the Heresy range has massively dropped in price and become far easier to deal with in plastic form. The game has mainline status and I can walk into a GW shop and buy a Spartan or a Leviathan.

But then I see people complaining that new kit X doesn't have part Y and it irritates me that the legacy of HH from those earliest days is being trampled on by whiney children who complain when everything isn't spoon-fed onto their painting table. Oh no, there isn't a Bolt Pistol in the Mk6 Tactical Kit? How will you ever source a Bolt Pistol, there is simply no way to do it from the hundred other Space Marine kits.

Now it might just be a few people who keep this attitude going, but those people are constantly doing it, which makes it annoying. They can't let the people who are enjoying the new stuff enjoy it and have to remind everyone just how much they aren't enjoying it.

Just my two pennies.

 Gert wrote:

Now it might just be a few people who keep this attitude going,...

... In which case that's a few people being negative, not the forum being negative.

 Gert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to TOW thread, the game is DOA. So was LI. KT is apparently "on life support". People here call HH a dead game.

Not sure where any of this comes from.

This is where I see the negativity on Dakka. Everything that isn't 40k or AoS (or maybe AoS as well I don't really look in on those threads anymore) is a "dead game" or "unsupported" and the reasoning seems to be pretty much exclusively "I want X and GW isn't giving me what I want".

HH is the big one for me because it has been my bread and butter for some time now. I agree that certain releases have been a bit odd with timescales but then I also have the retrospective ability to look at how HH used to be and be much happier that in the past year or so, a huge portion of the Heresy range has massively dropped in price and become far easier to deal with in plastic form. The game has mainline status and I can walk into a GW shop and buy a Spartan or a Leviathan.

But then I see people complaining that new kit X doesn't have part Y and it irritates me that the legacy of HH from those earliest days is being trampled on by whiney children who complain when everything isn't spoon-fed onto their painting table. Oh no, there isn't a Bolt Pistol in the Mk6 Tactical Kit? How will you ever source a Bolt Pistol, there is simply no way to do it from the hundred other Space Marine kits.

Now it might just be a few people who keep this attitude going, but those people are constantly doing it, which makes it annoying. They can't let the people who are enjoying the new stuff enjoy it and have to remind everyone just how much they aren't enjoying it.

Just my two pennies.

You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought. If you do then you should at least be able to buy what you need (and only what you need) online. I remember when that wasn't an issue because GW hadn't yet stomped out the secondary market bits sellers... So yeah, GW can sell the stuff needed on the box or feth off at this point.

Yeah but this has resulted in the drastic loss of options within the game, and, now with 10th, is even impacting the structure of units (Spawn being an obvious example, and why things like Ripper "Swarms" top out at 3 bases).

 Canadian 5th wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought.

I can't remember the last time GW sold a unit where you couldn't build a valid loadout without using parts from other kits.

The usual complaint comes from people wanting to min-max options given in the codex without even putting in any effort to kitbash it themselves, which is a pretty crappy attitude for a game styled after a historical.

 catbarf wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought.

I can't remember the last time GW sold a unit where you couldn't build a valid loadout without using parts from other kits.

The usual complaint comes from people wanting to min-max options given in the codex without even putting in any effort to kitbash it themselves, which is a pretty crappy attitude for a game styled after a historical.

Catachan Jungle Fighter infantry squad with a Heavy Weapon Team, or with any Special Weapons that aren't a flamer.
Oh, and Cadians if you want to run them as a regular Infantry Squad and take a Heavy Weapon (and let's not forget that Cadians only just got the ability to take a Plasma/Melta/Sniper Rifle without needing to buy an extra Command Squad box in 2022, a cool 19 years after the last Cadian refresh).

Also also, let's not assume that the majority of people who want to buy bits individually are both min-maxers and unwilling to kitbash. There's plenty of reason to lament the loss of individual part purchases for people who have a specific unit/theme in mind, or want to run a fluffy force (remember, some factions/regiments/etc have a preference for certain weapons), and GW plastic is nowhere near cheap enough to wave off buying a whole extra kit just to get some spare parts. Hell, my first kitbash was a Griffon Mortar - I bought a Demolisher Cannon barrel second-hand for the muzzle, no way would buying an entire Leman Russ to get that have been feasible or even remotely warranted, and I didn't have the skill or time to try crafting a muzzle from plasticard or greenstuff.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought. If you do then you should at least be able to buy what you need (and only what you need) online. I remember when that wasn't an issue because GW hadn't yet stomped out the secondary market bits sellers... So yeah, GW can sell the stuff needed on the box or feth off at this point.

Those bitz sellers are still commonplace in the UK (where Gert's profile flag says they are from). I'm not entirely sure on what basis GW was able to suppress bitz sellers in North America.

 Haighus wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought. If you do then you should at least be able to buy what you need (and only what you need) online. I remember when that wasn't an issue because GW hadn't yet stomped out the secondary market bits sellers... So yeah, GW can sell the stuff needed on the box or feth off at this point.

Those bitz sellers are still commonplace in the UK (where Gert's profile flag says they are from). I'm not entirely sure on what basis GW was able to suppress bitz sellers in North America.

When GW shut down their own bits service there was a very popular store in north America called "the war store" who would buy GW kits break them up and sell the bits both in the store and online. he ended up getting a cease and desist notice from GW threatening legal action if he continued his bits service.

 aphyon wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought. If you do then you should at least be able to buy what you need (and only what you need) online. I remember when that wasn't an issue because GW hadn't yet stomped out the secondary market bits sellers... So yeah, GW can sell the stuff needed on the box or feth off at this point.

Those bitz sellers are still commonplace in the UK (where Gert's profile flag says they are from). I'm not entirely sure on what basis GW was able to suppress bitz sellers in North America.

When GW shut down their own bits service there was a very popular store in north America called "the war store" who would buy GW kits break them up and sell the bits both in the store and online. he ended up getting a cease and desist notice from GW threatening legal action if he continued his bits service.

In addition to this, GW has shut down numerous bit selling operations on EBay, such as BulletBits from a few years back. They also aggressively gak down Etsy and eBay stores selling pieces which look remotely like GW stuff, and I’m not talking about re-casts or straight copies either.

Also: While I understand the origins of HH from scrounging bits boxes to make accurate conversions, making the product mainline should get rid of those requirements. If every legion is encouraged to run melee elements, and fully half of the legions are encouraged to run predominantly melee elements, there should be a better method to make those generic melee squads than “buy the tactical box, then drop an additional $180 on 4 assault squad boxes to salvage bolt pistols and chainswords.”

Especially when GW discontinues that box almost half a year before they release the HH melee dudes!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but this has resulted in the drastic loss of options within the game, and, now with 10th, is even impacting the structure of units (Spawn being an obvious example, and why things like Ripper "Swarms" top out at 3 bases).

GW sucks. They could easily put more value into their kits be that via higher model counts per box or via including loadouts instead of cutting and consolidating them. They could also officially kill WYSIWYG and then what the model had wouldn't impact its rules.

They will do none of these things because they don't have any profit incentive to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 catbarf wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought.

I can't remember the last time GW sold a unit where you couldn't build a valid loadout without using parts from other kits.

The usual complaint comes from people wanting to min-max options given in the codex without even putting in any effort to kitbash it themselves, which is a pretty crappy attitude for a game styled after a historical.

Or GW could put enough bits to make all of a unit's load-outs in the box with the models. That would also work.

 insaniak wrote:
... In which case that's a few people being negative, not the forum being negative.

Bit weird that you cut out the next sentence of my post which makes the point clearer. If you have the same people constantly being negative, it doesn't matter if there are only a few of them, they're always there.

Like it or not, the people who post the most are going to get seen the most and there are huge chunks of Heresy threads filled with people complaining and whinging. I come to the forum for background and Heresy discussion and not so long ago both of those parts of the forum were toxic as hell and almost made me dump the site.

So from my point of view, Dakka is a pretty negative place.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy a separate kit or hunt through a bits box to complete a unit you just bought. If you do then you should at least be able to buy what you need (and only what you need) online.

In principle sure but its irrelevant when the bits missing from those kits are some of the most common in circulation. If you're going to complain about a kit not having a Bolt Pistol, you deserve to be laughed at.

I remember when that wasn't an issue because GW hadn't yet stomped out the secondary market bits sellers... So yeah, GW can sell the stuff needed on the box or feth off at this point.

Dunno where you are mate but I can easily go on eBay or a fair few bitz sellers to get what I need. Or I do it the old-fashioned way and just speak to fellow players.
There are super easy solutions but people like you would rather whinge than take two seconds to fix the problem. Spoon fed is the only way you'll do it.

With the aggressive and rude tone of this post being yet another argument in favour of the theory that those people who talk about negativity are those same people who make the place unpleasant.

 Gert wrote:

Like it or not, the people who post the most are going to get seen the most and there are huge chunks of Heresy threads filled with people complaining and whinging. I come to the forum for background and Heresy discussion and not so long ago both of those parts of the forum were toxic as hell and almost made me dump the site.

So from my point of view, Dakka is a pretty negative place.

While you are of course entitled to your point of view, that is a door that swings both ways. I recognize you pretty well Gert. Mostly because I find you an extremely antagonistic poster who I feel gets incredibly aggro on anyone that disagrees with your stances.

Yes, I realize that's a bit Oroborous of me to say, given my largest contributions to the site for a couple of years has been distaste for GW's in ability to competently design 40k / encouraging people to not buy GW and go 3rd party / pointing out the contemptable idiocy of GW's releases (the aforementioned year+ wait time for the second most basic kit in the entire HH range).

And with that said, I suppose I do have to agree that Dakka is more "negative" than many other 40k spaces. But frankly I also think that's because there's actual discussions to be had here, because people are passionate and are allowed to voice their opinions even if they're negative (so long as they maintain some very basic respect). Which is very much in counter-point to every other forum-esque entity I see for 40k / 30k, which tend to be nothing but people posting pictures of their models. So while Dakka skews negative, it's because Dakka allows its patrons to actually discuss rather than forcing them to shill.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Like it or not, the people who post the most are going to get seen the most and there are huge chunks of Heresy threads filled with people complaining and whinging. I come to the forum for background and Heresy discussion and not so long ago both of those parts of the forum were toxic as hell and almost made me dump the site.

So from my point of view, Dakka is a pretty negative place.

While you are of course entitled to your point of view, that is a door that swings both ways. I recognize you pretty well Gert. Mostly because I find you an extremely antagonistic poster who I feel gets incredibly aggro on anyone that disagrees with your stances.

Yes, I realize that's a bit Oroborous of me to say, given my largest contributions to the site for a couple of years has been distaste for GW's in ability to competently design 40k / encouraging people to not buy GW and go 3rd party / pointing out the contemptable idiocy of GW's releases (the aforementioned year+ wait time for the second most basic kit in the entire HH range).

And with that said, I suppose I do have to agree that Dakka is more "negative" than many other 40k spaces. But frankly I also think that's because there's actual discussions to be had here, because people are passionate and are allowed to voice their opinions even if they're negative (so long as they maintain some very basic respect). Which is very much in counter-point to every other forum-esque entity I see for 40k / 30k, which tend to be nothing but people posting pictures of their models. So while Dakka skews negative, it's because Dakka allows its patrons to actually discuss rather than forcing them to shill.

There's a difference between constructive discussion and both reinforced positive or negative conversation, I appreciate the candour in acknowledging you feel your own content is almost entirely critical negatively toned comments, but you consider the other option else to be "shilling" which is in itself, a loaded term designed to infer a negative image.

A healthy conversation can have "I don't like X", it can also have "we're here to talk about Y so please stop bringing X into it" when relevant. Space marine kits and their level of monobuild is always a fine line I see walked on B&C which has a rep for being positively skewed by moderation as an example, where "they're a bit mono pose to me, I'm not a fan of this trend" is ok, but "GW have been making boring monopose sculpts since they made that terrible decision to primaris everything and I'm angry they got rid of options XYZ" isn't helpful and would likely get blatted.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Like it or not, the people who post the most are going to get seen the most and there are huge chunks of Heresy threads filled with people complaining and whinging. I come to the forum for background and Heresy discussion and not so long ago both of those parts of the forum were toxic as hell and almost made me dump the site.

So from my point of view, Dakka is a pretty negative place.

While you are of course entitled to your point of view, that is a door that swings both ways. I recognize you pretty well Gert. Mostly because I find you an extremely antagonistic poster who I feel gets incredibly aggro on anyone that disagrees with your stances.

Yes, I realize that's a bit Oroborous of me to say, given my largest contributions to the site for a couple of years has been distaste for GW's in ability to competently design 40k / encouraging people to not buy GW and go 3rd party / pointing out the contemptable idiocy of GW's releases (the aforementioned year+ wait time for the second most basic kit in the entire HH range).

And with that said, I suppose I do have to agree that Dakka is more "negative" than many other 40k spaces. But frankly I also think that's because there's actual discussions to be had here, because people are passionate and are allowed to voice their opinions even if they're negative (so long as they maintain some very basic respect). Which is very much in counter-point to every other forum-esque entity I see for 40k / 30k, which tend to be nothing but people posting pictures of their models. So while Dakka skews negative, it's because Dakka allows its patrons to actually discuss rather than forcing them to shill.

Did you turn oroboros into an adjective on purpose, or was that a typo? Either way, it's the most (intentionally or unintentionally) brilliant thing I've seen all day, cheers

And on that note, you 100% nailed it with your post; it weirds me out a bit how little some people actually want to talk about this thing they supposedly like.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

And on that note, you 100% nailed it with your post; it weirds me out a bit how little some people actually want to talk about this thing they supposedly like.

You've also hit the nail on the head. Someone openly admitting they're a net negative input is someone you consider to like things.

my largest contributions to the site for a couple of years has been distaste for GW's in ability to competently design 40k / encouraging people to not buy GW and go 3rd party / pointing out the contemptable idiocy of GW's releases

That doesn't sound like someone that likes something, that sound like someone who is a negative state of disapproval towards something. I'm also willing to place a fair bet it comes from a place of frustration and broken expectations.

Dudeface wrote:
That doesn't sound like someone that likes something, that sound like someone who is a negative state of disapproval towards something. I'm also willing to place a fair bet it comes from a place of frustration and broken expectations.

I thought it showed a refreshing level of self-awareness. I typically stay away from "current edition" threads because I'm uninterested and don't want to be That Guy saying it all sucks. I prefer threads celebrating old editions and sharing my favorite features of those older designs in the hopes of recruiting more players for the game I prefer.

I have also noticed that many of the people decrying the negativity of others are ones I purposefully avoid because they are so relentlessly negative themselves. I like an old-time flame war as much as the next Gen Xer, but at a certain point, one recognizes the futility of it all.

I'm much more locked into threads about 2nd ed. 40k and now Bolt Action. That's what brought me back and what I really enjoy.

Dakka is a casualty of the internet becoming smaller and more condensed. Why be forced to hang out with people you hate or disagree with when you could be in the echo chamber of your choice via places like Discord and Reddit? All those posters who complained endlessly about toxic negativity or positivity on here? The /pol/ types who want to complain about minorities in their games? The WAAC players and the fluffbunnies? Most of them have almost certainly migrated to communities that are more in tune with how they feel about the game. Also, in general places like Reddit which has a much larger population in general also tends to have faster traffic. When I had an interest in AoS around the 2.0 era I would often try to take a peak in the AoS board here and it's been dead for years. Pretty much every board that isn't the off-topic board or the 40K boards has had slow traffic for a loooong time, the rot is only just now starting to seep into the 40K area as well.

Dakka is unfortunately just a relic of a bygone era. Community boards are out of fashion and they're all dying slow deaths.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Dakka is unfortunately just a relic of a bygone era. Community boards are out of fashion and they're all dying slow deaths.

And yet here you are, someone I've not encountered in all the time I've been here, helpfully telling me I'm wasting my time because everyone is so negative right after I talk about all my positive experiences.

Thanks for that.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Thanks for that.

It basically proves the point I made a few pages ago.

The most negative people in this thread are those complaining about relentless negativity.