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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
Going to agree with Crablezworth here that looks great and is definitely on topic!

It also takes someone else's art, uncredited, and basically pretends to be "original".

There's a reason why a bunch of these companies are in trouble after their "training set" has been found to just be scraping & copying for the output.

I'm constantly inundated with tik-toks that don't appear to credit the musical artist that is being danced to. A shame really, I'm sure said unknown artist would want to be associated with random teenager dancing in costco

None of those tiktokers are claiming the music used is their own creative work.

No, just profiting financially from dancing to said music artist's work largely without credit or license.


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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I'm on board with Crablezworth here too. I have used AI generated images as fluff enhancement for my own campaigns like the 40k Crusade I did a few years ago. I think using AI in this context is fine.

Mordrax Crusade Campaign

That map looks awesome.

Suddenly... 2 years later!

So this has come up again.

I can say with a fair bit of confidence that the Dakka galleries have not been flooded with AI images (if I've been fooled let me know). But I'd like to hear opinions.

I'd like to reiterate the bulk of what was said at the time which is that I'd prefer no AI imagery as it's a stain on cultural thought and skills. It doesn't provide anything useful and given GW has come out and said they've banned it's use internally we should echo that.

Instagram is awash with AI crap so it would be good to not have the slop seeping in here.

I have not noticed a lot of AI generated images in the galleries either. My opinion on the forum’s policy has not changed; I still favor a blanket ban.

I mean there are good bits and bad bits with AI. I use it now to test color schemes on my models.

I can take a picture of a model I built and say: "this time give me make the right gauntlet black..."

I would've wasted 9 or so Space Marines working on the designs the old fashioned way.

As long as you are up front and say AI did this and I did not. I don't see a problem with it.

I am also in favour of a blanket ban of AI generated/altered images. AI art is an insult to any and all in the artistic sphere.

 Snrub wrote:
I am also in favour of a blanket ban of AI generated/altered images. AI art is an insult to any and all in the artistic sphere.

Put me in the "ban generative AI" camp...

Dakka being a niche forum has likely escaped what's hit a lot of mainstream places like Instagram because, basically its not social media so there's no hotbed of users ready to flood the site.

That said I'd also support a blanket ban on the gallery hosting AI images. Honestly Dakka Gallery has always stood for being primarily photos of hobby stuff - real world real proper hobby stuff and I think its all the stronger for standing on that foundation.
The Gallery isn't flooded, but I think such a policy just helps drive home that this isn't a place for AI to infect and that instead its a place where real world hobby stuff is able to be "safe"

People can always use off-site image hosts to embed AI images into threads if they want to show them. I'd argue that a blanket "must declare its AI" policy would be good to have and it would be best to monitor so that it doesn't smother the site. Though again the fact that this isn't insta/redit etc likely is protection itself.

 KidCthulhu wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
I am also in favour of a blanket ban of AI generated/altered images. AI art is an insult to any and all in the artistic sphere.

Put me in the "ban generative AI" camp...

Same

Ban. It.

AI has its place. That place is not impersonating or replacing human creativity.

I get not everyone (hi, I include myself in this) has the skills and know-how to get what’s in their head on the page/canvas/wall/etc. But I’m afraid, again including myself in this? Your choice is to accept that, or learn.

I’m also dead against AI tripe showing up as model rumours. How one polices that though, I haven’t the foggiest.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ban. It.

AI has its place. That place is not impersonating or replacing human creativity.

I get not everyone (hi, I include myself in this) has the skills and know-how to get what’s in their head on the page/canvas/wall/etc. But I’m afraid, again including myself in this? Your choice is to accept that, or learn.

I’m also dead against AI tripe showing up as model rumours. How one polices that though, I haven’t the foggiest.

Wow. This is a pretty fething offensive thing to say.

I'll make sure to tell one of my friends who has severe nerve damage in his hands to give up on making his comic book a reality by no longer using AI and learn to draw by hand?

That'll go over great.

AI assistance art has a place. A lot of people abuse it, and a lot of people use it to troll others, but it still helps people realize the dreams they have, when life has put roadblocks up.

I'm sorry you don't like AI art. But think about those it actually helps.

I too have nerve damage. And tendon damage. In my dominant hand. Result of an inadvisable teenage arm/window interface and a “down to the bone, missing my artery by 2mm” laceration.

Over 30 years ago. Still have little feeling in the thumb, index and middle finger. Still have limited mobility of said thumb.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ban. It.

AI has its place. That place is not impersonating or replacing human creativity.

I get not everyone (hi, I include myself in this) has the skills and know-how to get what’s in their head on the page/canvas/wall/etc. But I’m afraid, again including myself in this? Your choice is to accept that, or learn.

I’m also dead against AI tripe showing up as model rumours. How one polices that though, I haven’t the foggiest.

Wow. This is a pretty fething offensive thing to say.

I'll make sure to tell one of my friends who has severe nerve damage in his hands to give up on making his comic book a reality by no longer using AI and learn to draw by hand?

That'll go over great.

AI assistance art has a place. A lot of people abuse it, and a lot of people use it to troll others, but it still helps people realize the dreams they have, when life has put roadblocks up.

I'm sorry you don't like AI art. But think about those it actually helps.

Many people have overcome disabilities without resorting to a technology that can only function by plagiarism.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ban. It.

AI has its place. That place is not impersonating or replacing human creativity.

I get not everyone (hi, I include myself in this) has the skills and know-how to get what’s in their head on the page/canvas/wall/etc. But I’m afraid, again including myself in this? Your choice is to accept that, or learn.

I’m also dead against AI tripe showing up as model rumours. How one polices that though, I haven’t the foggiest.

Wow. This is a pretty fething offensive thing to say.

I'll make sure to tell one of my friends who has severe nerve damage in his hands to give up on making his comic book a reality by no longer using AI and learn to draw by hand?

That'll go over great.

AI assistance art has a place. A lot of people abuse it, and a lot of people use it to troll others, but it still helps people realize the dreams they have, when life has put roadblocks up.

I'm sorry you don't like AI art. But think about those it actually helps.

Many people have overcome disabilities without resorting to a technology that can only function by plagiarism.

What other technology is freely available to people on disability to work on their ideas?

I can't think of any.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

What other technology is freely available to people on disability to work on their ideas?

I can't think of any.

For what it's worth, we had a family friend who was quadriplegic, who spent 40 years painting with a paintbrush held in his mouth. He was part of a large association of artists with various disabilities, who all paint with either their mouth or their feet, and in many cases turn out superb work. There are artists out there doing similar with digital art, as there are a whole slew of devices available for people with limited or no use of their arms to use a computer.

AI is not the only option for people with disabilities to make their art a reality. It's arguably not at all a way for people with disabilities to make their art a reality, since it's not really making their art.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

What other technology is freely available to people on disability to work on their ideas?

I can't think of any.

For what it's worth, we had a family friend who was quadriplegic, who spent 40 years painting with a paintbrush held in his mouth. He was part of a large association of artists with various disabilities, who all paint with either their mouth or their feet, and in many cases turn out superb work. There are artists out there doing similar with digital art, as there are a whole slew of devices available for people with limited or no use of their arms to use a computer.

AI is not the only option for people with disabilities to make their art a reality. It's arguably not at all a way for people with disabilities to make their art a reality, since it's not really making their art.

It makes him happy, and I've been at such a loss for how to help.

And in the end, that's all that matters. He'll never publish his stuff, but it makes his day a bit brighter and he's actually excited to show me what he's done. I can't remember that before.

So I'm sure that it's all a terrible thing, and steals everyone's ideas. But for this. It works, and I'm not going to hate something that brings absolute joy to someone's life.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
that brings absolute joy to someone's life.

By inflicting misery on others- directly, the artists whose livelihoods are threatened by the plagiarism machine, and indirectly the collective public, as climate change initiatives are scuttled to enable AI. So I have absolutely no problem hating it.

I'm sorry for your friend's injury, but if making art himself is out of the question, he can always commission its creation, rather than resort to stealing it and burning down a rainforest in the process. AI slop sucks.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:


Wow. This is a pretty fething offensive thing to say.

I'll make sure to tell one of my friends who has severe nerve damage in his hands to give up on making his comic book a reality by no longer using AI and learn to draw by hand?

That'll go over great.

AI assistance art has a place. A lot of people abuse it, and a lot of people use it to troll others, but it still helps people realize the dreams they have, when life has put roadblocks up.

I'm sorry you don't like AI art. But think about those it actually helps.

Now, I don't know your friend, and I am sorry for his condition, but I fail to see how someone could get a computer to generate sloppy, badly shaded images for them and be proud of it as if it's their own hard work. You aren't 'realizing your dream' you're getting a machine to make a poor approximation of your 'dream'. The human touch must be there to make truly great art. There's nothing inherently 'offensive' about that statement. It's how skills work.
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 Lathe Biosas wrote:


It makes him happy, and I've been at such a loss for how to help.

And in the end, that's all that matters. He'll never publish his stuff, but it makes his day a bit brighter and he's actually excited to show me what he's done. I can't remember that before.

So I'm sure that it's all a terrible thing, and steals everyone's ideas. But for this. It works, and I'm not going to hate something that brings absolute joy to someone's life.

That sorta understandable I guess, sorry for the potentially inflammatory message.

Yep AI right now is super cheap because mega firms are paying the bills because the more people use it the more it trains it. At some point the reverse will likely happen and the costs will go up since it burns insane amounts of power to generate things.

The actual raw resource cost is likely greater than paying a human artist to create something even if the human is slower (though honestly sometimes it seems human way is faster as you don't have to re-generate it a billion times over).



And yes we can ALL think of ways AI can help. Eg animation could make great use of it by having living artists create key moment artwork and using AI to fill in the animation cells between instead of, almost, slave labour style sweatshops.
However AI isn't something we can currently restrict to specific situations (nor does it feel like there's a big enough push to do so). So alongside the good you've got the bad and the bad is that it destroys income for a huge number of people.

Heck I started getting Displates this last few months and their website is smothered in AI generated and submitted material. To the point its broken approvals for new art being added and hidden regular artists because now their work is buried under a mountain of AI.
So even if you want to support a real artist you have to do some work to actually find their art; and if they aren't a big named star in the art world they are even more buried.


AI can bring great things, I'm sure there are areas of science and development that will make huge leaps and strides with the technology. It's not 100% evil. It's just a pandora's box of problems we've never had to deal with because it has potential to replace a LOT of people's work and a lot of what honestly many people considered a passion for them in creative work. In a way its a technology that might have to be heavily regulated to work alongside society without devaluing human input.

I have 2 opinions on generative-AI:

1 - As a professional artist in the industry with an unpopular opinion; I do not mind generative AI at all, and find it funny how it makes years honed skills obsolete and generally enjoy when generative-ai renders a better piece than the original artist.
Ultimately I am not worried, because pros will always be step above any tech.

And everyone bellow pros will just use the tools to compensate for lack of skill and speed. Is it fair? NO it is not fair, but life under the sun is not fair.
Ecclesiastes 9:11

2 - As a human being, I dislike how the ai moved the dopamine processing into overdrive. Because our brains adapt and adjust in information processing to prolonged (solitary confinement or overstimulation) making it afterwards difficult to function in real life, that is running at normal speed. It won't end well for humanity. I think our future is; large herds of dopamine junkies with few herders.

For us, I support 100% to ban on generative-ai for Dakkadakka. We don't need it, this is not the place for it. I want to see what people make build and paint with their hands.
Also, generative ai has a backfire effect, for example: when you can generate 100 images of a space-cat-with-jet-pack, and after you seen 10, you seen them all, and the whole thing becomes instantly boring. The 11th or 45th image of the space-cat-with-jet-pack is empty, or at least that is how It is to me. And I do not want that to happen in the hobby, so no AI please, it might for some destroy the little interest they have.

The only generative-AI that I would be cool with are the memes, and trolls for lolz. But we do not have that culture here. By here I mean the two sections that I live on (Painting & Modeling and Dakka P&M Blogs)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Every image posted to our gallery (though not the ones linked) is reviewed by eye, usually by me.

So I'll keep an eye open to see if we start getting a flood.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I mean there are good bits and bad bits with AI. I use it now to test color schemes on my models.

I can take a picture of a model I built and say: "this time give me make the right gauntlet black..."

I would've wasted 9 or so Space Marines working on the designs the old fashioned way.

Or you could've taken the non-lazy approach - open picture in GIMP/Photoshop, add a mask layer (or more than one) at, say 50% transparency, and colour sections of the armour in that way.

No models ruined, skill potentially learned, no AI garbage required.

BTW guys, who does not have access to Photoshop, you can use FREE browser photoshop for quick projects.

It is called Photopea
https://www.photopea.com/

 Dysartes wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I mean there are good bits and bad bits with AI. I use it now to test color schemes on my models.

I can take a picture of a model I built and say: "this time give me make the right gauntlet black..."

I would've wasted 9 or so Space Marines working on the designs the old fashioned way.

Or you could've taken the non-lazy approach - open picture in GIMP/Photoshop, add a mask layer (or more than one) at, say 50% transparency, and colour sections of the armour in that way.

No models ruined, skill potentially learned, no AI garbage required.

Cool. That's a free program that works on my phone? Or perhaps my monitored work computer?

If not, then it's unhelpful.

I'm not lazy. Just fething poor.

@Lathe Biosas
I moved away from photoshop subscription long time ago into Clipstudio.

You buy one time, a perpetual license and own it forever like the good old days.
https://www.clipstudio.net/en/purchase/

For Photoshop editing, a free tool called PhotoPEA is available. It is basic Photoshop, but it runs off a browser, so all you got to do is open the site and use it directly in the browser.
https://www.photopea.com/

Hope this helps.

I would also vote for a blanket ban on GenAI

 Mothsniper wrote:
@Lathe Biosas
I moved away from photoshop subscription long time ago into Clipstudio.

You buy one time, a perpetual license and own it forever like the good old days.
https://www.clipstudio.net/en/purchase/

For Photoshop editing, a free tool called PhotoPEA is available. It is basic Photoshop, but it runs off a browser, so all you got to do is open the site and use it directly in the browser.
https://www.photopea.com/

Hope this helps.

It does. Thank you.

I haven't posted in the gallery in years (perhaps decades?) and I don't generally use it, but the policy as outlined in the OP is perfectly adequate. People who want/like/accept AI images have a way to post it,people who don't have a way to identify it.

Given the.... robust responses in this thread I wonder if it's going to be a moot point anyway, who's going to be posting tagged AI images when a vocal subset of the forum are going to have a visceral negative reaction to it? Seems self-defeating to post something that you know will just bring you grief.

Disallowing AI is not going to change anything. Nobody's generating images just to post on Dakka, so the AI is still being used. All that changes is people here not seeing it.

Tag 'em, avoid them if you don't like them, seek them out if you do. Nobody's gaining/losing work because a wargaming forum changes their gallery policy.

Charax wrote:
I haven't posted in the gallery in years (perhaps decades?) and I don't generally use it, but the policy as outlined in the OP is perfectly adequate. People who want/like/accept AI images have a way to post it,people who don't have a way to identify it.

Given the.... robust responses in this thread I wonder if it's going to be a moot point anyway, who's going to be posting tagged AI images when a vocal subset of the forum are going to have a visceral negative reaction to it? Seems self-defeating to post something that you know will just bring you grief.

Disallowing AI is not going to change anything. Nobody's generating images just to post on Dakka, so the AI is still being used. All that changes is people here not seeing it.

Tag 'em, avoid them if you don't like them, seek them out if you do. Nobody's gaining/losing work because a wargaming forum changes their gallery policy.

No offence, but there is a lot of wrong with the "Disallowing AI is not going to change anything" logic, Because disallowing images of explicit gore also is not going to change anything either, but allowing it will make things much much worse.
It is much simpler than that. I do not want to spend extra effort figuring out if an image is ai or not, that is it, simple as that. And the reason simple: is if it is AI i ignore it, but if it is a person then I am impressed and will respond.
The reason is not to "gaining/losing work because a wargaming forum changes their gallery policy"

Like for example, do you think this is ai generated or not? You can read the commends and see the confusion.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tb9FabY1n84

Because if this is shared on the platform where generative-AI is banned, then I can be impressed, if this is posted on the platform where generative-AI is allowed, then I can ignore it.
Do you see how an AI content can be a net negative to a hobby forum? Is it not obvious? I hope I do not have to explain the obvious.

If you're trying to draw an equivalence between posting correctly-tagged AI with posting gore then this is not a serious conversation any more.

There's also a deep irony on the same side of the discussion deploying both the "but just spend hours/days/weeks learning to draw rather than use AI" and "but you want me to look at tags? With my fragile human eyes? That's too much effort!" arguments.

I don't especially care if a cool image I see is AI or not, if I'm inspired by it then I'll be inspired regardless, it's as irrelevant to me as the name of the artist's grandmother, the output is what's relevant to me, not how it came to be. But for those that do care an easily visible tag is a decent compromise and one I support