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Now that were well into 10th edition, I wanted to ask everyone what they think a good theme / opponent for the space marines would be for 11th. Since a lot of the enemy factions have had their time in the sun lately, I think there's only really three options that make sense for the 11th edition antagonist. Aeldari, Orks, or Tau.

I don't think it's Aeldari's time yet, between this edition and last, they've had a lot of old kits re-done, so I think their time to shine will be later. Same thing lore wise (so far as I'm aware) there's hasn't been too much on the Aeldari or Drukhari front lately. Orks are a solid choice, we haven't seen them in a starter set since 5th edition and they're always a good antagonist. That being said, while the Boys kit could certainly use some variation, a lot of their core units are fairly recent sculpts, so I'm not sold on the idea on them being the next antagonist either. I also think that Orks would be a good follow up in 12th for the antagonist I think will be in 11th...

That leaves Tau for two reasons. One, in terms of (non-Kroot) releases, they've been very light the last few editions, and two, the 5th sphere of expansion is starting to make more and more waves in the lore, bringing Tau into the broader political hellscape of the wider galaxy. The Tau have had expansionist stories before, but one as the center for a whole edition would be really cool IMHO.

As for what this would mean box wise, I think they'll finally lean more into the coalition aspect of the Tau, brining us some new suits as well as Kroot, Vespid, and/or possibly other allied. There's a lot of opportunity here to give Tau and Kroot fans things they've been wanting for a long time. So I think the box would be something like this:

- Generic Commander in XV22 Battlesuit (The same kind Shadowsun has).
- XV 22 suits, OR XV9 Hazzard suits re-done in plastic. Either one to be lead by above commander.
- New Etheral and/or Cadre Fireblade Sculpts.
- New Strike Team and / or Breacher sculpts.
- R'Varna or Y'vahra in plastic as the centerpiece model.
- Knarloc Riders and Great Knarlocs in plastic.
- Kroot Character riding Knarloc to lead cavalry units.
- New Vespid unit of some kind with a Vespid Character to lead it. Possibly a large chaff expendable "drone" like unit.
- One additional auxiliary unit with psychic abilities. Either Kroot or one of the Tau's other allied psyker races.

What do you all think. Is this a reasonable idea for half a starter set? Do you think it would sell well? Or do you think another faction is more likely to be center stage next edition?

I think two years away is far too long for me to think about it.

Honestly I'd rather see Eldar get a big update during 10th rather than have to wait until the end for the last of their kit reworks, which would be the case otherwise. So I'd agree Tau would be a good choice.

Another option would be the Thousand Sons for Chaos, since they are the last of the themed 40K Chaos god forces

I'll be curious to see how far the many-flavours-of-Eldar go before the end of the edition between 40k and KT releases- we've had Scorpions and Mandrakes via KT, and if the flying set is real, Swooping Hawks are on deck.

I'd like to see Drukhari get at least Grotesques, Beast Master + Beasts, and Court of the Archon.

The point being that if you finish the update on the Aeldari and Drukhari in 10th, you create an environment primed to push the Ynarri storyline forward, because frankly, if EC come back at the end of 10th, the Eldar are going to go apeshit.

So I'm thinking mixed Eldar/ Ynarri as one of the box factions. Now of course, I know that the second faction has to be marines... But part of me wants them to double-tap EC. Like their first wave closes 10th and their second wave opens 11th.

Ynarri vs. EC would kick ass. And yes, I know it will never happen.

my guess is that 1th edition will be the edition of the rhino, much in the same way that 10th has been the edition of the terminator. it's clearly a kit that GW is bullish of getting rid of, and it has a niche in the army otherwise unfilled (10/12 TC vs primaris vehicles being 5/6/7), and is a thing players love. that, and so many factions use the rhino as a base that you'd really need a concerted effort to replace all of them at once

but of course, marines need an infantry choice, too. that could be anything. i can't really distinguish between different types of marines, anyway, but when primaris already have a plasma unit, a flamer unit, and a melta unit, it could be fun to throw in a grav weapon unit (that doesn't feel starter box-worthy, but i would have said the same thing about flamer marines). maybe pair the rhino with a redone tactical squad for nostalgia points (you might say "but intercessors were made to replace tactical squads", and to that i say, people will pay for nostalgia and a thing they recognize)

oh, and the other army is going to be orks. new boyz kit (with proper options this time. i believe gw can listen to feedback), new lootas/skorchas, and so on. plenty of old kits that need modernization that would fit well in a starter box, and a lot of chances for new kits as well

I’d like it if the box opponents were space marines and orks.
Could expand 2/3 of my armies and my niece and nephew could expand their armies in one go.

Other than that, drukhari would a nice throw back.

 PenitentJake wrote:
I'll be curious to see how far the many-flavours-of-Eldar go before the end of the edition between 40k and KT releases- we've had Scorpions and Mandrakes via KT, and if the flying set is real, Swooping Hawks are on deck.

I'd like to see Drukhari get at least Grotesques, Beast Master + Beasts, and Court of the Archon.

The point being that if you finish the update on the Aeldari and Drukhari in 10th, you create an environment primed to push the Ynarri storyline forward, because frankly, if EC come back at the end of 10th, the Eldar are going to go apeshit.

So I'm thinking mixed Eldar/ Ynarri as one of the box factions. Now of course, I know that the second faction has to be marines... But part of me wants them to double-tap EC. Like their first wave closes 10th and their second wave opens 11th.

Ynarri vs. EC would kick ass. And yes, I know it will never happen.

Yeah, I was thinking that whenever the do Aeldari, it's going to be Ynarri centric. Actually give them some specific units and toss in 1-2 Craftworld and Drukhari units for support.


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 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
my guess is that 1th edition will be the edition of the rhino, much in the same way that 10th has been the edition of the terminator. it's clearly a kit that GW is bullish of getting rid of, and it has a niche in the army otherwise unfilled (10/12 TC vs primaris vehicles being 5/6/7), and is a thing players love. that, and so many factions use the rhino as a base that you'd really need a concerted effort to replace all of them at once

but of course, marines need an infantry choice, too. that could be anything. i can't really distinguish between different types of marines, anyway, but when primaris already have a plasma unit, a flamer unit, and a melta unit, it could be fun to throw in a grav weapon unit (that doesn't feel starter box-worthy, but i would have said the same thing about flamer marines). maybe pair the rhino with a redone tactical squad for nostalgia points (you might say "but intercessors were made to replace tactical squads", and to that i say, people will pay for nostalgia and a thing they recognize)

oh, and the other army is going to be orks. new boyz kit (with proper options this time. i believe gw can listen to feedback), new lootas/skorchas, and so on. plenty of old kits that need modernization that would fit well in a starter box, and a lot of chances for new kits as well

Yeah, only a handful of kits to get redone for SM. I'd personally like to see the older units like the Rhino get a glow up, but I think they're kinds sticking with that for the HH ones and just expect people to get those kits if they want newer sculpts.

I can see Vanguard vets getting re-done next edition, probably with a Jump Chaplain to lead them.
Maybe a Gravis Lieutenant since we're still missing that.
Honestly, I'd really like to see scout bikers come back with a new sculpt, but just one more bike unit of any kind would be a good addition for outrider style lists.
A new drop pod maybe? That's a hell of a stretch though.
Some kind of new melee unit. Maybe with Twin-Linked close combat weapons of some kind since they took most of those away... though they could just give that back to Vanguard vets...

Beyond that, I can't really think of anything SM's are missing. I think you've got a good idea with the Grav themed units, it's the only other thing I can think of beyond that.

As for Orks, the problem there is that all the starter sets kits are monopose. With all the backlash about Monopose Orks, I'm not sure they're ready to do that again. Yeah, two monopose kits are better than one, but not by a lot. So then, do they just do orks without boyz? I have a hard time picturing that. I don't think a Gretchin themed army would go over too well (though I would like it) even if they brought back the Grot Tanks and stuff to plastic.


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johnpjones1775 wrote:

Could expand 2/3 of my armies and my niece and nephew could expand their armies in one go.

It would be the trifecta for me. My three kids play Tyranids, Space Marines, and Orks.

 Tawnis wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
my guess is that 1th edition will be the edition of the rhino, much in the same way that 10th has been the edition of the terminator. it's clearly a kit that GW is bullish of getting rid of, and it has a niche in the army otherwise unfilled (10/12 TC vs primaris vehicles being 5/6/7), and is a thing players love. that, and so many factions use the rhino as a base that you'd really need a concerted effort to replace all of them at once

but of course, marines need an infantry choice, too. that could be anything. i can't really distinguish between different types of marines, anyway, but when primaris already have a plasma unit, a flamer unit, and a melta unit, it could be fun to throw in a grav weapon unit (that doesn't feel starter box-worthy, but i would have said the same thing about flamer marines). maybe pair the rhino with a redone tactical squad for nostalgia points (you might say "but intercessors were made to replace tactical squads", and to that i say, people will pay for nostalgia and a thing they recognize)

oh, and the other army is going to be orks. new boyz kit (with proper options this time. i believe gw can listen to feedback), new lootas/skorchas, and so on. plenty of old kits that need modernization that would fit well in a starter box, and a lot of chances for new kits as well

Yeah, only a handful of kits to get redone for SM. I'd personally like to see the older units like the Rhino get a glow up, but I think they're kinds sticking with that for the HH ones and just expect people to get those kits if they want newer sculpts.

I can see Vanguard vets getting re-done next edition, probably with a Jump Chaplain to lead them.
Maybe a Gravis Lieutenant since we're still missing that.
Honestly, I'd really like to see scout bikers come back with a new sculpt, but just one more bike unit of any kind would be a good addition for outrider style lists.
A new drop pod maybe? That's a hell of a stretch though.
Some kind of new melee unit. Maybe with Twin-Linked close combat weapons of some kind since they took most of those away... though they could just give that back to Vanguard vets...

Beyond that, I can't really think of anything SM's are missing. I think you've got a good idea with the Grav themed units, it's the only other thing I can think of beyond that.

As for Orks, the problem there is that all the starter sets kits are monopose. With all the backlash about Monopose Orks, I'm not sure they're ready to do that again. Yeah, two monopose kits are better than one, but not by a lot. So then, do they just do orks without boyz? I have a hard time picturing that. I don't think a Gretchin themed army would go over too well (though I would like it) even if they brought back the Grot Tanks and stuff to plastic.

i was thinking the boyz would have a monopose kit for the starter box, but then a kit with options for the full kit, like terminators this edition

my main thought for the rhino is that since so many factions use it, they would have a chance to make them more distinct per faction (and, in the way they've been wanting to lately, split the product lines by making them harder to swap between each other

Fleshing out the other half of 10th. Now that we have Detachments to provide the army theme instead of FOC, roll out the LEADERs that go with it. Alternate Armor Libby/Lieutenant/Chaplain/Captains. Non-monster Nid Leaders for the endless swarm style. And so on.

Dark Mechanicum. Introducing the faction for real, and starting yet another edition with a bang. On the Marines side of things this could lean into Techmarines, Servitors and variations on those ideas.

While this is all speculation around here: 11th edition is way into production already, and at least the mini side of things is all set in stone for some time anyway. So there are folks out there who could confirm or deny any of this... but won't, because NDAs and "I want to keep my job" exist.

I'd like to see Drukhari get a new lease of life as a big bad exactly for the reasons OP doubts them. They haven't been up to much, haven't had much in the way of releases and as such have stagnated and shrunk as a faction.

 Darnok wrote:
Dark Mechanicum. Introducing the faction for real, and starting yet another edition with a bang. On the Marines side of things this could lean into Techmarines, Servitors and variations on those ideas.

While this is all speculation around here: 11th edition is way into production already, and at least the mini side of things is all set in stone for some time anyway. So there are folks out there who could confirm or deny any of this... but won't, because NDAs and "I want to keep my job" exist.

That's a fair point, I didn't really think of new factions. We did get Death Guard in 8th when they were essentially a new faction so there is precedence for it. Especially of there is an easy way to Chaos Soup lists for the faction so everyone doesn't have to commit super hard up front to a full 2k if they want to at least try games with it. Vashtor has been pretty big in the lore too, so it could be the edition of his ascension.

I could see it working.

The problem is a new edition always means new marines, and how many more variants of marines do we need? This is a big issue with the 3 year cycle, which I hate with a passion.
So I’d rather just not see an 11th edition for another 5 years.

The best enemy for real space marines should be the primaris have them all declared traitor excommunicatus split codex SM down the middle and unlegend some stuff give people back there old school models. It would make it a lot easier to balance the faction if it was broke in two.

I also agree with the above

 bullyboy wrote:
The problem is a new edition always means new marines, and how many more variants of marines do we need? This is a big issue with the 3 year cycle, which I hate with a passion.
So I’d rather just not see an 11th edition for another 5 years.

Look what they just did to Stormcast - they'll simply retire/replace some Primaris already, while also killing off the last classic marines. Suppressors with an actual kit, Reivers that never really worked getting proper CC-weapons(they'll be 9 years old when 11th hits, ancient for a Marines kit ). Desolators immediately killed because you know why.

I feel like we want to use a big release like that as a chance to give some love to a smaller, newer faction, right? So possibly a second EC wave if they get a codex in the next year or so. Or possibly LoV?

Tau (kroot), orks, 'crons, 'nids, and eldar have all received some decent attention since the start of 9th. I guess they could roll out some drukhari updates or new units, but I'm not pushing for that, personally.

Maybe some playtesting first so we don't end up with the current 10th dumpster fire.

Is 10th a dumpster fire? I thought the consensus was that 10th plays reasonably well; it's just kind of bland and repetitive.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The problem is a new edition always means new marines, and how many more variants of marines do we need? This is a big issue with the 3 year cycle, which I hate with a passion.
So I’d rather just not see an 11th edition for another 5 years.

Look what they just did to Stormcast - they'll simply retire/replace some Primaris already, while also killing off the last classic marines. Suppressors with an actual kit, Reivers that never really worked getting proper CC-weapons(they'll be 9 years old when 11th hits, ancient for a Marines kit ). Desolators immediately killed because you know why.

A good chunk of stormcast players are not happy with models that have a 3 year lifespan; esp when GW retired several pretty awesome looking hero models.

If anything its sapped interest in SC from existing fans. I think they will get away with it because of the "1 year until legends" thing and because Skaven will carry this new boxed set easily.
Marines might have half a chance, but retiring models after only a few years is not something wargamers like.

I think GW are going to have to think hard for the next aoS edition - they can't just keep including stormcast and retiring stormcast models.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
I feel like we want to use a big release like that as a chance to give some love to a smaller, newer faction, right? So possibly a second EC wave if they get a codex in the next year or so. Or possibly LoV?

Tau (kroot), orks, 'crons, 'nids, and eldar have all received some decent attention since the start of 9th. I guess they could roll out some drukhari updates or new units, but I'm not pushing for that, personally.

Following that logic, World Eaters would be a good big bad as well. Their original release was sorely lacking. If EC actually get a decent release this edition, they would be the Chaos faction in need of the most help.

That being said, with the highly suspected folding in of the Deamons codex to the various Chaos Gods, they'll probably wait a whole edition to see how that settles in before going whole hog on a massive Chaos release. (Though I think we will still get some WE at some point soon, there are easily some very key units missing from their range.)


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 Byte wrote:
Maybe some playtesting first so we don't end up with the current 10th dumpster fire.

Personally, aside from the Aeldari being super OP at launch. I haven't really had any complaints about 10th so far. A few minor quibbles here and there, but I've found it (for the most part) the best edition in recent memory.

 Tawnis wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
I feel like we want to use a big release like that as a chance to give some love to a smaller, newer faction, right? So possibly a second EC wave if they get a codex in the next year or so. Or possibly LoV?

Tau (kroot), orks, 'crons, 'nids, and eldar have all received some decent attention since the start of 9th. I guess they could roll out some drukhari updates or new units, but I'm not pushing for that, personally.

Following that logic, World Eaters would be a good big bad as well. Their original release was sorely lacking. If EC actually get a decent release this edition, they would be the Chaos faction in need of the most help.

That being said, with the highly suspected folding in of the Deamons codex to the various Chaos Gods, they'll probably wait a whole edition to see how that settles in before going whole hog on a massive Chaos release. (Though I think we will still get some WE at some point soon, there are easily some very key units missing from their range.)

I could see WE too, yeah. Kind of hoping GW hurries up and folds daemons and marines into their respective gods' books soon. Daemons and marine complement eachother super well, and that would free them up to do multiple detachments with rules exploring different aspects of each chaos god instead of just choosing one Nurgle rule for DG and daemons and nothing else.

U02dah4 wrote:
The best enemy for real space marines should be the primaris have them all declared traitor excommunicatus split codex SM down the middle and unlegend some stuff give people back there old school models. It would make it a lot easier to balance the faction if it was broke in two.

better yet, why expand that idea. maybe make a whole game out of there being two space marine codexes. i have a feeling that sort of thing would be popular

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Is 10th a dumpster fire? I thought the consensus was that 10th plays reasonably well; it's just kind of bland and repetitive.

it's perfectly enjoyable and will never be the first game i want to play; it feels like the majority of people talking about how it's unplayable or what have you are from the section of the community which haven't played a game of the current edition for at least half a decade

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Is 10th a dumpster fire? I thought the consensus was that 10th plays reasonably well; it's just kind of bland and repetitive.

It just about plays well now, a year after release, after 3-4 dataslates and multiple FAQ's and erratas.

For an edition that tried to sell itself as being better balanced by removing rules and mechanics the first year of it has been the worse balance I've ever seen in the game. It's almost as if the amount of rules wasn't the issue with balance problems before, huh

Preferred theme for 11th? "Return to tables".

If the anime Junk faction are in the launch box, I'm almos certainly not picking i tup without a guaranteed offload of said Anime Junk.

I agree with whoever said "Dark Eldar" as the best fit for the 11th box, especially if doing so actually adds some units. Orks, LoV and WE as back-up options.

Black Templars and Dark Eldar in box set. LOL

 Dekskull wrote:
Black Templars and Dark Eldar in box set. LOL

I'm not convinced we'd ever get non-Ultramarines again. They'd want all the Marines minis to be usable by as many players as possible.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Is 10th a dumpster fire? I thought the consensus was that 10th plays reasonably well; it's just kind of bland and repetitive.

It is extremly not just army, but build dependand. White Scar players are not having much fun this edition. Ad Mecha costed costed double or triple of what an army should cost, now they are just double as exepnsive, but it sucks for those few who took the plunge and bought a proper Xth army after the codex got released. With GK you better like terminators and 4-6 NDKs in your army, and a NPE (for the opponent) game play. Regular marines had a tank build which was good and that is it. DE stuff keeps getting nerfed , and it is at best an EXTREMLY hard to play army, just because Eldar Inari exist. Custodes amd IG were designed to work in a specific way, then GW decided to remove that way, not really giving anything back. Those are the have nots. On the other hand those haves camp is dripping in synergies and overlaping rules, not being given a codex (SW and BA) yet. Studio favourism etc. And all of that comes with the same stuff GW always does, fixing some stuff takes them an edition. They react with a codex to meta problems from 6 to 12 months in the past. Ways of play people picked their army for (Ad Mecha robots,Imperial Knights, Bike armies/Terminator armies) get no support.
It is not that the game was better in the past, or that the same stuff didn't happen in 8th or 9th. But 10th feels like a 3 year reset pre edition with the REAL DEAL being suppose to be 11th, after which GW will reset the gam in 12th. Looking at old 9th ed books, especialy the good and fun to play ones, there were a lot more valid ways to play armies. Sure 8th/9th had their stinkers , my dudes were like that for most of that time. Now even if GW does release something fun, they nerf it a few weeks later. Orks were super fun for ork players. Multiple builds, multiple detachments. Then GW reacted to people having fun, by removing the fun. Instead of fixing the bad stuff, GW lowers the fun/good stuff to the level of bad stuff too often for it to just be something random.

For theme, I'd love to see Kittens and Unicorns?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
For theme, I'd love to see Kittens and Unicorns?

A friend of mine actually did that. Complete with unicorn horns on the fronts of her tanks for bonus damage when tank shocking.

The opposing side in the box has to be something that looks like bad guys. Which does exclude Eldar and Tau because both look too clean and non-evil. So we basically have the various Chaos factions to choose from and Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, and Dark Eldar. We just had Tyranids and Necrons, so I think either something Chaos (but not one of the ones that looks too much like regular marines. Death Guard was good for that but Iron Warriors for instance not so much).