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 BrookM wrote:
Bad Squiddo has also announced pulling out of EU sales by the end of the month. I fear Statuesque may not be far behind then in announcing the same. To say that I am gutted is an understatement.

Yeah, I've got a new release coming next week so want to announce properly alongside that. One last hurrah selling to the EU before quickly shutting it down.

It should be temporary though - there are 'affordable' options out there but things need to shake out a bit first, I need to read up properly on my obligations, make sure companies providing the GPSR 'responsible person' service are legit etc etc. Yeah, we should've all had months and months to sort this, but yeesh it's a lot. Hopefully I can get it all sorted to resume selling to the EU in the new year.

 Andrew Rae wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Bad Squiddo has also announced pulling out of EU sales by the end of the month. I fear Statuesque may not be far behind then in announcing the same. To say that I am gutted is an understatement.

Yeah, I've got a new release coming next week so want to announce properly alongside that. One last hurrah selling to the EU before quickly shutting it down.

It should be temporary though - there are 'affordable' options out there but things need to shake out a bit first, I need to read up properly on my obligations, make sure companies providing the GPSR 'responsible person' service are legit etc etc. Yeah, we should've all had months and months to sort this, but yeesh it's a lot. Hopefully I can get it all sorted to resume selling to the EU in the new year.

Crap, put in a quick order through your Etsy just now before the gates close, if the new release is more of the Habernagerie stuff, I'll be properly miffed alright. But oh well, I'll wait and order that when things go online again next year.

 BrookM wrote:
Crap, put in a quick order through your Etsy just now before the gates close, if the new release is more of the Habernagerie stuff, I'll be properly miffed alright. But oh well, I'll wait and order that when things go online again next year.

Thanks, I can cancel it and refund if you want to wait til next week? Drop me a message on Etsy

Interesting reply over on reddit about this in a post from Warp Miniatures

https://new.reddit.com/r/smallbusinessuk/comments/1gtmxsr/gspreu_sales_from_13th_december/

GPSR is an absolute clusterfeth.

There is absolutely no awareness out there, we only heard of it via a supplier. Couriers haven't heard of it or don't care. My local Chamber of Commerce don't know anything about it, I had to do a webinar with Essex chamber of Commerce to learn about it (the guy was a waste of space anyway).

I would say two things to put your mind at rest:

This is a not a hard deadline - Theres a line within the legislation that basically says as long as you're seen to be trying to comply then that's fine.

There is no inforcement. The couriers are not requiring additional docs so there is no way your goods can be flagged as non-compliant unless you have a problem in which case you can in theory revert to point 1.

This supercedes GPSD which came in 2016 and there's a good chance your goods have not been compliant with that for the last 8 years either.

My business is not going to be compliant by 13th Dec, its an impossibility given the amount of notice we had. We will continue to send product to europe but crucially we are working towards compliance but this will take a long time. I have 1000s of SKUs from 100s of manufacturers most of whom are small and have never heard of GPSR.

Lastly the real reason people have heard about this is because compliance companies know there is a chance to make money here. If you don't have a european presence they can offer one at a cost.

Seems like small UK miniature companies are being caught in the crossfire between the EU and China here.

If small UK manufacturers already missed the 2016 changes and are now surprised by 2023 changes, they aren't caught in anything but their government messing it up

The EU over regulating, causing small businesses and their customers pain and irritation?

Surely not. Who'd have thought that could happen.

Causing businesses outside their borders to have problems trading? One thing not mentioned enough by either side as it was awkward for both remain and leave is its a large market with lots of trade barriers around it. Good if you want little competition inside, bad if you want to export to it.

Heck, the UK has been unprepared for all this coming madness for years now. This was kinda bound to happen for (a) stepping outside of the EU and (b) not stepping out with a good (or any) deal/arrangements.

Heck, I remember getting into some troubles with my tax office over how to invoice UK clients for my design work. All of a sudden I've spent so much time trying to figure out how to deal with UK clients and no one knew. The tax offices and chambers of commerce on both sides of the English Channel had no clue, besides at a certain point one random civil servant in the UK suggesting I should perhaps find a UK accountant to do my taxes, but only the part of the UK clients.

Sadly enough I'm circumventing it by having to charge extra taxes on UK clients and then let my Dutch accountant deal with it at the end. But it is all very vague.

Yay, Brexit! :(

And the UK had no ability to actually discuss and prepare for it, because trying to talk about the realities of Brexit and what issues would need to be overcome was "Project Fear" according to the right-wing press, like the Daily Mail, and people like Boris Johnson who were driving public perception in that direction.

So the government couldn't actually publicly talk about any of this because it would be tantamount to admitting that the entire decision was based on lies by the people who ended up running that very same government!

So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

Could be good old petty bureaucratic bullying on some level. Parcels from Japan clear customs and reach me in record time, while parcels from the UK take well up to a minimum of two weeks to clear customs ever since that lovely clusterfeth was put into motion. I've also had numerous Etsy parcels from the UK from various retailers still get dinged by customs, despite being able to prove I already paid taxes on them and that the forms were in order, but nope, they did it again anyway. This has been resolved since then, but to me it smacked of UK mail just being hit all the harder very deliberately.

 Andrew Rae wrote:

Yeah, I've got a new release coming next week so want to announce properly alongside that. One last hurrah selling to the EU before quickly shutting it down.

It should be temporary though - there are 'affordable' options out there but things need to shake out a bit first, I need to read up properly on my obligations, make sure companies providing the GPSR 'responsible person' service are legit etc etc. Yeah, we should've all had months and months to sort this, but yeesh it's a lot. Hopefully I can get it all sorted to resume selling to the EU in the new year.

I truly hope you get things sorted out. Your stuff is amazing, and you make the best female miniature heads by far.

 BrookM wrote:
Could be good old petty bureaucratic bullying on some level. Parcels from Japan clear customs and reach me in record time, while parcels from the UK take well up to a minimum of two weeks to clear customs ever since that lovely clusterfeth was put into motion. I've also had numerous Etsy parcels from the UK from various retailers still get dinged by customs, despite being able to prove I already paid taxes on them and that the forms were in order, but nope, they did it again anyway. This has been resolved since then, but to me it smacked of UK mail just being hit all the harder very deliberately.

I have similar experiences, but I don't see why every Joe Schmoe postal worker in the EU would hold a grudge over Brexit and actively try to undermine shopping from there. More likely, customs offices have a trust rating of some sort for different countries based on how likely they are to be the origin of counterfeits and other nonsense (every single envelope from China I ever got was inspected even back when under 22€ import was free, while entire crates of models from Hobby Link Japan were always let through for free). And from what I've seen in the however many years it's been, small UK garage companies are absolutely notorious for trying to cheat the system.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Could be good old petty bureaucratic bullying on some level. Parcels from Japan clear customs and reach me in record time, while parcels from the UK take well up to a minimum of two weeks to clear customs ever since that lovely clusterfeth was put into motion. I've also had numerous Etsy parcels from the UK from various retailers still get dinged by customs, despite being able to prove I already paid taxes on them and that the forms were in order, but nope, they did it again anyway. This has been resolved since then, but to me it smacked of UK mail just being hit all the harder very deliberately.

I have similar experiences, but I don't see why every Joe Schmoe postal worker in the EU would hold a grudge over Brexit and actively try to undermine shopping from there. More likely, customs offices have a trust rating of some sort for different countries based on how likely they are to be the origin of counterfeits and other nonsense (every single envelope from China I ever got was inspected even back when under 22€ import was free, while entire crates of models from Hobby Link Japan were always let through for free). And from what I've seen in the however many years it's been, small UK garage companies are absolutely notorious for trying to cheat the system.

The EU's trade agreement with Japan is also considerably more lenient than with the UK, which makes sense as the UK's was something of a rushed mess and the EU held pretty much all of the cards during the negotiations.

 BrookM wrote:
Could be good old petty bureaucratic bullying on some level. Parcels from Japan clear customs and reach me in record time, while parcels from the UK take well up to a minimum of two weeks to clear customs ever since that lovely clusterfeth was put into motion. I've also had numerous Etsy parcels from the UK from various retailers still get dinged by customs, despite being able to prove I already paid taxes on them and that the forms were in order, but nope, they did it again anyway. This has been resolved since then, but to me it smacked of UK mail just being hit all the harder very deliberately.

IIRC, Japan has an actual trade deal with the EU worked out, instead of the no deal that the UK has.

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement

The trade agreement with Japan

removes tariffs and other trade barriers and makes it easier for companies on both sides to import and export
ensures the openness of services markets, in particular financial services, telecommunications and transport
guarantees non-discriminatory treatment of EU businesses operating in the public procurement markets
improves the protection of intellectual property rights in Japan as well as the protection of high-quality European agricultural products, so-called geographical indications (GIs)
saves companies of both sides substantial amounts of money and time when trading goods on the bilaterally
provides for enhanced support of smaller firms which are disproportionately affected by trade barriers

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

Idiocy, gulliblity and complete ignorance of what we had prior to 2016 and what we now have.

You might have noticed but that sort of thing is highly contagious, it's been going around for a while.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

I suspect the USA sellers have no idea this is going to happen (yet)

It's been in the works for years and us in the UK have only just caught on Taro Modelmaker seems to have been one of the first, and lots of small producers who don't follow obscure (thought it shouldn't have been) business new are waking up to it via social media posts following his (as they do follow friends/colleagues & competitors there)

I've also begun to see other posts appearing on mini makers facebooks etc that don't seem to have got the news via the cascade from Taro (although that's possible),

and I've seen a few threads begin to spring up on ebay forums from sellers in other areas as they begin to realise what a nightmare this might be for them selling second hand stuff from vast numbers of manufacturers (some unlabled, some no longer in business, many in business but who won't or cant' provide the info they need or a responsible person perhaps because they don't have one, or they do but don't see why they should help out second hand sellers, or sellers they supply to sell to the UK market while they also sell direct to others in the EU)

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

I suspect it's because EU regulations are simply not on their radars.

I went looking for any sort of discussion on this here in Oz, and likewise came up with absolutely nothing. No chatter, no articles, nothing from government business orgs... Either nobody has noticed it's a thing, or nobody cares.


For what it's worth, I've also seen a couple of comments from UK based businesses pointing out that while the whole thing sounds scary, there's no mechanism in the legislation for enforcement, and many EU countries are at their limit just applying customs charges let alone chasing this stuff down. So there's a good chance that once the dust settles, an increasing number of non-EU businesses just completely ignore it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Olthannon wrote:

Idiocy, gulliblity and complete ignorance of what we had prior to 2016 and what we now have.

You might have noticed but that sort of thing is highly contagious, it's been going around for a while.

Although had Brexit not happened, UK businesses would still be required to comply with the additional administrative work involved in all of this. They just wouldn't have needed a separate 'responsible person' in the EU.

Update from Taro:

Taro Modelmaker wrote:So good news! After a week or more investigating and getting our heads around GPSR and Packaging Waste rules for the EU, we feel confident in the solutions.

It requires a bunch of admin and handing over sums of money. I also need to revisit product and postage costs to the EU to ensure this is all worthwhile. As well as having production information slips produced to go in each parcel and switching to paper packing tape. Bubble wrap seems to be an issue for some countries which is annoying for plinth sales.


Either way there is a solution and I want to ensure it's done right so we can continue hassle free. Doesn't help that I was trying to wind down and relax for Christmas.
Shipping will still temporarily cease to the EU (inc Norway & NI) on the 24th November. This does NOT effect England, Scotland, Wales and or any country outside the EU, such as the USA or Canada. If you would like items for Christmas best get an order in.

We will see you again in the New Year and as always will update with any developments.

Thank you all for your support!

 BrookM wrote:
Could be good old petty bureaucratic bullying on some level. Parcels from Japan clear customs and reach me in record time, while parcels from the UK take well up to a minimum of two weeks to clear customs ever since that lovely clusterfeth was put into motion. I've also had numerous Etsy parcels from the UK from various retailers still get dinged by customs, despite being able to prove I already paid taxes on them and that the forms were in order, but nope, they did it again anyway. This has been resolved since then, but to me it smacked of UK mail just being hit all the harder very deliberately.

I am not an expert, but it's possible that Japan and the US have trade deals in place that make things run smoothly while UK packages are not covered in that and need to get the hairy eyeball.

Which has the same effect, but is more formalized than random irate customs clerks.

USA, Japan or Australia all have trade deals with the EU, just the UK wanted a no-deal brexit and agreed to a minimum (no tariffs) deal later on

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

I suspect the USA sellers have no idea this is going to happen (yet)

insaniak wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

I suspect it's because EU regulations are simply not on their radars.

I went looking for any sort of discussion on this here in Oz, and likewise came up with absolutely nothing. No chatter, no articles, nothing from government business orgs... Either nobody has noticed it's a thing, or nobody cares.

I found several articles/advices for US about this topic but those were at least a year old, also some Australian ones from January this year

so my guess is that you don't hear anything from there because those who need to started to set things in motion a while ago and are not hit by surprise a month before the transition period ends

And great.gov.uk, the UK government's "Export support for UK businesses" site (which they're advertising on the radio) has no search results found for GPSR...

A few words on this topic: there was an 18 month transition period of the GPSR to prepare for this new regulation.

Everyone always just barely gets the changes implemented in time, myself included lol
Everyone who intends to sell in the EU needs to comply with this new regulation, EU manufacturers included!

There is nearly no talk about this anywhere and this will be a rude awakening for a lot of people in December.

The only difference that EU and Non-EU businesses have, is that Non-EU needs an EU rep inside the EU.
This can be anyone, any natural or legal person, business, etc.

This makes it not that hard to band together to keep sales to the EU legal, as most small miniature companies have all their products either in resin, metal or plastic.
Documentation is annoying, but it's also done really fast if all your products are nearly identical.

If any small miniature model business needs an EU rep and help with making their products GPSR compliant, you can write me an email to simon@tabletop-stuff.de
Or check the additional info that I put together here: https://en.tabletop-stuff.de/Information/GPSR-and-EU-representative/



On the waste management: quite a few countries in the EU have started to charge manufacturers for the packaging waste they produce for end consumers.
Aside from Germany, none have made any move to actually track if you have your business registered into this program. So if you wanna save on this until an EU wide standard for this will be made (and it will), skip the waste charges on all countries except Germany (and it's really cheap here, lilke 25 € / year for 8kg paper and 2kg plastic), they have no database, and small companies have just a few packages that no one will notice.

That's really helpful, thanks Hanskrampf.

Personally, my radar had pinged this a while back but I couldn't face another regulation document after getting far too deep into the 2021 VAT changes. It amazing how quickly things creep up on you when you're really busy!

If I were a man with more time on his hands I'd capitalise on this panic due to living in NI and having free access to the EU markets.

Just casually googling this it seems remarkably difficult to find any information on what the regulations require you to do specifically.
To me as someone that's worked in the food industry a lot, it mostly seems like what we do there. Batch code and supplier records for traceability?
Risk assessments should have some guidance but for miniatures you'd probably just slap the same one on everything along the lines of 'don't feed this to toddlers'.

 Commitz wrote:
If I were a man with more time on his hands I'd capitalise on this panic due to living in NI and having free access to the EU markets.

You would think so - however, I have a feeling NI traders are getting whacked with this as well.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Commitz wrote:
If I were a man with more time on his hands I'd capitalise on this panic due to living in NI and having free access to the EU markets.

You would think so - however, I have a feeling NI traders are getting whacked with this as well.

NI is still part of the single market so the EU point of contact should be themselves. Past that the regulations don't look much different from this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-product-safety-regulations-2005/general-product-safety-regulations-2005-northern-ireland#obligations-of-producers

 Commitz wrote:
If I were a man with more time on his hands I'd capitalise on this panic due to living in NI and having free access to the EU markets.

Just casually googling this it seems remarkably difficult to find any information on what the regulations require you to do specifically.
To me as someone that's worked in the food industry a lot, it mostly seems like what we do there. Batch code and supplier records for traceability?
Risk assessments should have some guidance but for miniatures you'd probably just slap the same one on everything along the lines of 'don't feed this to toddlers'.

Basically, yes. It's a catch-all regulation for stuff that slipped through the regulations for medical, food, toys, etc. until now.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So generally curious on this. Why aren't we seeing any US companies saying they're not able to ship to the EU? Why is it only UK caught up in this?

US companies are starting to notice:

Penny Arcade wrote:As of December 31st, 2024, Penny Arcade will be closing orders to the EU and Northern Ireland, due to the implementation of the GPSR. This applies to all physical and digital goods on the PA store, including Club PA merch items, and other free items.

The new regulations are very extensive, and until we’re certain we can meet them, we’ll unfortunately be closing orders to these countries for the foreseeable future.

We will be accepting orders from the EU and Northern Ireland through the end of the year, so please get any orders in before then. This is limited to any items that were in stock as of 12/13/24, which is everything currently on the store. If any new items are added before 12/31/24, they will not be eligible for purchase under the new guidelines.