Switch Theme:

Gender In 40k And Marines  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






OK. How about this.

GW change Custards, so they’re made from men and the dreaded wimmins.

A few people at least pretend to lose their minds. A further minority of unhinged people claim this is going to bury GW. This includes bizarre conspiracy theories that the change was made “under the radar” by an intern or similar.

GW then release a very well received animation on Warhammer+ featuring, fear of fears, a female Custodes. Who wears regular Auramite armour.

The sad git brigade say little more, though some desperately continue to try to peddle their conspiracy theory that secret heads are secretly rolling.

GW post further record takings and profits.

Show me in this only slightly facetious summary of events where a bunch of sad gits throwing a hissy fit had any impact beyond making themselves look very silly, and giving others a bit of a chuckle entirely at their expense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 00:29:31


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
OK. How about this.

GW change Custards, so they’re made from men and the dreaded wimmins.

A few people at least pretend to lose their minds. A further minority of unhinged people claim this is going to bury GW. This includes bizarre conspiracy theories that the change was made “under the radar” by an intern or similar.

GW then release a very well received animation on Warhammer+ featuring, fear of fears, a female Custodes. Who wears regular Auramite armour.

The sad git brigade say little more, though some desperately continue to try to peddle their conspiracy theory that secret heads are secretly rolling.

GW post further record takings and profits.

Show me in this only slightly facetious summary of events where a bunch of sad gits throwing a hissy fit had any impact beyond making themselves look very silly, and giving others a bit of a chuckle entirely at their expense.

Sure. Real talk?

As you "chuckle at the expense of the sad git brigade" more drift rightward politically in reaction, possibly resulting in important institutions making life harder for those very groups you wish to represent. (And maybe everyone else, too) It wouldn't be my vote, but it's something I worry about.

Antisocial men need their spaces too.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 03:02:35


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
OK. How about this.

GW change Custards, so they’re made from men and the dreaded wimmins.

A few people at least pretend to lose their minds. A further minority of unhinged people claim this is going to bury GW. This includes bizarre conspiracy theories that the change was made “under the radar” by an intern or similar.

GW then release a very well received animation on Warhammer+ featuring, fear of fears, a female Custodes. Who wears regular Auramite armour.

The sad git brigade say little more, though some desperately continue to try to peddle their conspiracy theory that secret heads are secretly rolling.

GW post further record takings and profits.

Show me in this only slightly facetious summary of events where a bunch of sad gits throwing a hissy fit had any impact beyond making themselves look very silly, and giving others a bit of a chuckle entirely at their expense.


Does me picking up 1500pts of used Custodes for only $120 USD (counting shipping!) + then buying a Codex at the local shop count as an impact?
Or is that part of "at thier expense"?

Right after the codex dropped & fools were howling about the mention of FM custodes, I began seeing alot of Custodes being dumped at stupid low prices.
Were the former owners mad about rules? About there now being FM custodes in the lore? Both?
Whatever the reason, it was a heck of a savings for me.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 Insectum7 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
OK. How about this.

GW change Custards, so they’re made from men and the dreaded wimmins.

A few people at least pretend to lose their minds. A further minority of unhinged people claim this is going to bury GW. This includes bizarre conspiracy theories that the change was made “under the radar” by an intern or similar.

GW then release a very well received animation on Warhammer+ featuring, fear of fears, a female Custodes. Who wears regular Auramite armour.

The sad git brigade say little more, though some desperately continue to try to peddle their conspiracy theory that secret heads are secretly rolling.

GW post further record takings and profits.

Show me in this only slightly facetious summary of events where a bunch of sad gits throwing a hissy fit had any impact beyond making themselves look very silly, and giving others a bit of a chuckle entirely at their expense.

Sure. Real talk?

As you "chuckle at the expense of the sad git brigade" more drift rightward politically in reaction, possibly resulting in important institutions making life harder for those very groups you wish to represent. (And maybe everyone else, too) It wouldn't be my vote, but it's something I worry about.

Antisocial men need their spaces too.




It doesn't even have to be antisocial people. I think a lot of people generally feel somewhat attacked when the thing they like and have an attachment to is claimed to be bad because it isn't up to some other people's standards or check certain boxes. It just seems to alienate people away from the cause more than it does to help with increasing inclusion.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






^Yessir, agree.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






And….was anyone keeping tabs on second hand Custards armies before female Custodes were introduced?

Anyone?

No?

Bueller?

Dust?

Welcome to the odd world of perception filters, where things are only closely observed when there’s some kind of controversy, manufactured or otherwise, and presented as evidence of doom. When in fact, because absolutely nobody kept tabs on it
before or since, there’s no benchmark.

And still no negative impact has been demonstrated. At all. And so the bizarre outrage remains short lived, and entirely impotent.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




The sale of custodes as a model range isn't inherently linked to the femstodes conversation imo.

The point being made about "go woke go broke" etc. Is that it impacts the company's image and turns away people from them at an ideological level.

So we can conclusively say not enough people were intensely upset at GW over it to not buy from them, as they've continually done well.

If they were so offended over female custodes that they had to go buy a manly men space marine army to feel better, then GW maybe played it right?
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And still no negative impact has been demonstrated. At all. And so the bizarre outrage remains short lived, and entirely impotent.
Custodes are irrelevant - total cash attributed to female custodes on GWs books is zero.

As I said a number of pages back if they are going to take a punt on female marines it is going to be off the back of red hot sales of things like sisters of battle, which none of you lot that responded are buying.

GW are making a large amount of profit. Marines are a large part of that profit. Sisters don't appear to be. From a purely business perspective why put your money on the line for what is ultimately a sprue of head swaps and perhaps a named character or two - female space marines aren't even a new model line given their gene-edited nature and one size fits all power armour.

Without some kind of positive cashflow from comparable products 'we want female space marines' is going to look a whole lot like 'we want you to re-screen Morbius'.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






There’s an awful lot of assumptions in there, and I don’t think we have any evidence to support or really deny.

Factual Information

GW have, again, reported record takings and profits in excess of expectation.

GW changed the background of Custodes so recruits can be male or female

Common knowledge, and likely fact

Space Marines represent a significant percentage of GW’s sales - but as GW don’t break down their takings by game system, let alone army, we’ve no way of knowing what that percentage is

Outright assumptions without evidence

Sisters don’t make up a significant percentage of GW’s sales

Custodes don’t make up a significant percentage of GW’s sales

GW will only introduce Female Space Marines if the Sisters of Battle are selling well.


So I’m afraid I can’t agree with your claims, as there’s little to no evidence to support them.

What we can say? The introduction of female Custodes has had no noticeable negative impact on GW’s sales, despite the wilder claims made at the time, and the claim in this thread of “go woke go broke”.

Did female Custodes actively increase sales? Absolutely no idea. I dare say some will have picked up a new army to embrace that. But even then? That doesn’t mean it was paid for from new hobby budget. As in, we can’t say those that did buy into Custodes to have females in it, did so in addition to their regular, planned hobby spend.

Likewise anyone selling a second hand army. We don’t know what they did with the resulting funds. Maybe it was spent on a new GW project, maybe it was for car repairs, shopping, beer, ciggies etc.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Outright assumptions without evidence
Sisters don’t make up a significant percentage of GW’s sales
Custodes don’t make up a significant percentage of GW’s sales
GW will only introduce Female Space Marines if the Sisters of Battle are selling well.
Lets not pretend that sisters are some kind of hot ticket right now. Their battleforce isn't going out of stock any time soon, nor did the hereticus set, nor did the sisters set before it.

I am sure they are selling some models but if it was an amount to make GW reconsider their marine line we'd have seen more than another bid to shift repentia and rhinos and a muted pack-in with old blackstone fortress models.

As for custodes my only statement is that female custodes don't sell, which is factual - there aren't any models. I speculated a number of pages back that GW may try a few to test the water on female marines. At the end of the day it isn't impossible that GW will just take a massive punt on the line but I would think they'd want something they can show to their shareholders first.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






That screech was a moving of the goalposts, folks.

And another application of a baseless assumption, that for female Space Marines to come about, Sisters of Battle must first sell really well.

And the animation showed no difference in male and female Custodes armour. No boobplate. No tactical bikini. No thinning of the proportions to suggest femininity. So the lack of female models is more down to a lack of female unhelmeted heads, and Custodes haven’t had a release in the intervening time, and even then, we shouldn’t expect feminine armour or proportions.

And the rest remains speculation, including that changing the background to allow for female Space Marines is a punt or a risk in the first place, let alone that such a change might noticeably and negatively impact anything.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in eu
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And the animation showed no difference in male and female Custodes armour. No boobplate. No tactical bikini. No thinning of the proportions to suggest femininity. So the lack of female models is more down to a lack of female unhelmeted heads, and Custodes haven’t had a release in the intervening time, and even then, we shouldn’t expect feminine armour or proportions.


Saw this and thought it rather relevant:

https://www.deviantart.com/sigvardsteel/art/Female-Space-Marine-338739042

Probably safe for work, anatomical diagram rather than anything titillating
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That screech was a moving of the goalposts, folks.
They are exactly the same goalposts that GW used in the 80s

Are female models selling well - yes / no
- or rather do we think female models will be profitable based on cold hard sales figures - yes / no.

That's it, nothing more. The other 20 pages of pearl clutching don't amount to a hill of beans.
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Did the introduction of female and poc heads in the Guard impact sales? Did Lieutenant Mira turn the Space Marine game into a flop?
Did Black Library books that crammed as many women as possible in every non-SM position somehow sell less than older books that didn't? Did black Space Wolves alienate more people than the new Wulfen models? Do transpeople in Admech lore keep people from buying into that army?

The answer to all of these questions is somewhere between "we don’t know" and "apparently not". Let's face it, outside of the Astartes 40K already is full on "woke" (arguably it has been when it started satirizing fascism but that might stretch how the word is often understood).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 11:51:29


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Crispy78 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And the animation showed no difference in male and female Custodes armour. No boobplate. No tactical bikini. No thinning of the proportions to suggest femininity. So the lack of female models is more down to a lack of female unhelmeted heads, and Custodes haven’t had a release in the intervening time, and even then, we shouldn’t expect feminine armour or proportions.


Saw this and thought it rather relevant:

https://www.deviantart.com/sigvardsteel/art/Female-Space-Marine-338739042

Probably safe for work, anatomical diagram rather than anything titillating


And that’s assuming the Dirty Pillows are retained, or develop at all, what with serious hormones being pumped into an ideal pre-puberty subject.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A.T. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That screech was a moving of the goalposts, folks.
They are exactly the same goalposts that GW used in the 80s

Are female models selling well - yes / no
- or rather do we think female models will be profitable based on cold hard sales figures - yes / no.

That's it, nothing more. The other 20 pages of pearl clutching don't amount to a hill of beans.


Except GW now demonstrably appeals to a much wider and more varied demographic, altering things.

Society has also moved on in terms of expected gender roles. Women in the armed forces for one, and the glass ceiling being challenged. In short? We’re somewhat less sexist than in the 80’s. So “oh no, not a female warrior” isn’t what it was.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 11:51:09


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We’re somewhat less sexist than in the 80’s. So “oh no, not a female warrior” isn’t what it was.
And when sales reflect that I am sure GW will make the jump, just like in the 80s when they were targeting 20-25% female models and the public said no.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






And right now? The assumption is entirely your own that sales aren’t reflecting that. And as I’ve stressed? It’s an assumption without evidence.

Let’s look at what you’d need to reasonably demonstrate here.

1. Sisters of Battle aren’t selling well enough for GW’s tastes

2. Sisters of Battle aren’t selling well enough, and the predominant reason is it’s an army largely comprised of female sculpts.

3. Space Marines are selling well because they’re all all male army.

Adding point 4. And 5.

4. And because Sisters of Battle aren’t selling well enough, predominantly because it’s an army largely comprised of female sculpts, therefore adding some female heads to Space Marines kits would significantly impact sales of Space Marines

5. Those reduced sales are lost entirely, and not spent on other GW offerings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 12:45:02


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Let’s look at what you’d need to reasonably demonstrate here.
Space Marines just need to be selling demonstrated well. Not why, just if. And from there any change represents risk.

I believe it is a reasonable assumption that if Sisters of Battle sales were lighting the profit sheets on fire or at least punching above their weight then we would have at least seen something - more focus on sisters, testing the water with actual female custodes models, something, anything.


But at the end of the day assumptions or not there is one undeniable fact - GW aren't selling female marines. That means whatever we think for them the numbers don't add up.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I'd be amazed if they didn't give at least a big temporary bounce in sales on release. People with no interest in the game even would buy them as a backlash to the backlash but loads of the more "progressive" hobbyists would just get them to increase the sales too. This happens with loads of products.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




A.T. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Let’s look at what you’d need to reasonably demonstrate here.
Space Marines just need to be selling demonstrated well. Not why, just if. And from there any change represents risk.

I believe it is a reasonable assumption that if Sisters of Battle sales were lighting the profit sheets on fire or at least punching above their weight then we would have at least seen something - more focus on sisters, testing the water with actual female custodes models, something, anything.


But at the end of the day assumptions or not there is one undeniable fact - GW aren't selling female marines. That means whatever we think for them the numbers don't add up.


GW gets overwhelming customer request to redo the entire sisters range > overwhelming positive feedback on the new range > other ranges expanded with more of a female presence (guard primarily but also more notable in AoS) > introduces female custodes > doubles down via an animation

Sure, GW haven't done anything since. They're going to move slowly rather than just out of the blue bombard the base with "WE HEARD YOU LIKE WOMEN?!?!!?".
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tzeentch's Fan Girl






Southern New Hampshire

Look at Slaves to Darkness.

In the entire history of WHFB, I think mortal Chaos only had exactly one female: Valkia the Bloody. (fun note: the one person who suggested she wasn't fit to lead because she was a woman wound up decorating her shield.)

Now, we've had several named characters (some of which were for Warhammer Underworlds), a quasi-generic Hero model, and now rank-and-file Marauders and Chaos Warriors are getting female sculpts.

I truly think this is only a matter of time before women break the Astartes ceiling.

She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






A.T. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Let’s look at what you’d need to reasonably demonstrate here.
Space Marines just need to be selling demonstrated well. Not why, just if. And from there any change represents risk.

I believe it is a reasonable assumption that if Sisters of Battle sales were lighting the profit sheets on fire or at least punching above their weight then we would have at least seen something - more focus on sisters, testing the water with actual female custodes models, something, anything.


But at the end of the day assumptions or not there is one undeniable fact - GW aren't selling female marines. That means whatever we think for them the numbers don't add up.


Again, your conclusion is based solely in assumption. Specifically that the future possibility of female Astartes is a risk in the first place.

Mixed gender hasn’t hurt any other army so far as we can tell. Leagues of Votann, Imperial Guard, Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Slaves to Darkness, Stormcast Eternals, Lumineth Realmlords, Soulblight, Nighthaunt, Sylvaneth, Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin. They all have some form of female representation within their ranks. Oh, and some ladies among the Chaos Cultists.

That’s a lot of armies. And given GW continue to experience significant sales growth, and have done since this diversification, I think the only reasonable conclusion is the presence of male and female sculpts in a given range hasn’t hurt sales.

Note that I am not pinning GW’s growth on their presence, because like those saying it would be a negative impact, I don’t have the information or evidence to make such a claim, and there are other factors in play (wider offering of games systems with varying buy in costs, pandemic uptick, greater efforts to promote themselves online to name a few). But, it clearly doesn’t seem to have hurt them any.

Therefore, I don’t agree with your assumption that adding female Space Marines is any sort of a risk.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Therefore, I don’t agree with your assumption that adding female Space Marines is any sort of a risk.
That is a position that we are going to have to remain in disagreement on then.

Change is always a risk. If it wasn't then GW would have already done it, or at least the free social part of it, - because why not if there was no risk.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Somewhere in Canada

A.T. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We’re somewhat less sexist than in the 80’s. So “oh no, not a female warrior” isn’t what it was.
And when sales reflect that I am sure GW will make the jump, just like in the 80s when they were targeting 20-25% female models and the public said no.


For the record A.T. I don't actually doubt your premise. I agree that change will only occur if GW suspects it will have a positive effect on the bottom line.

But every time I see someone post about those old fem marines, I have to point out that they might have sold if the hadn't been some of the worst sculpts in GW history.

I wonder how well Suppressors and Desolators sell compared to the rest of the marine range- they too are some of the worst sculpts GW has ever produced.

And for the final question: when adjusted for the size of the player base at the time of release, I wonder if the garbage FSM models outsold the garbage Suppressors and Desolators. As I said in the worst model ever thread, if someone gave me any of these models as a gift, I'm not sure I'd accept it, and in order for me to actually paint and play with them, someone would have to be paying me.

I don't doubt that GW did use the poor sales of garbage FSM to justify not making good ones, but it's a shame they did. If the models had been higher quality, we might not be having this discussion right now.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Becuase they’ve other stuff going on seems the most likely answer, and would need to consider how to introduce it, background wise.

And remember, I’m not actively advocating for Female Space Marines. My only horse in this race is that if/when GW pull that trigger, we get some cool new background to go with it. I certainly don’t fancy “and there always has been”. Not for Astartes, one of the most explored force in 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to think of it, there’s another error in assumption.

As covered earlier in the thread, in the early days GW were told by outlets not to send more female models, because they’re not selling. As confirmed in a shared Tweet by I think Rick Priestly. And so they didn’t produce any more female models.

But there’s another glaring difference between then and now.

Specifically? Back then, they were individual models. But now, we get multi-part kits, with variant heads.

And given Female Space Marines, like Female Custodes, needn’t require feminine body shape in models? Those variant heads are really all that needs doing.

So again….wheres the risk? Because whilst I can imagine there are some weirdos out there who will refuse to buy something because it has an option they don’t like? You’re not talking about a great many people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 15:20:29


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 PenitentJake wrote:
But every time I see someone post about those old fem marines, I have to point out that they might have sold if the hadn't been some of the worst sculpts in GW history.
They weren't the models that killed the idea off. The decision was made based on sales from a prior citadel line according to Rick Priestley which gave the company cold feet going into rogue trader.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





A.T. wrote:As I said a number of pages back if they are going to take a punt on female marines it is going to be off the back of red hot sales of things like sisters of battle, which none of you lot that responded are buying.
Obviously, it's unprovable and just one person, but I would like to just say that I *did* start Sisters when they went into plastic, and I've bought into them as much as I did all my other non-Space Marine projects.

Did I buy the new box? No, but I didn't buy any of the others either (and, to be completely honest, had I not already bought an Exorcist and Zephyrim squad closer to when they first came out, I'd have been all over this new box because it's everything I love in the Sisters army).


As for the comments on "bottom line is that GW aren't making women Astartes", I'd like to add the word "yet" into that.

GW weren't making plastic Sisters. Until they were. GW weren't making women Guardsmen in their regular squads, and instead saving them as one-off sculpts. Until they did include women in regular Guardsmen kits. GW didn't have fem-presenting Stormcast. Until they did.

It's because of those reasons that I don't particularly put stock into "well, they haven't done it yet, so that means they won't in the future" style arguments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A.T. wrote:
Change is always a risk. If it wasn't then GW would have already done it, or at least the free social part of it, - because why not if there was no risk.
Just so I'm understanding your point correctly, are you suggesting that, in 2018, GW wouldn't have released plastic Sisters of Battle, because they hadn't already? Or that they wouldn't have released Leagues of Votann in 2022, because they hadn't already released them in 2021?

We can definitely state the obvious that GW *hasn't* done it, but we always need to finish that with the qualifier of "yet", because we simply don't know what GW will do next, and they've demonstrated that they are quite capable of introducing/releasing things without indication beforehand (and, if anything, the introduction of women across the board in humanoid factions in both 40k, AoS, and WHFB, especially in Custodes, indicates a trend that woman Astartes might be coming at some point down the line).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/12/06 17:13:43



They/them

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Becuase they’ve other stuff going on seems the most likely answer, and would need to consider how to introduce it, background wise.

And remember, I’m not actively advocating for Female Space Marines. My only horse in this race is that if/when GW pull that trigger, we get some cool new background to go with it. I certainly don’t fancy “and there always has been”. Not for Astartes, one of the most explored force in 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to think of it, there’s another error in assumption.

As covered earlier in the thread, in the early days GW were told by outlets not to send more female models, because they’re not selling. As confirmed in a shared Tweet by I think Rick Priestly. And so they didn’t produce any more female models.

But there’s another glaring difference between then and now.

Specifically? Back then, they were individual models. But now, we get multi-part kits, with variant heads.

And given Female Space Marines, like Female Custodes, needn’t require feminine body shape in models? Those variant heads are really all that needs doing.

So again….wheres the risk? Because whilst I can imagine there are some weirdos out there who will refuse to buy something because it has an option they don’t like? You’re not talking about a great many people.


The risk isn't to GW but more so the larger culture war that is pushing younger males towards the right. Individually it's not going to move the needle much but the narrative of forced inclusion and "fixing" older IP to be more politically correct has a knock on effect of making a lot of males feel like certain parts of society think being male is not a good thing or even bad. While most of this sort of stuff isn't trying to attack males, it can feel like an attack which is alienating.

Take this hypothetical, your a guy who likes the 40k faction of powered armored transhuman macho men. You don't have a problem with women and think people are people and everyone should be treater fairly in everyday life. Your good with Sisters being all women, Guard having men and women, etc but you like your boys club of macho men armored refrigerators. The lore has been established for decades that these powered armored transhumans are produced from men because of biological in-universe science reasons so whatever. Your happy playing with your minis and enjoying the lore.

Then you have people saying how it's not good that women can't be Space Marines (not that women can't play 40k or use Space Marines but that in-universe women can't become Space Marines) and that the lore should/needs to be changed to allow women to become Space Marines. Yes it's an ultimately unimportant issue in the grand scheme of things but it sends the message to that male Space Marines enjoyer that he is kinda wrong for liking his boys club of macho men and that comes across as being male isn't valid to be a theme. Because while the idea is to increase diversity and inclusiveness, it's done at the cost of masculinity being considered a worthwhile thing.

Hardly anyone wants Sisters to be male because the core theme of the faction is that they are all female and the artistic expression of the faction is super cool. The same should be true for Space Marines which has certain themes and style in which being all male plays a part of. It isn't a case of "no girls allowed" for the hobby and in general it think the geeky hobbiest space has become increasingly more inclusive and accepting of people. But it's these sorts of micro aggressions that build a feeling of anti male sentiment because it's apparently not ok to have an all boys club faction in a fictional entertainment IP that is for the most part quite inclusive for a setting centered around constant war.

The evidence of that sort of male alienation can be seen with voting trends for young males shifting to the right when historically younger people tend to vote more on the left (at least in the US).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/06 17:42:04


"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Just so I'm understanding your point correctly, are you suggesting that, in 2018, GW wouldn't have released plastic Sisters of Battle, because they hadn't already?
Nope.

It was suggested that female space marines were not a risk. I disagreed and further stated that as marines were GWs big money maker they would likely be looking to sales from other lines to determine if they wanted to rock that particular boat rather than taking a punt and hoping for the best.
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






The Land of Humidity

Do you think the Custodes was a testing of the waters, to see what the response would be?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Voices of the Omnissiah: Quotations from the Adeptus Mechanicus
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: