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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






During the Unification Wars the IXth Legion (what would become the Blood Angels) recruited from some of the most degraded and mutated stock of humanity left on Terra, and turned them into nigh angelic beings.

The same happens on Baal and there is a specific example of a child with a physical defect getting picked as an aspirant because fixing his damaged spine is nothing to Astartes Apothecaries when he shows remarkable resistance to the strain of combat and watching his father being consumed by a Tyranid bioweapon.

That's what Astartes look for, aspirants who can handle the mental strain of having their entire existence ripped apart and remade. Strength helps but simply being strong doesn't cut it and again, strength can be gained through training. You can't train an aspirant to push themselves beyond their physical limits, that's something innate to each individual.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 17:51:18


 
   
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 Crimson wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Given that the conversion process is supposed to be physically taxing, I daresay that physical fitness is also something they look for.


Tell that to the Blood Angels.

Doesn't their recruitment process involve a bunch of gladiatorial combat and athletics? Pretty sure that counts as physical fitness.
Its not as if the Blood Angels grab some poor kid off the street and make him drink from a cup, and even that process is physically demanding, with most of their aspirants just dying from the sheer strain of the metabolic processes going on.


They specifically recruit miserable dregs suffering from radiation sickness.

Ok and? Apparently they are still expected to cross a desert. Maybe I'm using out of date information, but that is what I could find on their recruitment process.

What I have
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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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The Land of Humidity

I'm a little confused about this tangent... what does it have to do with women not being viable Imperial Space Marines?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
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A chunk of the selection process is finding those to whom the chemical, hypnotic and psychic indoctrination will take.

Not just for loyalty to the Chapter and Imperium, but to essentially give them the subconscious ability not just to run the human physiology, but the Astartes physiology. Because you can’t just take a person, stuff them full of Space Magic Squishy Organs and expect the brain to just know what to do.

As for failure rate? That seems to vary wildly.

Dark Angel and Ultramarine geneseed is known to be remarkable stable, showing relatively little degeneration down the millennia. Other Chapters have lost certain implant organs entirely, and may have higher failure rates.

This is part of the reason every Chapter tithes Geneseed to the Administratum. As well as preserving samples in a “eggs aren’t all in one basket” way, it’s checked for stability and purity, stockpiled not just to help ensure that Chapter’s continued existence, but for future Foundings.

As I think Gert said? You can transform anyone’s body with proper diet, exercise and that. But changing someone’s personality? That’s much trickier. And that’s before we start considering the necessities of Spade Magic Body Upgrades.

And as I’ve said before? In the grand scheme of things the physical differences between men and women really aren’t that pronounced. And given just how ridiculously strong and tough an Astartes can make even a heavily irradiated wretch compared to a non-enhanced irradiated wretch, I really don’t see a hypothetical female Astartes being that much different, if at all, than a male candidate when all is literally said and done.

Think Captain America. It amplifies everything, including your “spirit”. And so you’re cautious to ensure you have a compliant, pliable candidate who’ll do as they’re indoctrinated to.

To carry this further? A pet hypothesis of mine. We’re often told Astartes know no fear. And for Loyalists that’s represented on the tabletop. But not for Chaos Marines. My hypothesis there? Chaos Marines have at least partially broken their conditioning, and begin to exhibit a great degree of self preservation, being willing to fall back from an untenable situation, if doing so would allow them to regroup and sort out a future attack, where a regular Astartes likely needs a specific order to yield ground.

Swings and roundabouts to both there of course.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 18:17:09


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 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm a little confused about this tangent... what does it have to do with women not being viable Imperial Space Marines?

The point is that given the recruitment milieu and incredibly lethal and selective process, its highly unlikely for there to be FSM in any significant quantity.
Imagine if training for SEAL meant you have a incredibly high chance of dying. Not actually deploying, training itself. That's basically the space marine process but worse, and remember that very few women, if any, even qualify to become a SEAL.
I do not see Feudal and Feral worlds being keen on sending young girls off to die in some wilderness somewhere either.

Ironically, Sisters of Battle should make good stock, as they are already exceptional individuals and are even respected by Marines.
However, I don't think erasing one faction in favor of another is a good idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 18:37:47


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Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

Except there's still a grueling selection process to go through, so no, my argument is not a non-starter, as the recruits are still very much human when they are required to cross through a desert, ash wastes, live on a deathworld or survive in a vacuum.
You don't just pump an aspirant full of geneseed and then start training them, there's a selection process to go through first to make sure that they can even survive receiving the geneseed to begin with, as its such a huge investment of precious resources.
This isn't captain America where all you need is a little injection of a wonder drug, there's more to it than that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 18:51:44


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Made in gb
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Marine training starts as a child - SoB are already too old by the time they are trained to be standard consideration for Marine Training.

Also I think you're vastly under-estimating the populations the Imperium has to work with. The SoB are by no means big enough to have recruited every able bodied woman in the Imperium suitable for battlefield deployment - not even close.

Heck even the Imperial Guard can't recruit on that scale from the entire population (though some worlds are near enough like that on recruitment).

The Imperium sends many to war; but its got a VAST population.

Again even the real world planet you live on today could support several Chapters worth of Space Marines in recruitment even with a high fail rate. If it were open to men and women then you've an even better situation because now you've 50% MORE population to work with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

Except there's still a grueling selection process to go through, so no, my argument is not a non-starter, as the recruits are still very much human when they are required to cross through a desert, ash wastes, live on a deathworld or survive in a vacuum.
You don't just pump an aspirant full of geneseed and then start training them, there's a selection process to go through first to make sure that they can even survive receiving the geneseed to begin with, as its such a huge investment of precious resources.
This isn't captain America where all you need is a little injection of a wonder drug, there's more to it than that.


Actually Captain America is a perfect example because there WAS a training program before selection. The only difference is that Space Marine training is more brutal and based on real combat and danger situations not just on theory or training grounds. Again the Marines don't care if you die - the Imperium has a grossly overpopulated population to throw into battle. They are more limited on the war front by munitions, supplies and transports than human bodies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 18:56:56


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok and? Apparently they are still expected to cross a desert. Maybe I'm using out of date information, but that is what I could find on their recruitment process.


I'm curious as to what part of crossing a desert requires being male.

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 BorderCountess wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok and? Apparently they are still expected to cross a desert. Maybe I'm using out of date information, but that is what I could find on their recruitment process.


I'm curious as to what part of crossing a desert requires being male.

Where did I say that being male was an absolute requirement? That was in response to the claim that Blood Angels just need their aspirants to drink from the gross sippy cup.
It's going to be bloody difficult for either a boy or a girl, and either one has a high rate of failure because that's what the marine selection process is designed to do.
Please do not take what I write out of context.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:


Again even the real world planet you live on today could support several Chapters worth of Space Marines in recruitment even with a high fail rate. If it were open to men and women then you've an even better situation because now you've 50% MORE population to work with.

I'm not sure a substantial increase in training related casualties is healthy overall. I'm sure the population would recover eventually, Europe did survive the black death and the world wars, after all, but I think in terms of morale it might be a bit of problem. Marines may not care if their recruits die, but I'm pretty sure that recruits relatives do.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:12:23


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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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Southern New Hampshire

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 BorderCountess wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok and? Apparently they are still expected to cross a desert. Maybe I'm using out of date information, but that is what I could find on their recruitment process.


I'm curious as to what part of crossing a desert requires being male.

Where did I say that being male was an absolute requirement? That was in response to the claim that Blood Angels just need their aspirants to drink from the gross sippy cup.
It's going to be bloody difficult for either a boy or a girl, and either one has a high rate of failure because that's what the marine selection process is designed to do.
Please do not take what I write out of context.


You've been defending the 'no girls allowed' stance by claiming those assigned female at birth aren't going to be able meet the Astartes' nebulous physical standards. I'm not sure how I misinterpreted the context of your 'crossing the desert' example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:12:21


She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

Except there's still a grueling selection process to go through, so no, my argument is not a non-starter, as the recruits are still very much human when they are required to cross through a desert, ash wastes, live on a deathworld or survive in a vacuum.
You don't just pump an aspirant full of geneseed and then start training them, there's a selection process to go through first to make sure that they can even survive receiving the geneseed to begin with, as its such a huge investment of precious resources.
This isn't captain America where all you need is a little injection of a wonder drug, there's more to it than that.


Gruelling that a pre or barely pubescent kid can survive. Y’know, before sexual dimorphism has really manifested itself.

Not post-puberty. Whilst your body is still largely that of a child. Importantly? Keep in mind that during the Great Crusade, constant expansion and backfilling saw Astartes recruited in vast numbers, galaxy wide.

The implication there is the exacting standards of modern Chapters isn’t a necessity, but a preference where their recruitment has a strict limit. That where you might be looking to recruit two rather than two hundred, you will be fussier.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm a little confused about this tangent... what does it have to do with women not being viable Imperial Space Marines?

The point is that given the recruitment milieu and incredibly lethal and selective process, its highly unlikely for there to be FSM in any significant quantity.
Imagine if training for SEAL meant you have a incredibly high chance of dying. Not actually deploying, training itself. That's basically the space marine process but worse, and remember that very few women, if any, even qualify to become a SEAL.


See, you and I looked at the same evidence and came away with dramatically different interpretations. We know that Blood Angels recruit from sickly people who have basically been undergoing forced chemotherapy via their planet's irradiated wasteland. Being a Mad Max war boy on his worst day apparently doesn't prevent a guy from being chosen to become an astartes. And your argument is that a healthy, well-fed, well-trained warrior woman from a Catachan-esque planet is going to be worse at sports than the poisoned guy suffering from lifelong malnourishment? Not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're expecting sexual dimorphism to do a crazy amount of work there. Like, an unreasonable amount.

I do not see Feudal and Feral worlds being keen on sending young girls off to die in some wilderness somewhere either.

The imperium is enormous and full of Planets of Hats. And full of planets who treat having a family member join the astartes as a massive honor. You don't think that somewhere in the vastness of the imperium where there is only war, there might be a few planets where badass shield maidens exist and want to beat up aliens so that their families will benefit from the resulting honor for centuries to come?


EDIT: The physical competitions for becoming a marine are also kind of impractical. Like, they exist because we like reading about the nonsense involved and going, "Woah! Brutal!" But in-universe, there isn't much practical reason for it. If you want to find out who has good instincts for fighting or survival, you can test those traits without having to actually kill a bunch of potentially useful recruits. And if you're trying to get them in shape to help their bodies survive the implantation process, that's probably better achieved through healthy diet and exercise than through death tournaments or having them rock climb over an active volcano or whatever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:18:44



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

 BorderCountess wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 BorderCountess wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok and? Apparently they are still expected to cross a desert. Maybe I'm using out of date information, but that is what I could find on their recruitment process.


I'm curious as to what part of crossing a desert requires being male.

Where did I say that being male was an absolute requirement? That was in response to the claim that Blood Angels just need their aspirants to drink from the gross sippy cup.
It's going to be bloody difficult for either a boy or a girl, and either one has a high rate of failure because that's what the marine selection process is designed to do.
Please do not take what I write out of context.


You've been defending the 'no girls allowed' stance by claiming those assigned female at birth aren't going to be able meet the Astartes' nebulous physical standards. I'm not sure how I misinterpreted the context of your 'crossing the desert' example.

I don't see how "pass or you die" is a nebulous standard. That seems pretty definitive to me.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Given that marine aspirants are indeed kids, and often recruited from populations with way less than ideal living conditions, I'd surmise that the testing is more about grit, fighting spirit and other such psychological aspects.

   
Made in fr
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on the forum. Obviously

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

Except there's still a grueling selection process to go through, so no, my argument is not a non-starter, as the recruits are still very much human when they are required to cross through a desert, ash wastes, live on a deathworld or survive in a vacuum.
You don't just pump an aspirant full of geneseed and then start training them, there's a selection process to go through first to make sure that they can even survive receiving the geneseed to begin with, as its such a huge investment of precious resources.
This isn't captain America where all you need is a little injection of a wonder drug, there's more to it than that.


Gruelling that a pre or barely pubescent kid can survive. Y’know, before sexual dimorphism has really manifested itself.

Except there are repeated parts in the fluff where they do die. So yes, they are sending children off to their deaths, with only a few individuals passing.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except, No Modern Military Turns Its Recruits Into Post-Human Monstrosities, so you’re argument is a non-starter.

Except there's still a grueling selection process to go through, so no, my argument is not a non-starter, as the recruits are still very much human when they are required to cross through a desert, ash wastes, live on a deathworld or survive in a vacuum.
You don't just pump an aspirant full of geneseed and then start training them, there's a selection process to go through first to make sure that they can even survive receiving the geneseed to begin with, as its such a huge investment of precious resources.
This isn't captain America where all you need is a little injection of a wonder drug, there's more to it than that.


Gruelling that a pre or barely pubescent kid can survive. Y’know, before sexual dimorphism has really manifested itself.

Except there are repeated parts in the fluff where they do die. So yes, they are sending children off to their deaths, with only a few individuals passing.

You're missing the point. They're saying that puberty hasn't kicked in yet, so sex is irrelevant at that point. Unless you're trying to make the case that a prepubescent boy suffering from radiation poisoning is just infinitely stronger than a well-fed, well-trained girl from a planet known for its population's impressive physical strength.


EDIT: And again, it feels like malnutrition and radiation poisoning vs healthy diet and curated exercise should probably be a bigger factor than sex even after puberty. You're saying marines would rather recruit from a skeleton in the cancer ward than recruit an olympic athlete because the skeleton is going to beat the olympic athlete at sports...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:25:04



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in fi
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except there are repeated parts in the fluff where they do die. So yes, they are sending children off to their deaths, with only a few individuals passing.


Some certainly will die. But the tests are generally not pass or fail binaries. Many chapters recruit failed aspirants as chapter serfs, which sorta implies that those failed aspirants are alive...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:21:48


   
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 Crimson wrote:
Given that marine aspirants are indeed kids, and often recruited from populations with way less than ideal living conditions, I'd surmise that the testing is more about grit, fighting spirit and other such psychological aspects.

That would explain the death world camping trips and crossing deserts, yes.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






So you agree that physical strength is not the primary trait that Astartes aspirants are selected for and that it is instead the indomitable human spirit that is looked for, thereby determining that there is no real reason female aspirants couldn't be a thing?

   
Made in fi
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Given that marine aspirants are indeed kids, and often recruited from populations with way less than ideal living conditions, I'd surmise that the testing is more about grit, fighting spirit and other such psychological aspects.

That would explain the death world camping trips and crossing deserts, yes.


It indeed does.Those things would be utterly trivial to an actual marine, and probably quite a bit easier for a fit and healthy normal adult. But they're challenging to these kids. They will let the marines to see who will persevere, who will keep their cool, who has the willpower, courage and fighting spirit to be a marine.

   
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 Gert wrote:
So you agree that physical strength is not the primary trait that Astartes aspirants are selected for and that it is instead the indomitable human spirit that is looked for, thereby determining that there is no real reason female aspirants couldn't be a thing?


Eager to hear CthulhuSpy's answer to this.

If you want to claim that grit is the deciding factor, then surely we can agree that plenty of women have grit in spades.

If you want to claim that physical fitness is the deciding factor, then surely the poisoned, malnourished skeleton boy is going to be worse at sports than the trained-from-birth athlete girl. Especially before puberty, but probably after puberty too.

Not trying to put words in your (CthulhuSpy's) mouth, but it really feels like you're just trying to say that all boys are better at physical activities than all girls regardless of any other factors. And that's obviously absurd.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/28 19:39:25



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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ccs wrote:
Deathmosfear wrote:
Hi all. I'm going to share my opinion


Thanks for kicking this dead horse just to tell us that you don't have a real position on this subject.


I think I’ve made my "position" quite clear when I said that personally, I don’t like FSM and won’t include them in my lore. As I mentioned, I’m an old-school player and won’t get into debates about whether the lack of female Astartes is due to political reasons or if it makes sense within the 'science' of 40K. That’s just how it used to be, and that’s how it will remain for me.

I also don’t play with Primaris or Primarchs, and I have nothing against their sale—I simply don’t care about the current lore. Cheers.
   
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The Land of Humidity

Deathmosfear wrote:
ccs wrote:
Deathmosfear wrote:
Hi all. I'm going to share my opinion


Thanks for kicking this dead horse just to tell us that you don't have a real position on this subject.


I think I’ve made my "position" quite clear when I said that personally, I don’t like FSM and won’t include them in my lore. As I mentioned, I’m an old-school player and won’t get into debates about whether the lack of female Astartes is due to political reasons or if it makes sense within the 'science' of 40K. That’s just how it used to be, and that’s how it will remain for me.

I also don’t play with Primaris or Primarchs, and I have nothing against their sale—I simply don’t care about the current lore. Cheers.


And that's cool for you, it's your hobby, you can play it how you like.

We have an entire thread devoted to playing older editions of the games for Games Workshop.

No one us saying you have to accept anything in any of the canon.

What I mean by this is that there are a lot of people wish Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau was not the name of 40k's first Inquisitor ["A tireless exposer of psychic misdeeds and genetic deviance." Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, pg. 144], and choose play there version of 40k as very grimdark without the goofiness if the older editions.

But what is at stake here, is the telling of certain players that they can't play the game how they want.

The interests point is that this street goes two ways. Some really don't want this and some do.

A compromise could be, the Horus Heresy Space Marines are all male, while a later 40k discovery (Ala Cawl) could have female Marines.


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on the forum. Obviously

 Gert wrote:
So you agree that physical strength is not the primary trait that Astartes aspirants are selected for and that it is instead the indomitable human spirit that is looked for, thereby determining that there is no real reason female aspirants couldn't be a thing?


Yes, mental and physical fortitude would be sought after in a marine candidate. Hence why all of their tests require both components. I mentioned SEAL earlier for a reason, as that also requires both competences and to a lesser degree would be a close approximation of marine selection (well, except without high fatality rate). You don't need to be a weight lifter to be a SEAL either.

As for the Blood Angel recruitment, if their recruits are truly as irradiated as claimed (which I doubt, as that would be silly. Its more likely that the healthiest individuals among the population would undergo the process, as that would already show a degree of resilience) then that is just poor writing as you'd need a wee bit more than just grit to pass that selection process. Remember that it's not just a desert, they have to dodge monsters and cross canyons as well. The Indomitable Human Spirit will not save one from gravity after failing to jump a gap.

But then again, GW can't seem to decide if the recruits are children, adolescents or old enough to drink and wrestle a space wolf, or be incarcerated in a space prison, so I suppose poor and inconsistent writing is just the norm for marines.



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Peace through power!

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Gert wrote:
So you agree that physical strength is not the primary trait that Astartes aspirants are selected for and that it is instead the indomitable human spirit that is looked for, thereby determining that there is no real reason female aspirants couldn't be a thing?


Yes, mental and physical fortitude would be sought after in a marine candidate. Hence why all of their tests require both components. I mentioned SEAL earlier for a reason, as that also requires both competences and to a lesser degree would be a close approximation of marine selection (well, except without high fatality rate). You don't need to be a weight lifter to be a SEAL either.

As for the Blood Angel recruitment, if their recruits are truly as irradiated as claimed (which I doubt, as that would be silly. Its more likely that the healthiest individuals among the population would undergo the process, as that would already show a degree of resilience) then that is just poor writing as you'd need a wee bit more than just grit to pass that selection process. Remember that it's not just a desert, they have to dodge monsters and cross canyons as well. The Indomitable Human Spirit will not save one from gravity after failing to jump a gap.

But then again, GW can't seem to decide if the recruits are children, adolescents or old enough to drink and wrestle a space wolf, or be incarcerated in a space prison, so I suppose poor and inconsistent writing is just the norm for marines.




They can’t have completed puberty, ironically for the same in universe reason they can’t currently be girls.

40k just seems to have particularly precocious children, cf also Necromunda, presumably for the extra grimdarkness…

Fwiw the old Rites of Initiation said the optimum start age was 10-12 - generally pre-puberty, especially for boys.
   
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 Lathe Biosas wrote:

But what is at stake here, is the telling of certain players that they can't play the game how they want.

And I agree, that's silly. If you want your custom chapter of valkyrie marines, sure whatever.
If you want mexican necrons, ok fine. Aussie Orks? I know a guy who did that and it was funny.
The point of the game is to convert your models as you want.

However, it goes both ways. One cannot demand that the fluff accommodates their custom army.
As much as I prefer that the necrons still served the C'tan, they don't and the current fluff is the current fluff. Even if its bad and lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord Zarkov wrote:


40k just seems to have particularly precocious children, cf also Necromunda, presumably for the extra grimdarkness…

Fwiw the old Rites of Initiation said the optimum start age was 10-12 - generally pre-puberty, especially for boys.

That is just weird. I was reading the marine recruitment practices and I kept thinking "these cannot be 10 year olds, that one is drinking space wolf ale and Marneus Calgar probably elbow dropped a child at one point".
I suspect the authors wrote as if they were adolescents to young adults, but forgot that they are meant to be 10-12 year olds.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2024/12/28 21:04:12


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 Lathe Biosas wrote:

The interests point is that this street goes two ways. Some really don't want this and some do.
A compromise could be, the Horus Heresy Space Marines are all male, while a later 40k discovery (Ala Cawl) could have female Marines.


That's not a compromise, that's a profound choice.

The only true compromise is that female marines lobbyists play Adepta Sororitas instead ?
   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That is just weird. I was reading the marine recruitment practices and I kept thinking "these cannot be 10 year olds, that one is drinking space wolf ale and Marneus Calgar probably elbow dropped a child at one point".
I suspect the authors wrote as if they were adolescents to young adults, but forgot that they are meant to be 10-12 year olds.


Each Chapter has their own methods, and the Space Wolves aren't the most straight-edged Chapter out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Siegfriedfr wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:

The interests point is that this street goes two ways. Some really don't want this and some do.
A compromise could be, the Horus Heresy Space Marines are all male, while a later 40k discovery (Ala Cawl) could have female Marines.


That's not a compromise, that's a profound choice.

The only true compromise is that female marines lobbyists play Adepta Sororitas instead ?


Tell me you haven't read the whole thread without telling me you haven't read the whole thread. Short version: Sororitas aren't a compromise because they're explicitly NOT Astartes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/28 21:19:38


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 BorderCountess wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That is just weird. I was reading the marine recruitment practices and I kept thinking "these cannot be 10 year olds, that one is drinking space wolf ale and Marneus Calgar probably elbow dropped a child at one point".
I suspect the authors wrote as if they were adolescents to young adults, but forgot that they are meant to be 10-12 year olds.


Each Chapter has their own methods, and the Space Wolves aren't the most straight-edged Chapter out there.

Yeah, but isn't the alcohol they make on fenris like, super strong though? I'm not even sure most adults outside of Fenris can handle it. It's probably not actual Fenrisian ale because that's meant to be fatal to humans, but still, a 10 year drinking that stuff?
Even if they aren't straight edged, the space wolves still use gene seed (albeit with the Canis Helix mutation), which logically should require the same ages as everyone else. So if they do take recruits at an older age (which is what the fluff seems to imply, given that they walk into long houses and pick fights with the warriors there to see who's worthy), then they shouldn't work.

So yeah, I'm not even sure the writers know what age the recruits are meant to be be, because it's wildly inconsistent and doesn't even make sense if you try to analyze it logically.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/28 21:52:12


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